Why Overpay For Smoove...

[Johnnybravo4]

You can easily get a list of All-Stars who were fourth options or lower their freshman year in college on teams with quality depth. If you think Sean Mays was not an impact college basketball player then you are crazy. That is like blaming Grant Hill for being a lesser option on Duke's roster than Christian Laetner.

Marvin has dissappointed me too but when you have juniors who are good enough college players to be lottery picks, you are going to see a talented freshman who eventually becomes an NBA All-Star down the list of offensive options in many cases.

Another easy example, is Rasheed Wallace who was the fourth option as a freshman at UNC.

I actually was referring to Horford not Marvin. In Marvin's case we did the same thing with Demarr Johnson, picking a team's 4th option

[Buzzard]

Have been reading your post and wanted to know do you respect Smooves game at all? Do you appreciate his best qualities or revel in his shortcomings?

Me for instance am not a MW fan but I can respect him for his mid range jump shooting. It sounds to me you see Smoove as nothing more than a highlight reel, non jump shooting player with no substance to his game.

The player you describe Smoove to be doesn't even deserve 45 mil over 6 years.

Marvin has Diesel

Chillz has exodus

Now Smoove has jamesdcrockett

I agree with D about Marvins game but beg to differ with ex and crockett about Chillz and Smoove.

LOL on this one....cracked me up. Saying Smoove is worthy of only 60 mill because he failed to show significant improvement last year is not a knock on him. Saying Smoove does not display the scoring or rebounding skills needed to become an all-star is not a knock either.

Smoove is a solid starter and sometimes he is downright spectacular. But he does not play at an elite level anywhere near night in and night out. In fact what makes him such a high risk proposition from a contract standpoint is, for every great game he has, you can throw in at least one game where his shooting% and shooting choices are downright horrific. Scary is the word for those bad games; just like spectacular is the word for his great games.

Smoove is a good starter worthy of 60 mill or a little more. I see nothing in his rebounding or shooting ability that says to me "this guy has all-star written all over him". I dare you you find a post where Diesel says Marvin is a solid starter or Marvin is worth 60 mill...

People who think Smoove has all-star written all over him in my opinion fail to look at his bball iq and shooting stroke. Can he improve? Sure, but did they improve from his 3rd year to his 4th? Not by 12 million dollars; not in my opinion....

Edited August 4, 2008 by jamesdcrockett

[Swish]

Hate to tell you but Diesel actually has said Marvin is a solid starter. Not defending Diesel's Marvin fetish but he never said he was a piece of crap.

[Buzzard]

Hate to tell you but Diesel actually has said Marvin is a solid starter. Not defending Diesel's Marvin fetish but he never said he was a piece of crap.

Oh yes he has man. Probably at a rate of at least ten to twenty times a year...

[Swish]

Did you hear that? That was the sound of you missing my point.

It has been said that MW is a solid starter. I'm pretty positive Diesel never said he was s***. Wanting to trade him for a valuable piece does not translate to being crappy. I want to trade him too, but 15ppg is not shameful.

[Zone034life]

Does Smoove need to improve his game, Yes. So does Okafor, Deng, Biedrins and Ellis. The market has been set so why complain about the money? Its not Smooves fault that the NBA is set up such away that players get paid for what they will potentially do, not what they already have.

As a matter of a fact the falcons Matt Ryan just got 72mil and has not proven to be a player like Smoove has. In the sports world all they can do is predict if a player will become better and when will he decline. Smoove has shown he is on the rise and to lose one of your own because of 2-3mil per is setting a bad precendent. It is showing the league and your own players that you do not believe in rewarding your own players.

Fans need to get over players getting paid MARKET value. Some of you sound like the old guy at work complaining about the young hot shot kid advancing quicker than you.

[Buzzard]

Does Smoove need to improve his game, Yes. So does Okafor, Deng, Biedrins and Ellis. The market has been set so why complain about the money? Its not Smooves fault that the NBA is set up such away that players get paid for what they will potentially do, not what they already have.

As a matter of a fact the falcons Matt Ryan just got 72mil and has not proven to be a player like Smoove has. In the sports world all they can do is predict if a player will become better and when will he decline. Smoove has shown he is on the rise and to lose one of your own because of 2-3mil per is setting a bad precendent. It is showing the league and your own players that you do not believe in rewarding your own players.

Fans need to get over players getting paid MARKET value. Some of you sound like the old guy at work complaining about the young hot shot kid advancing quicker than you.

I am not going to complain if we sign Smoove for 72 mill. We will have our starting playoff team in tact and move on to next season. But I do understand if the ASG is hesitant in paying out 72 mill for Smoove. That is a lot of money for a player who may never rise to far above average in points and rebounds at his position.

Now if we lose our starting PF for what amounts to scraps, I will complain loudly...

[foeteen14]

LOL on this one....cracked me up. Saying Smoove is worthy of only 60 mill because he failed to show significant improvement last year is not a knock on him. Saying Smoove does not display the scoring or rebounding skills needed to become an all-star is not a knock either.

Smoove is a solid starter and sometimes he is downright spectacular. But he does not play at an elite level anywhere near night in and night out. In fact what makes him such a high risk proposition from a contract standpoint is, for every great game he has, you can throw in at least one game where his shooting% and shooting choices are downright horrific. Scary is the word for those bad games; just like spectacular is the word for his great games.

Smoove is a good starter worthy of 60 mill or a little more. I see nothing in his rebounding or shooting ability that says to me "this guy has all-star written all over him". I dare you you find a post where Diesel says Marvin is a solid starter or Marvin is worth 60 mill...

People who think Smoove has all-star written all over him in my opinion fail to look at his bball iq and shooting stroke. Can he improve? Sure, but did they improve from his 3rd year to his 4th? Not by 12 million dollars; not in my opinion....

the man's only 22 years old! at 22 years old, the man can dominate an NBA game both offensively and defensively. yeah, his shot needs work, but i think it needs confidence more than anything. his on ball defense isn't the greatest now, but that will vastly improve with time and experience. He is up and down, but his up's are increasing in frequency and quality. this is one time we should look to the future and not the present. we took a chance on a high school player with a totally raw skill set and over the past four years he has improved his skill set dramatically. his post game, which was nonexistent when he came in the league, has improved to the point that they actually post him up regularly (something i think they should have done more of). his only real problem is that he hovers around the 3 point line, and i think that's more of a result of the offense (lol) woody runs than smith doing his own thing. smoove is going to get better, and he's going to be one of the best true inside/outside offensive threats in the league. it's only a matter of time. THE MAN COULDN'T DIBBLE THE BALL when he came in the league, and here it is four years later, he's the only real 5 tool player in the NBA. i look at smoove like he's an investment into microsoft in the 80's, you put your money in it, then sit back and get rich.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

I am not going to complain if we sign Smoove for 72 mill. We will have our starting playoff team in tact and move on to next season. But I do understand if the ASG is hesitant in paying out 72 mill for Smoove. That is a lot of money for a player who may never rise to far above average in points and rebounds at his position.

Now if we lose our starting PF for what amounts to scraps, I will complain loudly...

Considering he's top 5 at PPG and RPG at his position, I'd say that's pretty far from above average.

[Buzzard]

Considering he's top 5 at PPG and RPG at his position, I'd say that's pretty far from above average.

Where does 17.2 and 8.2 equal top five at PF?

[mrhonline]

the man's only 22 years old! at 22 years old, the man can dominate an NBA game both offensively and defensively. yeah, his shot needs work, but i think it needs confidence more than anything. his on ball defense isn't the greatest now, but that will vastly improve with time and experience. He is up and down, but his up's are increasing in frequency and quality. this is one time we should look to the future and not the present. we took a chance on a high school player with a totally raw skill set and over the past four years he has improved his skill set dramatically. his post game, which was nonexistent when he came in the league, has improved to the point that they actually post him up regularly (something i think they should have done more of). his only real problem is that he hovers around the 3 point line, and i think that's more of a result of the offense (lol) woody runs than smith doing his own thing. smoove is going to get better, and he's going to be one of the best true inside/outside offensive threats in the league. it's only a matter of time. THE MAN COULDN'T DIBBLE THE BALL when he came in the league, and here it is four years later, he's the only real 5 tool player in the NBA. i look at smoove like he's an investment into microsoft in the 80's, you put your money in it, then sit back and get rich.

I appreciate the optimism, but there are several inaccuracies in this post.

1. Smith can NOT dominate a game offensively. In fact, that 32 pt. outburst late in the year is the first time I ever remember him doing that.

2. His post-up game is still largely non-existent. It's his slashing that has improved dramatically.

3. He is NOT a 5-tool player, unless you have a different tool box than I do. (I consider man-up D one of those tools).

But, you're right. He's a solid investment.

[exodus]

In fact, that 32 pt. outburst late in the year is the first time I ever remember him doing that.

I am not sure what game you are referencing here but Smith had 5 games of at least 30pts and 14 games of at least 25 pts this past season.

His consistency is obviously a major issue. If he stops taking those long Js that he can't make and focuses more on scoring inside then he could be a 20 ppg scorer.

2. His post-up game is still largely non-existent.

That just isn't true. He hardly ever posted up until this past season, in which he posted up pretty frequently. When he was patient inside he had good success. Unfortunately he settled for quick jump hooks over taller players far too often.

He just needs to learn to be more patient and try to get around guys instead of taking quick shots over them. His post up game is still a work in progress but it was definitely a big factor in his scoring.

Edited August 4, 2008 by exodus

[Buzzard]

I am not sure what game you are referencing here but Smith had 5 games of at least 30pts and 14 games of at least 25 pts this past season.

His consistency is obviously a major issue. If he stops taking those long Js that he can't make and focuses more on scoring inside then he could be a 20 ppg scorer.

That just isn't true. He hardly ever posted up until this past season, in which he posted up pretty frequently. When he was patient inside he had good success. Unfortunately he settled for quick jump hooks over taller players far too often.

He just needs to learn to be more patient and try to get around guys instead of taking quick shots over them. His post up game is still a work in progress but it was definitely a big factor in his scoring.

No aurgument here that Smoove needs to work on his post up game; but you do realize that if he had not taken all those long J's his scoring average would be down a good .5 a game. It would be sweet to see his fg% get nearer to .480 or so...

Edited August 4, 2008 by jamesdcrockett

[crimedog]

No aurgument here that Smoove needs to work on his post up game; but you do realize that if he had not taken all those long J's his scoring average would be down a good .5 a game...

Well I think the hope is that we have someone else in position to take the jumpers (Evans?) and Smith will be inside taking shots around the basket where he is efficient instead.

[exodus]

No aurgument here that Smoove needs to work on his post up game; but you do realize that if he had not taken all those long J's his scoring average would be down a good .5 a game...

How many putbacks do you think he got standing at the 3 pt line? It is hard to get garbage points out there.

The whole point of Smith going inside is that he can score more effectively there than he can outside.

[Buzzard]

How many putbacks do you think he got standing at the 3 pt line? It is hard to get garbage points out there.

The whole point of Smith going inside is that he can score more effectively there than he can outside.

I understand your point Ex. We have been talking about Smoove's shot selection, or lack there of, for four years now. Here comes the 5th and lets see if he changes. I will also add this, he took about 50 less 3pointers last season than the season before. If that trend continues you may be on to something....

[crimedog]

I understand your point Ex. We have been talking about Smoove's shot selection, or lack there of, for four years now. Here comes the 5th and lets see if he changes. I will also add this, he took about 50 less 3pointers last season than the season before. If that trend continues you may be on to something....

Well I tend to think that the Evans-Chil swap will help Smith's inside game because Chil took 75% of his shots inside (like a center). Instead of having Chil inside for half and hour a game, we will probably have Smith in there for those minutes. The easiest way to keep a guy from shooting too many jumpers is to not put him in an opportunity where most players would take a jumper (a kickout guy on the perimeter).

[Buzzard]

Well I tend to think that the Evans-Chil swap will help Smith's inside game because Chil took 75% of his shots inside (like a center). Instead of having Chil inside for half and hour a game, we will probably have Smith in there for those minutes. The easiest way to keep a guy from shooting too many jumpers is to not put him in an opportunity where most players would take a jumper (a kickout guy on the perimeter).

I really do not think the loss of Chilz or signing of Evans will have that big of an impact on Smoove. Smoove is going to have to go down low like Horford and/or at least get into position 15 feet away from the basket like Marvin does.

I do not care who we have in the game, Smoove has always liked standing still at the 3pt line. It is like he is timid of going inside the paint. One thing about Chilz I really liked, his skinny a** was not afraid to mix it up downlow...

[crimedog]

I really do not think the loss of Chilz or signing of Evans will have that big of an impact on Smoove. Smoove is going to have to go down low like Horford and/or at least get into position 15 feet away from the basket like Marvin does.

I do not care who we have in the game, Smoove has always liked standing still at the 3pt line. It is like he is timid of going inside the paint. One thing about Chilz I really liked, his skinny a** was not afraid to mix it up downlow...

Timid in the paint? Should be more like Horford?

Dude, I don't know why you are so averse to facts. Smith scored 4 more points from dunks/tips/layups than Al (doing so more efficiently) and got over twice as many free throws from attacking the hoop.

The guy gets more than 13 ppg a game NOT from jumpers and you make it seem like all he does is shoot. You are either disingenuous or you don't watch the Hawks if you think he doesn't do any damage inside.

On Chil. He was very good at what he did but was asked him to play down there because he wasn't good from anywhere else. Now, if you have 2 guys down low, your SF and a C, it is stupid to put a third guy in there because it gets too crowded. For whatever reason, the guy we put on the perimeter to compensate was Smith (he can take his man off the dribble would be an explaination I guess). Smith still scored way more points inside than anyone else on our team, including Al, so I'd imagine if we had a SF that could shoot the ball taking up that half an hour a game, there would be more room for our creators to work down there.

[Buzzard]

Timid in the paint? Should be more like Horford?

Dude, I don't know why you are so averse to facts. Smith scored 4 more points from dunks/tips/layups than Al (doing so more efficiently) and got over twice as many free throws from attacking the hoop.

The guy gets more than 13 ppg a game NOT from jumpers and you make it seem like all he does is shoot. You are either disingenuous or you don't watch the Hawks if you think he doesn't do any damage inside.

On Chil. He was very good at what he did but was asked him to play down there because he wasn't good from anywhere else. Now, if you have 2 guys down low, your SF and a C, it is stupid to put a third guy in there because it gets too crowded. For whatever reason, the guy we put on the perimeter to compensate was Smith (he can take his man off the dribble would be an explaination I guess). Smith still scored way more points inside than anyone else on our team, including Al, so I'd imagine if we had a SF that could shoot the ball taking up that half an hour a game, there would be more room for our creators to work down there.

Horford got all his points almost exclusively in the paint. Smoove did get a lot of layups and dunks off fast breaks because he was out on the wing when the rebound was gathered. Do not get so emotional. If you do not see Smoove standing near the 3pt line in our half court sets; we are not watching the same game...

Now I am not saying this is where Smoove caught the ball 100% of the time; but he did catch it there way to often....and has done so his whole career. Watch the game and watch where Smoove goes as soon as we 1st get into a set....Three point line to the PG's righthand side all day long....