Why Overpay For Smoove...

[EazyRoc]

Well, Josh Smith really didn't keep KG in check.

21/9/4 while shooting close to 50% is not keeping someone in check, especially when KG isn't an explosive scorer like Kobe, LeBron, or Carmelo.

Holding those players to 21 points is keeping them in check, but with KG.

Edited July 31, 2008 by EazyRoc

[exodus]

Horford played center for us this year 80% of the time. If a PF was lighting us up it was usually not against Horf.

You obviously didn't watch the games all season. Horford was the center on offense but Woody started the season with Horford defending the best post scorer on the opposing team and the results were a joke. The first time we played Boston KG lit up Horford like a x-mas tree.

Go find me a stat line where Smoove held a top 4 PF in check. It did not happen.

Bosh averaged 3.8 ppg worse against the hawks during 06/07 than he did during the regular season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/spli...007&sType=4

During the 06/07 season only 2 power forwards in the NBA (who played at least 2 games against the Hawks) scored 2 ppg over their averages against the Hawks. Those two were Dirk and Duncan. remember that the team defense was worse that season as well.

On the other hand Horford got lit up by Bogut for crying out loud. Bogut averaged 21.8 ppg shooting 61% against the Hawks. What a joke.

Edited July 31, 2008 by exodus

[exodus]

Well, Josh Smith really didn't keep KG in check.

21/9/4 while shooting close to 50% is not keeping someone in check, especially when KG isn't an explosive scorer like Kobe, LeBron, or Carmelo.

Holding those players to 21 points is keeping them in check, but with KG.

KG shot 6% worse than he did during the season and also shot worse than he did in the next two rounds.

[Buzzard]

One thing I will say is..if you're going to use J. Smith's playoff performances, you should also use Horford's too. He didnt have a bad playoff series at all.

The national coverage did nothing but applaud Horford's game. Barkley calls him the truth. The big talk on Smoove was always the same. All that talent, needs to develop a midrange jumper, needs to stop thinking he is a three point threat. Been hearing the samethings about Smoove for three years now. If he had a midrange jumper he would be unstoppable. Three years later, still no midrange jumper and still thinks he is Reggie Miller every other game...

Yet all we talk about is how much he has improved. I just do not get it. Why do people insist on this belief that Smoove is a great player and deserving of 72 mill a year, when he is still making the same bone headed decisions he was making his rookie year?

Smoove is a quality starter; worthy of a 60 million dollar contract. He is not the next Nique or anything remotely close. Horford is a good big man that was just a rookie. He played his a** off against one of the best teams in recent history and not one national broadcaster or player found fault with him. You cannot say the samething about Smoove. Open your eyes, we have a young star in Horford and a quality starter in Smoove...

[EazyRoc]

That he did. However, in comparison to his playoff performances, J. Smith did a decent job, but he didn't keep him in check. Whoever was guarding him in the championships was the one who kept him in check.

[crimedog]

Horford played center for us this year 80% of the time. If a PF was lighting us up it was usually not against Horf. You even say so in your sentence concerning KG...Go find me a stat line where Smoove held a top 4 PF in check. It did not happen. Dirk, KG etc all got their averages or close. A 4pt difference is not holding anyone in check nor is it having a career game either...

If you want to use stats to talk about who was a better defender, its not even close. Smith's impact on D, using statlines, is by far and away the best on the team.

As far as PFs, Al guarded Bosh and Booz and got lit up by both. Smith switched onto Bosh at the end of the last game we played against them (the infamous OT game) and owned Bosh on both sides of the ball.

I think Al has a great chance to be a great low post defender, he's got a good body and tries hard. That being said, he isn't nearly as impactful a defender as Smith.

[exodus]

Horford got outscored by Bogut 21.8 to 8.3 when we played the Bucks this year and they suck. They have the worst defense in the league.

That is just sad.

[EazyRoc]

Horford isn't much of an offensive threat right now, outside of standing at 15 feet out and shooting a jumpshot. Bogut, though, is developing into a good center and he just used his 7 ft. size and developing post game against Al.

[Buzzard]

KG shot 6% worse than he did during the season and also shot worse than he did in the next two rounds.

Yea I agree. 21/9/4 at 50% is really doing a defensive number on KG. I bet he is still having nightmares about that defensive choke hold we put on him... Your original post stated Smoove held the top 4 PF's in check; yet when you re-posted it was "only" Duncan and Dirk (2 out of 4) had better than average games and a big disclaimer of at least two games...

Bottom line is we did not stop anyone last year from a defensive standpoint. You giving Smoove credit for that is just reinforcing my post that Horford would be better at the PF position than Smoove...

[EazyRoc]

Except when Joe shut Kobe down before the All-Star break. Of course, Kobe had an injured pinky, but he had just had a good game the night before with the same injured pinky.

[exodus]

Yea I agree. 21/9/4 at 50% is really doing a defensive number on KG. I bet he is still having nightmares about that defensive choke hold we put on him...

KG didn't shoot 50%, and his 9/13 performance in the last game obiously helped his percentage.

Your original post stated Smoove held the top 4 PF's in check; yet when you re-posted it was "only" Duncan and Dirk (2 out of 4) had better than average games and a big disclaimer of at least two games...

I was talking about every starting pf in the NBA, not just the top 4.

Bosh was held 3.8 ppg below his average on the season before Horford ever got here. Boozer didn't do crap in the one game he played against the Hawks in 06/07.

We defended 4s better in 06/07 than in 07/08 and the reason is Woody frequently made the mistake of putting Horford on high scoring 4s.

Edited July 31, 2008 by exodus

[Admin]

Horford got outscored by Bogut 21.8 to 8.3 when we played the Bucks this year and they suck. They have the worst defense in the league.

That is just sad.

Sad? Horford was a rookie, WTF did you expect him to be able to do? Josh Smith didn't have a clue about defending anyone other than weak side shot blocking his rookie year. I'm not saying that Horford is a better PF than Smith is, but give Horford some slack for being a rookie.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I guarantee you if Horford had proven to be a bust; the ASG would have Smoove locked up by now. But if you look at the big picture, why would you overpay for Smoove at PF, when you have a budding all-star PF in Horford?

You don't is the answer. Marvin knows his role at SF and will take 8 to 10 mill next year. Horford can play PF better than Smoove already and will be on a rookie contract. Smoove is stuck behind a rock and a hard place. He wants superstar type money but he is not someone to build a team around as stated in another thread.

I guarantee the ASG is looking at this from the perspective that we build around JJ and Horford; and go from there. If Smoove wants to be overpaid, it will have to come from another team. I am not saying we will not sign Smoove; but I am saying we will not overpay for him. He really is stuck between Horford and Marvin, a rock and a hard place....

Because as good as Horford can be he can't play PF and Center.

If Horford moves to PF it leaves a gap at C.

And Smoove/Horford combo at 4/5 >>>>> anything we can do in the forseeable future.

[exodus]

Sad? Horford was a rookie, WTF did you expect him to be able to do?

The thread starter is saying Horford is better than Smith right now. Horford got doubled up by a 14 ppg player. That is sad.

Josh Smith didn't have a clue about defending anyone other than weak side shot blocking his rookie year.

Smith didn't have 3 years of NCAA ball behind him when he was a rookie.

[DChawk]

this is actually a kind of retarded thread. why pit them against each other? they compliment each other so well. imo, josh, joe and al should be the main 3 players we're concerned with. i think w/ josh next to him, al can play the 5 for the next decade. you've got the strong rebounder and the athletic shot blocker who can both put up big points on offense. 72 probably is a little too much but 60's probably a bargain. 11/yr would be perfect.

[Admin]

The thread starter is saying Horford is better than Smith right now. Horford got doubled up by a 14 ppg player. That is sad.

I'm not sure where the doubled up part comes from. Link

He averaged 21.8 ppg against the Hawks this year but he averaged 24 against the Suns, 18 against the Wizards, 17 against Utah, 20 against Dallas, and 16+ against quite a few more teams so it's not like the Hawks were the only team he was able to score on.

[Buzzard]

Sad? Horford was a rookie, WTF did you expect him to be able to do? Josh Smith didn't have a clue about defending anyone other than weak side shot blocking his rookie year. I'm not saying that Horford is a better PF than Smith is, but give Horford some slack for being a rookie.

Yea he picks out one of four games we played them as well. What he failed to mention is we played the Bucks four times and Bogut scored 87pts in those four games while shooting 36/59. No one stopped Bogut including Smoove; but of course EX is going to blame all that on the rook...

[exodus]

I'm not sure where the doubled up part comes from.

21.8/8.3 = 2.6 (Boguts average against us)/(Horfords average against the Bucks)

Hope that helps.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

11-12 mill per year for Smith is not overpaying (5 year 60 mill or 6 yr 70 mill). That's not superstars money... that's what Biedrin, Ellis, Okafor and Deng got and Smith is at their level or higher.

Edited July 31, 2008 by SignJoshOrGetOUT

[exodus]

Yea he picks out one of four games we played them as well.

Dude you need to go to the store and buy a clue. 21.8 was Boguts AVERAGE against us. Did you think Bogut scored 21.8 in one game WTF?