Smith Vs Odom

[TheNorthCydeRises]

OFFENSE:

Better jumpshot?: Odom

Better post player?: Odom

Better inside finisher?: Odom

Better ball handler?: Odom

Better passer?: Odom

Better FT shooter?: Smith

Better 3-point shooter?: Odom

Better offensive rebounder?: Odom

DEFENSE

Better perimeter defender?: Smith

Better interior defender?: Smith

Better shot blocker?: Smith

Better defensive awareness to get steals/blocks/defections?: Smith

Better defensive rebounder?: Odom

Tougher player defensively?: Smith

INTANGIBLES

Hustles more?: Smith

Smarter player?: Odom

More coachable?: Odom

More likely to take over a game either offensively or defensively?: Smith

In the end, an Odom - Smith swap, just makes us a more potent offensive team. You lose a lot defensively with Smith, but you gain a lot offensively with Odom. If the Hawks are going to trade Smith, Odom is the guy I want.

Hawks w/Odom + Kwame or Randolph . . . minus Smith and Claxton

PG: Bibby ( 28 min ) - Law ( 20 min )

G: JJ ( 30 min ) - Evans ( 18 min )

F: Marvin ( 32 min ) - JJ ( 8 min ) - Evans ( 8 min )

PF: Odom ( 36 min ) - Horford ( 12 min )

C: Horford ( 24 min ) - Zaza ( 16 min ) - Kwa/Ran ( 8 min )

total minutes:

JJ - 38

Horford - 36

Odom - 36

Marvin - 32

Bibby - 28

Evans - 26

Law - 20

Zaza - 16

Kwa/Ran - 8

That's a good of a starting unit that you'll see in the East. Odom's ability to post up and most importantly, pass out of the post, would be a godsend for shooters like JJ and Bibby. It'll be up to the 3 main guys off the bench, to hold everything together when they sub in for a starter.

[Chris18]

Smoove is a better post player and finisher than Lamar but other than that your list is spot on.

It just doesn't make sense to trade Smoove because we're going to have to pay Lamar or whoever just as much money as Josh would make. The ASG is really doing making it hard to be a Hawks fan because of their unwillingness to spend money on our own players. What's going to happen with Marvin and Al when they come up for a big pay day or what about Joe's extension next summer? This has just become a lose-lose situation for Hawks fans and the ASG have proved themselves to be liars by saying they would do whatever it takes to get the Joshes back.

[AtLaS]

Odom just isn't a guy that's going to help us, especially not more than Smith. Let's also not forget that he's going to be 30. Odom is also a career 46% shooter (what Smith shot this season) from the field. Playing on a championship caliber team is why he shot better this season.

Odom just isn't a game changer. He can't score very well and he's not a good defender. He's a pretty good passer but he doesn't improve this team at all. Odom also averages almost 3 turnovers per game for his career, with last year of course being the outlier. Smith is a future all-star, Odom has never, and never will make an all-star team. HELL no to this trade.

[AtLaS]

Also, Odom is an expiring contract and will make almost 15 million next season. Why would they trade Smith to pay ODOM instead? That's just retarded if they did that, because Bibby and Zaza (almost 20 million) come off the books after the next season anyway.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Smoove is a better post player and finisher than Lamar but other than that your list is spot on.

No he's not. Smoove is a better open court dunker than Lamar. But Lamar's post up game and ability to drive and finish, is superior to Smith's.

It just doesn't make sense to trade Smoove because we're going to have to pay Lamar or whoever just as much money as Josh would make. The ASG is really doing making it hard to be a Hawks fan because of their unwillingness to spend money on our own players. What's going to happen with Marvin and Al when they come up for a big pay day or what about Joe's extension next summer? This has just become a lose-lose situation for Hawks fans and the ASG have proved themselves to be liars by saying they would do whatever it takes to get the Joshes back.

It's funny though Chris. After we took Boston to 7 games, all you heard on this board was that "we still got blown out in the 4 Boston road games . . . and we only won 37 games on the season". Whenever I brought up that we won 28 out of 44 home regular season and playoff games, people totally dismissed that, and still harped on the fact that we only won 37 games + 3 home playoff games. When I see comments like that, that tells me that the vast majority of Hawk fans weren't satisfied of what we did last year.

But when we decide to change the mix, everybody goes into panic mode. Everybody now wants to keep the team the same, just for the sake of keeping the guys here.

Well . . . what if changing the mix . . WORKS?

What if by adding veteran players who have been through playoff wars . . works BETTER for the Hawks?

I'm like a lot of people. I'd like to have seen these core group of guys stay together, and lead us back to being a perennially good team. But I'm also about winning. If the Hawks win, the fans will come. Josh Smith or Chill or JJ, for that matter, are not box office draws when they are losing. But when they started winning, people came to see them.

Don't act like the Hawks are going to lose a ton of fans if Smith leaves. We don't have a ton of fans in the first place. It's all about whether the Hawks start winning or not. If we start winning more than we lose. And if we continue to beat good to great teams at home, the fans WILL come out. Not to see one player, but to see the HAWKS.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Also, Odom is an expiring contract and will make almost 15 million next season. Why would they trade Smith to pay ODOM instead? That's just retarded if they did that, because Bibby and Zaza (almost 20 million) come off the books after the next season anyway.

Actually Atlas, I can name 2 reasons why they would do it:

1) to possibly work out an extension with Odom, that would pay him far less than what we'd have to pay Smith in the future.

or

2) to be a team with tons of cap room, when the summer of 2010 comes around, to make a play for some of the major FAs . . . like a Chris Bosh. Or even next year for a Carlos Boozer, if he opts out of his deal going into next summer.

Atlas, I think this organization is banking on Horford becoming "the man" at the 4. I think they believe that Horford and JJ could potentially be their "dynamic duo". To see if he can, you have to get Horford more touches and shots.

It's a huge gamble to believe that, and I'm not saying that they're right in possibly believing that. But it seems as if they're determined not to overpay for Smith, because he still does a lot of bad things as a player, that takes some of the shine off the good things he does.

[AtLaS]

It's all about whether the Hawks start winning or not.

Trading Smith for Odom (who is expiring) doesn't help us now or in the future since he won't be here.

[crimedog]

I gotta take issue with some of that stuff. For one, Odom has always been known as a flake - if he is smarter or more coachable its only because he's been in the league longer.

He's also only been a better finisher the past couple of seasons, before that he was comparable or worse than Smith now. He isn't a post player either, he is less of one than Smith even. He isolates at the top of the key usually and drives because he is a great ball-handler for his position.

Odom has rarely been an impact player and certainly doesn't have the tenacity that Josh does.

I understand that you would be OK with losing Josh if we got a good player back but I think you are off base with the evaluations.

[SmooveTheFuture]

Actually Atlas, I can name 2 reasons why they would do it:

1) to possibly work out an extension with Odom, that would pay him far less than what we'd have to pay Smith in the future.

or

2) to be a team with tons of cap room, when the summer of 2010 comes around, to make a play for some of the major FAs . . . like a Chris Bosh. Or even next year for a Carlos Boozer, if he opts out of his deal going into next summer.

Atlas, I think this organization is banking on Horford becoming "the man" at the 4. I think they believe that Horford and JJ could potentially be their "dynamic duo". To see if he can, you have to get Horford more touches and shots.

It's a huge gamble to believe that, and I'm not saying that they're right in possibly believing that. But it seems as if they're determined not to overpay for Smith, because he still does a lot of bad things as a player, that takes some of the shine off the good things he does.

LOL Lamar Odom the guy no one wants this guy is a career underachiver who plays little to no defense. WHy are the lakers looking to trade him if he so much better then Smith he was no where to be found in the playoffs. The guy was suppose to be alot better then he was. I will go on the record and say Smiths career will be 10x better then Odoms has Odom even made an allstar team. You would think the way you are talking about him he is the next big thing.

[Buzzard]

Odom just isn't a guy that's going to help us, especially not more than Smith. Let's also not forget that he's going to be 30. Odom is also a career 46% shooter (what Smith shot this season) from the field. Playing on a championship caliber team is why he shot better this season.

Odom just isn't a game changer. He can't score very well and he's not a good defender. He's a pretty good passer but he doesn't improve this team at all. Odom also averages almost 3 turnovers per game for his career, with last year of course being the outlier. Smith is a future all-star, Odom has never, and never will make an all-star team. HELL no to this trade.

He will be 30 next year and with an expiring contract. Odum will be a hot FA next year. The type of player that could help a team get over the top and at 30 he will not be a max player.

I do not like this trade simply because we are not guaranteed of keeping Odum for longer than one season. If I had to pick between which player I think is better, Odum gets the nod. He has a much higher Basketball IQ than Smoove, a better shooter, fundamentally more sound, and just as talented but in different areas; he also has a better temperment and is totally unselfish.

Put it to you in different terms: He spent 4 years in Clipperland and still maintained good production and a great attitude. Once he became available, not one but two HOF coaches (Riley and Jackson) wanted him on their team.

If we could land Odum and keep him, go for it. But if he is just going to walk next year, I think there are better offers out there...

Edited July 27, 2008 by jamesdcrockett

[AtLaS]

1) to possibly work out an extension with Odom, that would pay him far less than what we'd have to pay Smith in the future.

After Odom is expiring next summer, he'll be 31 going into the next season. Why would we give up Smith to lock up Odom at that age for the long term, even if slightly cheaper? He'll still be a UFA and will go for as much money as he can possibly get, so we'll still have to pay a decent amount for him. And, he may not even like Atlanta at all. I don't think we'd make the playoffs with Odom either.

2) to be a team with tons of cap room, when the summer of 2010 comes around, to make a play for some of the major FAs . . . like a Chris Bosh. Or even next year for a Carlos Boozer, if he opts out of his deal going into next summer.

We've also got to resign JJ that offseason. I don't see the ASG forking out 2 max or near max contracts in one offseason, with Horford/Law due to be an RFA the next summer in 2011.

Atlas, I think this organization is banking on Horford becoming "the man" at the 4. I think they believe that Horford and JJ could potentially be their "dynamic duo". To see if he can, you have to get Horford more touches and shots.

So, because they think Horford will develop, they trade a 22 year old future all-star for an expiring contract? That's just dumb, and even worse justification.

[Chris18]

No he's not. Smoove is a better open court dunker than Lamar. But Lamar's post up game and ability to drive and finish, is superior to Smith's.

It's funny though Chris. After we took Boston to 7 games, all you heard on this board was that "we still got blown out in the 4 Boston road games . . . and we only won 37 games on the season". Whenever I brought up that we won 28 out of 44 home regular season and playoff games, people totally dismissed that, and still harped on the fact that we only won 37 games + 3 home playoff games. When I see comments like that, that tells me that the vast majority of Hawk fans weren't satisfied of what we did last year.

But when we decide to change the mix, everybody goes into panic mode. Everybody now wants to keep the team the same, just for the sake of keeping the guys here.

Well . . . what if changing the mix . . WORKS?

What if by adding veteran players who have been through playoff wars . . works BETTER for the Hawks?

I'm like a lot of people. I'd like to have seen these core group of guys stay together, and lead us back to being a perennially good team. But I'm also about winning. If the Hawks win, the fans will come. Josh Smith or Chill or JJ, for that matter, are not box office draws when they are losing. But when they started winning, people came to see them.

Don't act like the Hawks are going to lose a ton of fans if Smith leaves. We don't have a ton of fans in the first place. It's all about whether the Hawks start winning or not. If we start winning more than we lose. And if we continue to beat good to great teams at home, the fans WILL come out. Not to see one player, but to see the HAWKS.

Lamar doesn't have a better post game than Smoove. If you've ever watched him play you would see that he can't even post up guards let alone any forwards.

People love to complain about everything, wether good or bad, because this is Atlanta sports and thats what its all about. Losing Smoove will not lead to more winning and it will lead to less fans attending the games next season.

[AtLaS]

I do not like this trade simply because we are not guaranteed of keeping Odum for longer than one season. If I had to pick between which player I think is better, Odum gets the nod. He has a much higher Basketball IQ than Smoove, a better shooter, fundamentally more sound, and just as talented but in different areas; he also has a better temperment and is totally unselfish.

He's also 8 years older, he SUCKS at defense, and he's not an impact player.

Let's see, outside of last season, Odom is a career 46% shooter. Smith shot 45.7 this past year. For his career, Odom averages 2.88 turnovers per game. Smith averaged 3.02 this past year. So, your "areas" that Odom is better, aren't even significant really, especially not given the defensive difference between the two, and their age difference. This past season, Odom had an outlier FG% and TO rate because he was on a championship squad and his role was lessened, thus increasing his efficiency. Don't let one season fool you.

Put it to you in different terms: He spent 4 years in Clipperland and still maintained good production and a great attitude. Once he became available, not one but two HOF coaches (Riley and Jackson) wanted him on their team.

WHAT? Odom's efficiency numbers as a Clipper were terrible, MUCH worse than Smith's. THREE of those four seasons he shot 43% or less, and he averaged over 3.3 turnovers per game in 3 of those 4 seasons. You have complaints about Smith? Odom was much worse.

Edited July 27, 2008 by AtLaS

[Buzzard]

LOL Lamar Odom the guy no one wants this guy is a career underachiver who plays little to no defense. WHy are the lakers looking to trade him if he so much better then Smith he was no where to be found in the playoffs. The guy was suppose to be alot better then he was. I will go on the record and say Smiths career will be 10x better then Odoms has Odom even made an allstar team. You would think the way you are talking about him he is the next big thing.

Only two HOF coaches have wanted him. You are a Smoove fan and that is fine; but don't try and say Lamar Odum is not wanted or talented. Makes you look like you have a real low BBall IQ. He is the best rebounding and passing combo SF/PF in the game. Hell he played PG in clipperland for about 30 games one season. Only Garnett is in the same league as Odum right now when it comes to 6'10" passers who can also rebound at 10 or more boards a night....

[Chris18]

Also there is a reason that Lakers fans call him Lamar Odumb.

[Zone034life]

Like Atlas said Odom is not an impact player. He looked much better as the third option in L.A than the second. First the Heat realized they had to get rid of him to take the next step now the Lakers have come to that realization. I would rather have Marion than Odom.

Trading a young developing player for an old expiring contract is just as bad as the Gasol trade. I would rather have Smoove accept the QO instead of having Odom for one season. Maybe they could come to an agreement over the course of the season.

[Buzzard]

He's also 8 years older, he SUCKS at defense, and he's not an impact player.

Let's see, outside of last season, Odom is a career 46% shooter. Smith shot 45.7 this past year. For his career, Odom averages 2.88 turnovers per game. Smith averaged 3.02 this past year. So, your "areas" that Odom is better, aren't even significant really, especially not given the defensive difference between the two, and their age difference. This past season, Odom had an outlier FG% and TO rate because he was on a championship squad and his role was lessened, thus increasing his efficiency. Don't let one season fool you.

WHAT? Odom's efficiency numbers as a Clipper were terrible, MUCH worse than Smith's. THREE of those four seasons he shot 43% or less, and he averaged over 3.3 turnovers per game in 3 of those 4 seasons. You have complaints about Smith? Odom was much worse.

Don't pick which years you want to compare. Just compare career numbers vs career numbers. Odums numbers have beeen accumualted over a longer span and they are still better than Smooves. God help us if we ever ask Smoove to bring the ball up the court like they did Odum in Clipperland.

[Buzzard]

Also there is a reason that Lakers fans call him Lamar Odumb.

And Smoove is a genius as he calmly chucks threes while only hitting 25%...Come on! I said Odum was a better/smarter player; it is the truth. I don't want Odum though for just a one year rental; that would be just as dumb as Smoove shooting a three...

[DrReality]

If he is so great why are they trading him. I don't buy it. I think we need someone who will be here for us in the future. Like Maxiel.

[Buzzard]

If he is so great why are they trading him. I don't buy it. I think we need someone who will be here for us in the future. Like Maxiel.

Maybe Jackson sees Smoove as his next Grant or Rodman. I have a hard time buying that one as well. I can imagine Kobe going ballistic on Smoove right now everytime he chucks one his prayers in a tight game....

Edited July 27, 2008 by jamesdcrockett