Marvin Back In School @ Unc & Working Out With May

[Diesel]

Sure, lets look at his PER rating and compare it to our best player, Joe Johnson.

Marvin

2006 PER = 12.26

2007 PER = 14.53

Difference + 2.27

JJ

2006 PER = 19.56

2007 PER = 17.34

Difference - 2.22

So how is it that Marvin can spend his summer going to school and playing pick up games and JJ can work out with the USA Team and yet Marvin got better and JJ got worse?

A closer look at Marvin's PER numbers reveals that he improved in FG%, FT%, Points per 40 minutes, Rebounds per 40 minutes, True Shooting Percentage, TO, Usage, and Rebound Rate. The only areas that he didn't improve in are Assits per 40 minutes and Assist Ratio.

SEASON	FG%	FT%	[b]P/40	[/b]R/40	A/40	TS%	Ast	TO	Usg	Reb	PER

2005-06 	.443	.747	13.7	[b]7.8	[/b]1.3	52.3	8.0	10.5	15.3	11.8	12.24

2006-07 	.433	.815	15.4	6.2	2.2	51.0	11.3	11.9	18.5	9.3	12.26

2007-08 	.462	.822	17.1	[b]6.6	[/b]2.0	54.0	10.1	9.3	18.6	9.6	14.53[/code]


Your turn.



It's embarrassing that Marvin has only scored +4 more ppg going from Rookie year to 3rd year.


You see the thing to understand is this...


[b]Marvin Williams..[/b]


Year..............GP........GS......MPG

2005-2006:...79..........7........24.7

2006-2007:...64 ........63......34.0

2007-2008:...80..........80......34.6


You talk about JJ as if he played about the same amount of time as Marvin?

JJ's 2nd and 3rd year =[b] 60 [/b]starts....

Marvin's 2nd and 3rd year = [b]143[/b] starts...


JJ's 2nd and 3rd year = [b]75[/b] games...

Marvin's 2nd and 3rd year = [b]144[/b] games.


What can you say about a guy who plays 2 times as much??



You should be comparing Marvin to the likes of Amare?



Or what about Melo?


The point is Marvin has been given everything he needs to be a better player and we're seeing nothing major.

[Dsinner]

Admit that your bias is preventing you to be rational about what Marvin's up to this summer and last summer.

And it seems your UNC fandom is preventing you from being logical about this. So, according to you (and me as well) there really is no way to determine what player(s) he is working out with. The article only mentioned Sean May making it impossible to conclude if anyone else was involved in his workouts. But commonsense would tell you that even though Michael Jordan and Rasheed play there during the off-season since they were not mentioned they probably weren't there. Don't you think that had any real Tar Heel been there it would have been mentioned? Since May was mentioned I'm going to assume that was the best there at that time. Now I know I'm simply assuming (like D and Walt) but it's much more logical to assume this than assuming the likes of Jordan and co were there with Marv. I'd also like to believe that Marv is smart enough to know had he been working out with anyone superior he would have mentioned them. Although he does go to UNC so it's possible it didn't even cross his mind. :grimace:

Again, I don't care about what Marv does during his off-season but it seems a bit hypocritical to accuse someone of assuming over an article when that's exactly what you are doing. Trouble is, the intial assumption seems to be the most logical whether right or wrong.

[Dsinner]

The problem is that no one here has any evidence that Marvin ISN'T focusing on basketball! There are 24 hours in a day. You CAN take a few classes AND work on your game. College athletes do it constantly, and many have far better work ethic than professional players.

Many pro athletes run full time business on the side. You simply can't be working on basketball 100% of the minutes you're awake, because you'd literally kill yourself.

He wasn't on one of those rosters becuase that random internet poster didn't have all the rosters handy, and that particular summer league has players that come and go depending on their summer schedules. I can't find the link, but there were a total of 8 teams in that league, and one of the rosters had 17 guys on it. I have no idea how many agmes any of those guys listed actually played in or will play in.

It was just one example of what happens in the RTP community in the offseason, because apparently many posters seem to think they're all just playing playstation and watching spongebob.

Here's the real problem. Let's say Marv truly is working on his game as much as some of you think even though..."YOU JUST DON"T KNOW", either.

It seems, given Marv's lackluster improvment on his skillsets, you Marvin apologists would WANT him to be goofing off during his summers. I mean, if he's working as hard as some of you think he is and he's only improved his jump shot maybe that says more about his "talent" than his "heart".

It's really a lose-lose situation for you guys at this point. Either he is working on his game, and it still is average at best or he isn't working on his game and he "could" get better. Either way Marv either has poor-average work ethic or he has poor-to average skills. Regardless I don't want him on the roster.

[Traceman]

Well I'm sure there are plenty of top-notch players who play at some point during the year at the Hill. However, I'm willing to bet if he had been practicing with anyone of significance the article would have included that athlete. Do you really think they'd have given May ink over someone currently in the NBA? I mean seriously. Bottom line is Marv is working out with the likes of Sean May and probably no-one much better. It's common sense that had any of those guys you listed in previous posts been practicing with Marv, either Marv would have mentioned them, or the interviewer would have. And if Marv simply failed to mention them than no piece of paper is going to cover-up his real I.Q.

I'm no fan of Marv but I also don't care if he's getting his degree during the offseason. That's his choice as a human-being. However, that doesn't blind me to the fact that he's chosing that over a hundered other things that could be helping his NBA career. Whether you think it's right or wrong it is still a fact, regardless of how you'd like to spin it.

Wow. Just wow. Do you guys REALLY hate Marv this much are are you really this dense. I'm having a hard time figuring out which it is. The article was NOT focusing on their workouts, the article was focusing on the fact that they were back in school. As for May, first of all, he IS in the NBA, he plays for the Bobcats. He is just trying to recover from an injury. Second, he plays for the local team where the article was written. The article was written more about him than Marvin.

As for the workouts, the article simply said that the two of them were pushing each other in workouts and in the classroom. It was NOT focusing on what their workouts consist of.

Sheedera's source regarding the fact that Marvin is playing some in Stackhouse's pro-am league is from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOURCE. If you weren't so eager to criticize Marv, that would have been obvious. WHO KNOWS whether he is working out with the guys in the pro-am league but he is obviously playing with and against them.

Taking jabs at Marv's IQ is quite hilarious to me. Marv is obviously a very intelligent guy which is probably why he sees the value of continuing his education. Suggesting that him not mentioning who he was working out with in an article that was about the fact that he was continuing his education makes me question your IQ more than his.

As for him choosing his education over his NBA career, that is ludicrous. He is choosing his education over sitting around drinking, smoking weed, playing video games and chasing women which is what a SIGNIFICANT number of NBA players are doing right now during the off season.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Traceman

[Traceman]

It's embarrassing that Marvin has only scored +4 more ppg going from Rookie year to 3rd year.

You see the thing to understand is this...

Marvin Williams..

Year..............GP........GS......MPG

2005-2006:...79..........7........24.7

2006-2007:...64 ........63......34.0

2007-2008:...80..........80......34.6

You talk about JJ as if he played about the same amount of time as Marvin?

JJ's 2nd and 3rd year = 60 starts....

Marvin's 2nd and 3rd year = 143 starts...

JJ's 2nd and 3rd year = 75 games...

Marvin's 2nd and 3rd year = 144 games.

What can you say about a guy who plays 2 times as much??

You should be comparing Marvin to the likes of Amare?

Or what about Melo?

The point is Marvin has been given everything he needs to be a better player and we're seeing nothing major.

First of all, Marvin scored 8.5 ppg as a rookie and 14.8 ppg last year. That is a difference of 6.30 ppg. Where is the 4 ppg differential coming from?

Second, That 6.30 ppg differential is only .40 less than the 6.70 ppg differential that Smoove had from his rookie year to his 3rd year.

Third, that 6.30 ppg differential is 3.40 MORE than the 2.90 differential that Chillz had from his rookie year to his 3rd year (Chillz ppg differential from his rookie year to his FOURTH year was only 1.8 ppg).

Fourth, what he heck are you talking about with regard to JJ? The comparison was of their PER's from 06-07 to 07-08. Marvin's PER improved after he went to summer school and worked out at UNC. JJ's got worse after he played for Team USA. There may be many reasons that it worked out that way but that is a fact.

[Diesel]

First of all, Marvin scored 8.5 ppg as a rookie and 14.8 ppg last year. That is a difference of 6.30 ppg. Where is the 4 ppg differential coming from?

Second, That 6.30 ppg differential is only .40 less than the 6.70 ppg differential that Smoove had from his rookie year to his 3rd year.

Third, that 6.30 ppg differential is 3.40 MORE than the 2.90 differential that Chillz had from his rookie year to his 3rd year (Chillz ppg differential from his rookie year to his FOURTH year was only 1.8 ppg).

Fourth, what he heck are you talking about with regard to JJ? The comparison was of their PER's from 06-07 to 07-08. Marvin's PER improved after he went to summer school and worked out at UNC. JJ's got worse after he played for Team USA. There may be many reasons that it worked out that way but that is a fact.

So nice of you to ignore Minutes per game.

If you increase most players minutes per game by 2/5, you can expect about that same amount of increased points.

[Dsinner]

Wow. Just wow. Do you guys REALLY hate Marv this much are are you really this dense. I'm having a hard time figuring out which it is. The article was NOT focusing on their workouts, the article was focusing on the fact that they were back in school. As for May, first of all, he IS in the NBA, he plays for the Bobcats. He is just trying to recover from an injury. Second, he plays for the local team where the article was written. The article was written more about him than Marvin.

As for the workouts, the article simply said that the two of them were pushing each other in workouts and in the classroom. It was NOT focusing on what their workouts consist of.

Sheedera's source regarding the fact that Marvin is playing some in Stackhouse's pro-am league is from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SOURCE. If you weren't so eager to criticize Marv, that would have been obvious. WHO KNOWS whether he is working out with the guys in the pro-am league but he is obviously playing with and against them.

Taking jabs at Marv's IQ is quite hilarious to me. Marv is obviously a very intelligent guy which is probably why he sees the value of continuing his education. Suggesting that him not mentioning who he was working out with in an article that was about the fact that he was continuing his education makes me question your IQ more than his.

As for him choosing his education over his NBA career, that is ludicrous. He is choosing his education over sitting around drinking, smoking weed, playing video games and chasing women which is what a SIGNIFICANT number of NBA players are doing right now during the off season.

Funny how you laugh at me questioning Marv's intelligence yet you question mine all the while proving your astute reading comprahension skills. Sure, May is technically in the NBA as of now. We can look back on that in the near future. 2nd I never questioned Marv's IQ (reading is fundamental). I said if Marv had been playing with someone better than Sean May and only mentioned May then he is in fact dense. Since I don't believe he is playing with anyone much better, the point becomes moot. You keep refering to Sheeds post(s) about all the big named players who play at the Hill during the offseason. His post actually gives the rosters of the teams playing pick-up games and Marv's name isn't even in the same sentence as the others. In fact, it clearly indicates he isn't even on any of their teams. So how is he playing pick-up games with them if he's not even on a team? Again, back to that reading talent.

Unless you're Marvs dad or brother I'd suggest you take it easy insulting other poster's intelligence simply because they don't particularly care (basketball wise) for one of our players. Especially when YOU seem to be lacking in a particular department yourself.

[Admin]

Funny how you laugh at me questioning Marv's intelligence yet you question mine all the while proving your astute reading comprahension skills.

Awkward ...

[Dsinner]

Awkward ...

I didn't say the cat couldn't spell. I know I suck at it. LOL.

[Admin]

I didn't say the cat couldn't spell. I know I suck at it. LOL.

LOL fair enough. You made me laugh though so thanks.

[Guest Walter]

Please elaborate, in what ways are his game not any better?

MW had the most improvement to make since he entered and has improved very little per minute despite having the job and opportunity handed to him.

Frankly, he's hard for me to watch. I see a player who lacks the necessary fire and always will. Certainly given MW's "progress" to this point my long held position on him that he will be an average starting Sf in this league, is more accurate than your attempts at accentuating the positives of a top 2 pick underachiever. MW isn't a waste but he was only as talented at a 5-10 pick and works as hard as a 20 something pick. He simply couldn't care less about being great or else his first 7 offseasons within his chosen profession wouldn't b e DEVOTED to a history BA.

W

[Guest Walter]

First of all, Marvin scored 8.5 ppg as a rookie and 14.8 ppg last year. That is a difference of 6.30 ppg. Where is the 4 ppg differential coming from?

Even a HS rookie knows to prorate or per48 your MPG stats. This is simply disingenuous blubber on your part Trace. In fact, MW's overall production per minute was worse as a Sophomore than as a rookie. Just the applicable facts please.

W

[Admin]

MW had the most improvement to make since he entered and has improved very little per minute despite having the job and opportunity handed to him.

Frankly, he's hard for me to watch. I see a player who lacks the necessary fire and always will. Certainly given MW's "progress" to this point my long held position on him that he will be an average starting Sf in this league, is more accurate than your attempts at accentuating the positives of a top 2 pick underachiever. MW isn't a waste but he was only as talented at a 5-10 pick and works as hard as a 20 something pick. He simply couldn't care less about being great or else his first 7 offseasons within his chosen profession wouldn't b e DEVOTED to a history BA.

W

I definitely wouldn't say that he's not an underachiever relative to his draft position, but he is a lot more valuable than many of you give him credit for being and despite being such a disappointment to many of you, he continue to improve every year and I really expect this year to be his breakthrough season, much like Josh Smith had in his 4th season.

[Swish]

Dolfan,

Marvin has only increased since his rookie year by one board, one assist, and half a steal (not counting ppg of course). Josh made leaps and bounds. How is this comparable?

Maybe you are looking at intangibles and gut feeling which is fine but if you are searching for stats/facts for this theory I don't think they are there.

[ATLBob]

It's really a lose-lose situation for you guys at this point. Either he is working on his game, and it still is average at best or he isn't working on his game and he "could" get better. Either way Marv either has poor-average work ethic or he has poor-to average skills. Regardless I don't want him on the roster.

You must be Diesel's long lost love child.

[ATLBob]

I definitely wouldn't say that he's not an underachiever relative to his draft position, but he is a lot more valuable than many of you give him credit for being and despite being such a disappointment to many of you, he continue to improve every year and I really expect this year to be his breakthrough season, much like Josh Smith had in his 4th season.

But Dolfan, playing in the NBA is really really easy and he should have broken out by now like Chris Paul and Deron Williams have but only he hasn't because he doesn't care and doesn't have any heart cause he won't even spend his entire summer in the Hawks gym, everyone knows that Carolina's gym is no good. I can't even believe they still let him take classes, it's gonna take him like four more summers to finish, that's stupid, and anyway he's probably too stupid to take classes anyway, isn't he studying some kind of history, that's stupid, history isn't even a legitimate degree, its like pottery or something, and everyone know that pots are stupid, he might as well be touring with Amy Winehouse and smoking crack. History, I can't believe his nerve, besides, he's so clumsy that he probably can't even get out of bed in the morning to go to class, wow he really shouldn't even be in the NBA, he isn't athletic enough. If he was working on his game 14 hours day at the gym I go to he wouldn't be so clumsy, he's probably just clumsy because he's lazy, it's an excuse so that he doesn't have to be good cause he isn't, he only scored like 15 ppg last season, and everyone knows that's garbage, and he doesn;t want to be good becuase he's lazy and so he's clumsy and he only gets fouls called because he's so lazy driving in the lane, and then when there's contact he remembers that he forgot to bring his heart and the refs feel sorry for him becuase they're betting on the games and becuase he looks like daffy duck or Will Smith's brother Carlton and becuase he's so clumsy and always loses the ball and loses at life and is a loser and so they blow the whistle.

I don't even want him, I never ever did, we should cut him and sign some scrub who isn't on an NBA roster because at least they won't be clumsy and lazy and when they score six points in one game we can all talk about how great and athetic they look cause they don't even drive to the basket, but if they did, they would never lose it like Marvin, because he has no work ethic and he never will and I have nightmares about that.

[Traceman]

But Dolfan, playing in the NBA is really really easy and he should have broken out by now like Chris Paul and Deron Williams have but only he hasn't because he doesn't care and doesn't have any heart cause he won't even spend his entire summer in the Hawks gym, everyone knows that Carolina's gym is no good. I can't even believe they still let him take classes, it's gonna take him like four more summers to finish, that's stupid, and anyway he's probably too stupid to take classes anyway, isn't he studying some kind of history, that's stupid, history isn't even a legitimate degree, its like pottery or something, and everyone know that pots are stupid, he might as well be touring with Amy Winehouse and smoking crack. History, I can't believe his nerve, besides, he's so clumsy that he probably can't even get out of bed in the morning to go to class, wow he really shouldn't even be in the NBA, he isn't athletic enough. If he was working on his game 14 hours day at the gym I go to he wouldn't be so clumsy, he's probably just clumsy because he's lazy, it's an excuse so that he doesn't have to be good cause he isn't, he only scored like 15 ppg last season, and everyone knows that's garbage, and he doesn;t want to be good becuase he's lazy and so he's clumsy and he only gets fouls called because he's so lazy driving in the lane, and then when there's contact he remembers that he forgot to bring his heart and the refs feel sorry for him becuase they're betting on the games and becuase he looks like daffy duck or Will Smith's brother Carlton and becuase he's so clumsy and always loses the ball and loses at life and is a loser and so they blow the whistle.

I don't even want him, I never ever did, we should cut him and sign some scrub who isn't on an NBA roster because at least they won't be clumsy and lazy and when they score six points in one game we can all talk about how great and athetic they look cause they don't even drive to the basket, but if they did, they would never lose it like Marvin, because he has no work ethic and he never will and I have nightmares about that.

LOL! That pretty much sums it up!

[jhay610]

But Dolfan, playing in the NBA is really really easy and he should have broken out by now like Chris Paul and Deron Williams have but only he hasn't because he doesn't care and doesn't have any heart cause he won't even spend his entire summer in the Hawks gym, everyone knows that Carolina's gym is no good. I can't even believe they still let him take classes, it's gonna take him like four more summers to finish, that's stupid, and anyway he's probably too stupid to take classes anyway, isn't he studying some kind of history, that's stupid, history isn't even a legitimate degree, its like pottery or something, and everyone know that pots are stupid, he might as well be touring with Amy Winehouse and smoking crack. History, I can't believe his nerve, besides, he's so clumsy that he probably can't even get out of bed in the morning to go to class, wow he really shouldn't even be in the NBA, he isn't athletic enough. If he was working on his game 14 hours day at the gym I go to he wouldn't be so clumsy, he's probably just clumsy because he's lazy, it's an excuse so that he doesn't have to be good cause he isn't, he only scored like 15 ppg last season, and everyone knows that's garbage, and he doesn;t want to be good becuase he's lazy and so he's clumsy and he only gets fouls called because he's so lazy driving in the lane, and then when there's contact he remembers that he forgot to bring his heart and the refs feel sorry for him becuase they're betting on the games and becuase he looks like daffy duck or Will Smith's brother Carlton and becuase he's so clumsy and always loses the ball and loses at life and is a loser and so they blow the whistle.

I don't even want him, I never ever did, we should cut him and sign some scrub who isn't on an NBA roster because at least they won't be clumsy and lazy and when they score six points in one game we can all talk about how great and athetic they look cause they don't even drive to the basket, but if they did, they would never lose it like Marvin, because he has no work ethic and he never will and I have nightmares about that.

I nominate you as Chair/CEO/President of the Marvin Protection Force. Excellent post.

[Traceman]

Funny how you laugh at me questioning Marv's intelligence yet you question mine all the while proving your astute reading comprahension skills. Sure, May is technically in the NBA as of now. We can look back on that in the near future. 2nd I never questioned Marv's IQ (reading is fundamental). I said if Marv had been playing with someone better than Sean May and only mentioned May then he is in fact dense. Since I don't believe he is playing with anyone much better, the point becomes moot. You keep refering to Sheeds post(s) about all the big named players who play at the Hill during the offseason. His post actually gives the rosters of the teams playing pick-up games and Marv's name isn't even in the same sentence as the others. In fact, it clearly indicates he isn't even on any of their teams. So how is he playing pick-up games with them if he's not even on a team? Again, back to that reading talent.

Unless you're Marvs dad or brother I'd suggest you take it easy insulting other poster's intelligence simply because they don't particularly care (basketball wise) for one of our players. Especially when YOU seem to be lacking in a particular department yourself.

You never questoned Marv's IQ? You said:

It's common sense that had any of those guys you listed in previous posts been practicing with Marv, either Marv would have mentioned them, or the interviewer would have. And if Marv simply failed to mention them than no piece of paper is going to cover-up his real I.Q.

You then said:

2nd I never questioned Marv's IQ (reading is fundamental).

I don't have a reading comprehension problem, I think it is pretty damn obvious that you questioned Marv's IQ. In addition, semantics aside, calling the man "dense" is no different than questioning his IQ.

As for Sheed's post, it was pretty clear that Marv was playing against the other players thus the reason he was referred to as "other competition" along with Jamison and several other players.

I find it HILARIOUS that you have NO PROBLEM questioning Marv's intelligence without having so much as a conversation with him and yet you are apparently offended that someone might question your intelligence based on something that you actually said. I don't have to be Marv's dad or brother to take offense to you questioning his intelligence.

Finally, I didn't question your intelligence because you "don't particularly care (basketball wise) for one of our players." I could care less about that. My issue is that you questioned his intelligence when he is doing something that more young men in his situation SHOULD do. How ANYONE can find fault in someone trying to seek more knowledge is simply baffling to me.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Traceman

[Traceman]

So nice of you to ignore Minutes per game.

If you increase most players minutes per game by 2/5, you can expect about that same amount of increased points.

I was simply responding to what you SAID. You didn't say he only scored 4 more ppg WHEN YOU CONSIDER MPG PLAYED.