Why Overpay For Smoove...

[crimedog]

18-8-3-3-1.5 isn't a superstar statline but 10-10-1-1-1 is.

Good point, thank god we can lose Smith because Horford is OBVIOUSLY closer to being a superstar and, whats that, he has a full 6 months of upside more than Josh to explore!!!

[Buzzard]

are you serious, 75-85mill for 15 and 10. your saying he'll be in class with elton brand, carlos boozer, or tim duncan. i hope so, but i don't think so.

I see 15 and 10 as Horf's low numbers three years from now. When Boozer got his big contract he was averaging 15.5 and 11.4. Boozer's rookie year he averaged 10 and 7.5. Horf will be demanding a Boozer like contract.

It is almost impossible to find big men who can rebound at 10 a game and score in double figures every night. They just do not grow on trees. Horf is going to get paid. If not by us, then by someone else....

[Buzzard]

18-8-3-3-1.5 isn't a superstar statline but 10-10-1-1-1 is.

Good point, thank god we can lose Smith because Horford is OBVIOUSLY closer to being a superstar and, whats that, he has a full 6 months of upside more than Josh to explore!!!

What do you think about Carlos Boozer. His rookie stat line was 10-7.5-1.3-1.27-0.6. 10 boards a game for a rookie is unheard of. It is sacred ground; and if you don't understand this now, you will in three years...

[foeteen14]

What do you think about Carlos Boozer. His rookie stat line was 10-7.5-1.3-1.27-0.6. 10 boards a game for a rookie is unheard of. It is sacred ground; and if you don't understand this now, you will in three years...

and being 2nd in the leauge in blocks 2 years in a row at the ages of 21 and 22 is a regular occurance

[crimedog]

What do you think about Carlos Boozer. His rookie stat line was 10-7.5-1.3-1.27-0.6. 10 boards a game for a rookie is unheard of. It is sacred ground; and if you don't understand this now, you will in three years...

Mek' got 10 boards a game for his first season - he's not exactly a superstar (he was also a winner in college with a super work ethic, so I wouldn't use that "intangibles" argument).

I love Al Horford by the way. I think he has a chance to be a truly special rebounder, very solid post defender, and good offensive player.

He is not, however, as good as Boozer was as a rookie. He is a better defender/rebounder, although Carlos played 6 fewer mpg as a rookie so the rebounding is actually pretty close. Boozer scored as many points as Al, in fewer minutes, on higher efficiency. Boozer was a better offensive player in college, as a rookie and is better on offense than Al or Josh ever project to be.

[Buzzard]

and being 2nd in the leauge in blocks 2 years in a row at the ages of 21 and 22 is a regular occurance

That is a great stat line. But from my standpoint a PF needs to be a big body and rebounder 1st, scorer second, shot blocker last. Smoove is backwards; he is not the great rebounder a star PF should be...

Rebounding is the whole point of my post that Horford could easily replace Smoove at PF if the ASG decides to move Smoove. Rebounding is more important at the PF position than scoring and shot blocking; and Horf will get better at all three. He is a can't miss now. This is why I think the ASG is not going to give in to Smoove...they have to be able to resign JJ and Horf while keeping as much of our team together as possible.

[Buzzard]

Mek' got 10 boards a game for his first season - he's not exactly a superstar (he was also a winner in college with a super work ethic, so I wouldn't use that "intangibles" argument).

I love Al Horford by the way. I think he has a chance to be a truly special rebounder, very solid post defender, and good offensive player.

He is not, however, as good as Boozer was as a rookie. He is a better defender/rebounder, although Carlos played 6 fewer mpg as a rookie so the rebounding is actually pretty close. Boozer scored as many points as Al, in fewer minutes, on higher efficiency. Boozer was a better offensive player in college, as a rookie and is better on offense than Al or Josh ever project to be.

Boozer was a better offensive player. I think Al is a better defender and rebounder. Time will tell, but I guarantee you Horf will be getting an offer from someone two years from now that is going to raise eyebrows; just like Boozer did after "only" averaging 15 and 11....

[Joker]

11-12 mill per year for Smith is not overpaying (5 year 60 mill or 6 yr 70 mill). That's not superstars money... that's what Biedrin, Ellis, Okafor and Deng got and Smith is at their level or higher.

What's up guys, well Deng is most comparable to Smith and I still think Deng is better then him. But with that being said there worth is about the same. When paying players big money two questions must be answered.

1. Can he lead my franchise or is a building block? If the answer is yes sign him if it's no then question number two.

2. Is he a true big? Which is a true PF or C, that's how Bogut, Okafor, and Bedrins got paid, they come at a premium and when experienced can lead you to the playoffs.

In Josh case, I don't see him as a building block and of course he's not a true big. That makes it very hard to build around him. To me he's a black AK-47. He plays wild and has bunches in talent but can he help you win a important game is the question. That shouldn't be a question if your paying big bucks and you have to consider if his teammate want him. They didn't like his maturity last season and 66 million will not make him more mature.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

@ 2 post above: Maybe and maybe not... but 12 mill per year for Josh Smith is not overpaying.

@ post above: How's Smith not a building block? You take him out and the Hawks lose a lot more than last season. You may get what you wish for, but if you're a true Hawks fan (which you probably aren't), you'll be crying by this time next season if he get traded.

Edited August 1, 2008 by SignJoshOrGetOUT

[Joker]

Ah, you are saying that Bogut scored twice as much as Horford did. I thought that you meant Bogut scored twice his average against the Hawks when you said he doubled him up. Being a little more clear originally might have helped.

What ex and ppl like him forget, Smith is currently our #2 scoring option, Horford wasn't even a option till Bibby came in. He was just pick and roll and rebound guy at first half of the season. As for who is a better player right now? Smith is no doubt, but in two years I highly doubt Smith will be able to hold Al's shorts. I remember when Darius Miles was better then Lebron James for the Cavs in 2003-04. In 2008, Bron a top 3 player in the NBA and Miles isn't even in the league anymore.

Edited August 1, 2008 by nbasuperstar40

[EazyRoc]

What's up guys, well Deng is most comparable to Smith and I still think Deng is better then him. But with that being said there worth is about the same. When paying players big money two questions must be answered.

1. Can he lead my franchise or is a building block? If the answer is yes sign him if it's no then question number two.

2. Is he a true big? Which is a true PF or C, that's how Bogut, Okafor, and Bedrins got paid, they come at a premium and when experienced can lead you to the playoffs.

In Josh case, I don't see him as a building block and of course he's not a true big. That makes it very hard to build around him. To me he's a black AK-47. He plays wild and has bunches in talent but can he help you win a important game is the question. That shouldn't be a question if your paying big bucks and you have to consider if his teammate want him. They didn't like his maturity last season and 66 million will not make him more mature.

I know he carried us on his back for one game in the playoffs. He was also a big reason we won the game when Joe Johnson dropped 20 in the fourth.

[Joker]

@ 2 post above: Maybe and maybe not... but 12 mill per year for Josh Smith is not overpaying.

@ post above: How's Smith not a building block? You take him out and the Hawks lose a lot more than last season. You may get what you wish for, but if you're a true Hawks fan (which you probably aren't), you'll be crying by this time next season if he get traded.

He's not a building block, he a solid player, better suited a 3rd option role player, not a #2 thrusted in a star role. Your right, take him out of the lineup and we will lose a lot more but our depth and lack of talent is the answer to that problem more then the lost of Smith himself. I wouldn't shed a tear for no ATH. That's just pathetic, he's not my brother. As for trading him, I only want to trade him for the right pieces. A very good player and a budding talent. No scrubs, we have Zaza and Speedy no need for more.

[mrhonline]

and being 2nd in the leauge in blocks 2 years in a row at the ages of 21 and 22 is a regular occurance

Blocks <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Rebounds

And with that, I exit this thread. :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[DJlaysitup]

That is a great stat line. But from my standpoint a PF needs to be a big body and rebounder 1st, scorer second, shot blocker last. Smoove is backwards; he is not the great rebounder a star PF should be...

Actually I've watched many games where Smoove outjumps everybody for any rebound that basically doesn't go straight down and takes over. He rebounds with athleticism. While Smoove doesn't currently have the offensive skillset of a SF - he would be great rebounding-wise in a 3/4 position (3 in the power lineup and 4 in the smaller lineup).

As far as Horford goes - I have been very impressed at how AH improved his FT shooting and inside moves in the 2nd half of the year. I think AH will be a great PF IF we run some plays for him and allow him to work on scoring in a game situation. We are far too much of a perimeter oriented team as it is. Woody has to develop a real offense with real options.

Woody needs to realize that you can't just run a perimeter oriented offense and expect the big guys to do all the dirty work...you also have to feed the beasts to make them happy.

Edited August 1, 2008 by DJlaysitup

[BigDirty]

I remember when Darius Miles was better then Lebron James for the Cavs in 2003-04.

Lol, maybe you should stop doing drugs.

[Joker]

I know he carried us on his back for one game in the playoffs. He was also a big reason we won the game when Joe Johnson dropped 20 in the fourth.

I seen other players carry teams in the playoffs in a series. AK-47 with Deron was the only players showing up v. LA in playoffs. Yet you still don't hear fans saying AK deserved his absurd contract. The bottomline is playoffs are about matchups. Unless you do it throughout the playoffs then I can't take you serious in that sense. Deng carried the Bulls in the playoffs in every series. Not just in one and only at home. Sorry but I need more proof. I'm not paying (Pinky) ala from Pinky and the Brain 66 million. It's not likely he will ever be a good shooter. He plays from momentum which is great for someone like Josh C. but not someone who wants J. Smith money. There is so much I could say. I can't lie ASG will take a hit from trading Smith on the PR tip but next season they have 20 mil+ and can sign any major talent which is nice. I would love to sign Boozer and another Center next season. Horford is a mid range PF more then a banger so Boozer could work.

[Joker]

Lol, maybe you should stop doing drugs.

Funny, I watch the Cavs games that season, Bron wasn't as good Miles that season. That was the reason they traded him, that knew Bron was defering to him and it was hampering the delvopment of James at the time, bad trade then but great trade in hindslight. Needless to say Miles had talent in bunches, his work ethic and injuries ended whatever potiental he had.

Edited August 1, 2008 by nbasuperstar40

[exodus]

OK I am sorry, I apologize to your highness....

And so do you, if you think Horf guarded Bogut every minute of any of those games.

As far as i know neither of them played 48 minutes in any game.

Horford was guarding Bogut when they were both in the game. Obviously Horford couldn't guard Bogut when one of them was on the bench.

How has Bogut done against us for his career? How has Howard done against us for his career. How has anyone not done against us for their career. You are trying to blame a rookie for one of the worst defenses in the league over the last 3 seasons....How in the hell is that more Horford's fault than Smoove's?

In 06/07 Bogut averaged 13 against us and Howard averaged 14.

[HawkNJersey]

Some of you are starting to call the wife ugly, after she threatens a divorce....

[HawkNJersey]

So an opinion of AL is better than the facts of Smoove.... :write a letter: