Why Are People Blaming the ASG?

[sturt]

...for a complete unknown variable: ie, that a Greek team would consider Chilz so valuable that they would pay $11 mil/yr to get him.

Everything else worked out perfectly. The team offered a fair number, and by all accounts, the best number that Chilz could get. His options were severly limited, if he had any other NBA options at all.

Why is that so hard to fathom?

Because the lynchmob has torches lit, and are looking for someone to pay... and when you're looking for someone to pay, class envy (characterized by the idea that these rich people are all numbskulls who have money only because they inherited it) is always an acceptable vice.

Embarrassing.

[TroyMcClure]

Sturt, it's naive to say that europe was an "unknown variable". It's also a little cheap and position supporting. You state it as fact. When, in actual fact, it's just your opinion. How do you know what variables they are aware of or not?

What's embarrassing is offering these guys one bit of quarter. They deserve none. Seriously, there's only like a mountain range of evidence against them.

What is your point, exactly? Are you saying we are on the right track, run by competent individuals who can overcome unforseen obstacles?

[sturt]

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Sturt, it's naive to say that europe was an "unknown variable". It's also a little cheap and position supporting. You state it as fact. When, in actual fact, it's just your opinion. How do you know what variables they are aware of or not?

What's embarrassing is offering these guys one bit of quarter. They deserve none. Seriously, there's only like a mountain range of evidence against them.

What is your point, exactly? Are you saying we are on the right track, run by competent individuals who can overcome unforseen obstacles?

Troy, in truth, what do we know about anything? Evidence is just that, and until the perceiver knits together the evidence according to the assumptions they prefer to use, there is no cogent theory that anyone has to offer. Translation: your "mountain range" of evidence is largely this fact and that fact with filler in-between to get to the conclusions you've already preconceived.

But here's the thing... we all do that. Not just you. Not just me. None of us have secret cameras hanging in Philips, in Washington and in Boston. None of us have PIs tailing the comings and goings and monitoring the cell phone calls b/t players , players agents, Sund, and ASG.

So... what we're left with is to interpret the news reports we receive.

But you appear to want to blow this up (ie, the "right track" comment) as if it's another mountain top in your mountain range. However, in reality, you've just thrown a bunch of mud, rock and dirt... created some more filler.

I don't look at this in such a skewed way, but merely evaluate it on the merits of what is reported. I like my way of evaluation better than yours. It's conceivable I could still be wrong, certainly, but I like the chances that the place where I'm standing is solid: To wit... (a) ASG calculated that waiting until this off-season would put the Hawks in the best position to retain Josh's services under a contract that was cap-friendly, (b) Josh got an offer just above the MLE, © Josh had limited or no alternatives in the NBA, (d) there was no reason to anticipate that there would be any interest beyond the NBA -- no American player had ever left the NBA for a European team and no European team had ever signed an American 6th man to a contract that most NBA starters don't get.

I also think that there's an awful lot of people who tend to come to these things thinking with your way of thinking who aren't thinking like you are... and that should give you some pause for thought, though I'm inclined to think it might not.

[Guest Walter]

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Sturt, it's naive to say that europe was an "unknown variable".

Name the last NBA player offered $11 mil per year for any player much less a lsightly better than MLE player.

You can't. You never conceived of this possibility until it was a reality. THAT is an unknown variable.

The most important part is even if we had known about it this offseason we shouldn't have done anything differently. We offered a reasonable deal, the most JC could expect to get in the NBA. It was still vastly lower than the overseas one. What would YOU have done differently even if you had foreseen this (which you didn't).

W

[exodus]

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Sturt, it's naive to say that europe was an "unknown variable".

Name the last NBA player offered $11 mil per year for any player much less a lsightly better than MLE player.

You can't. You never conceived of this possibility until it was a reality. THAT is an unknown variable.

The most important part is even if we had known about it this offseason we shouldn't have done anything differently. We offered a reasonable deal, the most JC could expect to get in the NBA. It was still vastly lower than the overseas one. What would YOU have done differently even if you had foreseen this (which you didn't).

W

That is pretty much the way i see it. I can't see any fault on either side. Childress' agent did a good job finding an offer that Childress couldn't refuse and the ASG couldn't match. Childress is getting a truckload more money to play in fewer games. Can't beat that, especially given Childress' history of foot problems.

[Swish]

Sturt,

Well spoken. We really know relatively nothing about the situation.

There really is no reason to blame anyone-surely y'all know sports is a BUSINESS.

However, if anything blame leans toward ASG because of the f-ing pattern they set forth. Insanity.

[Diesel]

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The most important part is even if we had known about it this offseason we shouldn't have done anything differently. We offered a reasonable deal, the most JC could expect to get in the NBA. It was still vastly lower than the overseas one. What would YOU have done differently even if you had foreseen this (which you didn't).

I disagree.

When we signed Bibby...

We knew we would be over the cap this offseason.

AT THAT POINT

There was no need to not make Chillz an offer.

The whole having Chillz "find an offer" was definitely the wrong way to conduct business.

[Guest Walter]

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I disagree.

When we signed Bibby...

We knew we would be over the cap this offseason.

AT THAT POINT

There was no need to not make Chillz an offer.

BK was the GM at the time. Why didn't he make the offer? Frankly, why didn't BK get JC extended the year prior?

I don't believe you can make such mid season offers given there is a FAcy period designed for this and I doubt you want your players in the midst of negotiations during the season, but even if this were all OK, BK would be at fault for not doing so (and not resigning JS and JC earlier).

W

[JackB1]

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Their next move is crucial,. they have no wiggle room. the next move needs to be a winner to get some respect and fan support back???

The reality is that 95% of the fans that packed Philips for Games 3,4 & 7 aren't even aware of any of this. MAYBE they heard about Chillz leaving, but for the most part, only the die-hard fans (us) follow every off-season move with baited breath. As long as we have a better lineup to kick off the season then when we ended it, I will be happy.

[Packfill]

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...for a complete unknown variable: ie, that a Greek team would consider Chilz so valuable that they would pay $11 mil/yr to get him.

Everything else worked out perfectly. The team offered a fair number, and by all accounts, the best number that Chilz could get. His options were severly limited, if he had any other NBA options at all.

Why is that so hard to fathom?

Because the lynchmob has torches lit, and are looking for someone to pay... and when you're looking for someone to pay, class envy (characterized by the idea that these rich people are all numbskulls who have money only because they inherited it) is always an acceptable vice.

Embarrassing.

It is hard to fathom because of the ASG's history of bumbling. Maybe you forgot how they can't even get along and have aired their dirty laundry to the world to the detriment of the franchise. Let us also not forget their porr decisions in making managerial hires, and blocking trades that would help the franchise.

But you are right, the ASG is a bright beacon for hope in Atlanta.

[sturt]

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...for a complete unknown variable: ie, that a Greek team would consider Chilz so valuable that they would pay $11 mil/yr to get him.

Everything else worked out perfectly. The team offered a fair number, and by all accounts, the best number that Chilz could get. His options were severly limited, if he had any other NBA options at all.

Why is that so hard to fathom?

Because the lynchmob has torches lit, and are looking for someone to pay... and when you're looking for someone to pay, class envy (characterized by the idea that these rich people are all numbskulls who have money only because they inherited it) is always an acceptable vice.

Embarrassing.

It is hard to fathom because of the ASG's history of bumbling. Maybe you forgot how they can't even get along and have aired their dirty laundry to the world to the detriment of the franchise. Let us also not forget their porr decisions in making managerial hires, and blocking trades that would help the franchise.

But you are right, the ASG is a bright beacon for hope in Atlanta.

Look... you can beat down ASG as a terrible, horrendous, no-good-very-bad ownership group.

And, you can provide this factoid or that to support that conclusion.

BUT....

THIS is not one of those factoids.

There may be others that are.

But, THIS does not qualify as one.

This was a reasoned business decision on both sides.

It almost worked, and given every reasonable consideration, should have worked to the benefit of the Hawks organization (...and, we'll have to see of course, but still might after the sting of losing Chilz lessens with time).

I agree with W, and think he may have said it best... $11 mil/yr, regardless of where it came from, could not have been anticipated by anyone... perhaps with the excpetion of a Betazoid. (Been watching too much TNG lately, I guess. )

[AtLaS]

My biggest beef with the ASG is not how they handled the Childress situation, of which I think they handled well. My problem is that we have done absolutely NOTHING this entire offseason while watching other teams sign key role players and making small or big trades and upgrading their rosters. We have done NOTHING. Oh, I forgot, we worked out Kwame and Morris. That really inspires confidence.

We needed bench help like an addict needs a fix, and we've done NOTHING to aid that. I see all these other teams making moves while we stand pat. We've done nothing to get Smith resigned and have yet to make a respectable offer to him and he's our most important player save JJ. This will (once again) lead to us signing over the hill vets to fill out the roster, our bench will be sorry, and JJ will have to play 42+ minutes. We didn't even have a draft pick this year! We have done LESS this offseason than ANY other team in the NBA. It is an absolute disaster, especially considering the run we just had from the playoffs, you'd think they'd be eager to build off that, but no, it's the ASG.

Like I said, I will be SHOCKED if we make the playoffs. Absolutely shocked.

[sturt]

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My problem is that we have done absolutely NOTHING this entire offseason while watching other teams sign key role players and making small or big trades and upgrading their rosters. We have done NOTHING.

And why have they done nothing, AtLaS?

a) Because they're stupid and lazy

b) Because their hands were tied until they could conclude a deal (or not) with the Joshes

C'mon.

[AtLaS]

Name another team that has done less than us this offseason?

Regardless, we are over the cap. We will have the MLE if we do or don't resign the Joshes. So, why wait until the process is over? Not only that, taking the process slow as hell and not being eager to get either one signed while countless role players are finding new teams and we aren't going after any of them.

[TroyMcClure]

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My problem is that we have done absolutely NOTHING this entire offseason while watching other teams sign key role players and making small or big trades and upgrading their rosters. We have done NOTHING.

And why have they done nothing, AtLaS?

a) Because they're stupid and lazy

b) Because their hands were tied until they could conclude a deal (or not) with the Joshes

C'mon.

How were there hands tied? Oh, I see. You think low balling someone is the only way to go. So, in essence your hands are tied mentally, not actually. If the valued him so little, they should have been moving on someone else and forgotten about Childress. Now, they've low balled and lost time and a player.

Clearly, the answer is A. For more reasons than this one, obviously.

[TroyMcClure]

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Sturt, it's naive to say that europe was an "unknown variable".

Name the last NBA player offered $11 mil per year for any player much less a lsightly better than MLE player.

You can't. You never conceived of this possibility until it was a reality. THAT is an unknown variable.

The most important part is even if we had known about it this offseason we shouldn't have done anything differently. We offered a reasonable deal, the most JC could expect to get in the NBA. It was still vastly lower than the overseas one. What would YOU have done differently even if you had foreseen this (which you didn't).

W

Walt, you know how I feel about the ASG. And do I have to explain how I'm really not sad to see that 8 yr old j leave town? I'm saying this is a small world now. They should be aware of everything that is a threat to their business. Also, we've benefited vrtually nothing from the euros in the league the last decade or so. You can't act like scouting there is unimportant. Or who the scouts are.

To answer your question - I would have dumped Childress on someone many moons ago. I certainly would not have counted on the few things he does bring to the table and then be left without those.

[jerrywest]

I have never agreed with Walter more. That back surgeon must have done a miraculous job.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Sure I can't fault them for not re-signing Smoove. They would be crazy to try to match that.

Im angry with the whole Josh Smith situation. How can you not fork over the money and sign the home town kid?

They are trying to squeeze their pennies because Josh Smith has no leverage. But it's going to bite us in the ass if he signs a one year deal.

[ATLBob]

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I can't see any fault on either side. Childress' agent did a good job finding an offer that Childress couldn't refuse and the ASG couldn't match. Childress is getting a truckload more money to play in fewer games. Can't beat that, especially given Childress' history of foot problems.

You, sir, are a gentleman, and a scholar.

[Dsinner]

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My biggest beef with the ASG is not how they handled the Childress situation, of which I think they handled well. My problem is that we have done absolutely NOTHING this entire offseason while watching other teams sign key role players and making small or big trades and upgrading their rosters. We have done NOTHING. Oh, I forgot, we worked out Kwame and Morris. That really inspires confidence.

We needed bench help like an addict needs a fix, and we've done NOTHING to aid that. I see all these other teams making moves while we stand pat. We've done nothing to get Smith resigned and have yet to make a respectable offer to him and he's our most important player save JJ. This will (once again) lead to us signing over the hill vets to fill out the roster, our bench will be sorry, and JJ will have to play 42+ minutes. We didn't even have a draft pick this year! We have done LESS this offseason than ANY other team in the NBA. It is an absolute disaster, especially considering the run we just had from the playoffs, you'd think they'd be eager to build off that, but no, it's the ASG.

Like I said, I will be SHOCKED if we make the playoffs. Absolutely shocked.

Exactly, which if you believe Sund when he says "we weren't going to offer Josh more than market value" should put the perverbial finger pointed right at them. They knew they weren't going to pay Chillz what he wanted so they A)don't trade him to get something in return; B) Don't sign any FA's in case he walks.

It might not be ASG's fault Chillz took more money but it is definitly their fault they didn't plan for it.