Anybody Not Seeing Where The Asg Is Coming From?

[Wurider05]

I just read where Iggy maybe about to get 70+ million. He isn't worth that at all. As a matter of fact none of the big signings have been worth the money but at the same time it symbolizes something that I think alot of you don't understand. To nearly max out a player is saying that you are carrying our team or we go as far a you will take us. Monta Ellis is now the man on GS, Deng is the man, Iggy is the man on that team (he proved that by leading them to the playoffs without Brand). I think that talent wise none of these guys are worth the money but you can't say that they can't lead their teams or be the man. Please consider these points:

1. If JJ would have had a season ending injury could Smoove had led us to the playoffs. Smoove is not capable of being the man. It is not a knock but rather its an observation. Can you really blame them for not wanting to get themselves in a sticky situation in the future by doing something stupid right now. Bottomline this is business and it is always easy to spend someone else's money. JJ is probably going to command 20 million a season, Horford is going to be worth at least 11 million a season, Marvin 8-12. Smoove average more turnovers than blocks last season people!!! If you start at the max salary and through his deficiences work your way down 9-10 million is about right. We only won 40 out of 89 total games last season.

2. If we had better fans they probably would have given him the money. Other cities even with bad teams have good attendance and are more profitable. You guys act like attendance will drop if Smoove is not here next year. No one is paying to see Smoove. Hell he rarely dunks anymore. Atlanta is a bandwagon town. I don't care if Gary Coleman is running the point if we are consistently winning (.550 to .600 ball) people will come. To me Chillz was our most exciting player. The ASG knows this and that is why the ball is in there court. No one really gives a damn that Smoove is from Atlanta as most people here aren't even from Atlanta. The asg has to make sure that they are going to make money. The owners don't have guaranteed contracts. Hell Smoove can average 5 ppg on 23% shooting and he will still get paid. Why should they risk getting burned??

3. Resigning Woody meant that the ASG perceives talent to be the problem not coaching.

4. Has playing with JJ inflated his stats?

[crimedog]

1. If JJ would have had a season ending injury could Smoove had led us to the playoffs. Smoove is not capable of being the man. It is not a knock but rather its an observation. Can you really blame them for not wanting to get themselves in a sticky situation in the future by doing something stupid right now. Bottomline this is business and it is always easy to spend someone else's money. JJ is probably going to command 20 million a season, Horford is going to be worth at least 11 million a season, Marvin 8-12. Smoove average more turnovers than blocks last season people!!! If you start at the max salary and through his deficiences work your way down 9-10 million is about right. We only won 40 out of 89 total games last season.

2. If we had better fans they probably would have given him the money. Other cities even with bad teams have good attendance and are more profitable. You guys act like attendance will drop if Smoove is not here next year. No one is paying to see Smoove. Hell he rarely dunks anymore. Atlanta is a bandwagon town. I don't care if Gary Coleman is running the point if we are consistently winning (.550 to .600 ball) people will come. To me Chillz was our most exciting player. The ASG knows this and that is why the ball is in there court. No one really gives a damn that Smoove is from Atlanta as most people here aren't even from Atlanta. The asg has to make sure that they are going to make money. The owners don't have guaranteed contracts. Hell Smoove can average 5 ppg on 23% shooting and he will still get paid. Why should they risk getting burned??

4. Has playing with JJ inflated his stats?

Just a point of fact, when JJ did go out for the end of 06-07, Smith did step up and average 20ppg and the team won at the same %... he certainly isn't the offensive player JJ is, but you are intentionally contradicting the only evidence we have.

Second, every one our team had more TOs than blocks...

Third, Smith is as worth 12 a year as JJ is 20 a year. 20 is reserved for your Duncans, KGs, and Kobes. Also, you think Al should be paid what you think Smith wouldn't be, OK but Al isn't ever going to be "the man" on a team either.

Last, how would playing with JJ inflate his stats? We play on a slow team that is based around isos for one player, if anything it deflates the stats for everyone on the team.

Oh, and last, if JJ went up no one would fill his shoes offensively but if Smith went out no one on our team could protect the rim so does that mean that no one on the team is worth a big contract because there is no one player who is good enough to do literally everything...

Edited August 8, 2008 by crimedog

[Swish]

I think Smoove could carry us. JJ is a scorer, face it. Smoove isn't. But a lot of teams are lead by guys that aren't pure scorers; see PHI, PHX, etc.

As for point no. 3, I think ASG is too naive to tell the difference.

Dude, your credibility just flew out the window when you say that Smoove is not our most exciting player. That is the biggest load of BS I have read in a while. Josh Smith is the most marketable and exciting player on our team and one of the most of those in the whole world as far as excitement. My word man that is crazy talk! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkrdGYzX0DE

[Wurider05]

I think Smoove could carry us. JJ is a scorer, face it. Smoove isn't. But a lot of teams are lead by guys that aren't pure scorers; see PHI, PHX, etc.

As for point no. 3, I think ASG is too naive to tell the difference.

Dude, your credibility just flew out the window when you say that Smoove is not our most exciting player. That is the biggest load of BS I have read in a while. Josh Smith is the most marketable and exciting player on our team and one of the most of those in the whole world as far as excitement. My word man that is crazy talk! See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkrdGYzX0DE

I said to me that Chillz was the most exciting player.

[Swish]

I know man, its cool, I just think you're nuts!

[HawksFan87]

If Chillz is exciting so is Za-Za...

[Zone034life]

If JJ would have had a season ending injury could Smoove had led us to the playoffs. Smoove is not capable of being the man. It is not a knock but rather its an observation.

As someone has already stated at the end of the season when JJ was out Smoove did step up and carry this team. Him and KG had a great battle at phillips during that stretch if I remember correctly with the Hawks coming out on top.

And you maybe right about Smoove dunking less. He had more substance to his game this season than ever before. Posting up and facilitating others.

Chillz was exciting but he's not on Smooves level. For all the nice dunks Chillz had he may have had just as many dunks blocked. You don't see Smoove getting rejected at the rim much.

Unlike when someones post there views on marvin I won't call you a hater. You are entitled to your opinion. Even if I think you a terribly off base.

[frosgrim]

If Chillz is exciting so is Za-Za...

Come on, don't tell me you don't yell when Zaza goes up for a layup.....

And misses the rim! :lol6:

Now that will raise any Hawks fan's blood pressure. That's excitement!

Note this completely TIC

[EazyRoc]

Josh Smith isnt going to carry a team to the playoffs. He did step up last year when JJ went down, but we were in the playoff race before he went down. So, Josh Smith did put up good numbers, but it wasn't enough to take the team to the playoffs.

[HawksFan87]

Come on, don't tell me you don't yell when Zaza goes up for a layup.....

And misses the rim! :lol6:

Now that will raise any Hawks fan's blood pressure. That's excitement!

Note this completely TIC

:lol6:

[Packfill]

I just read where Iggy maybe about to get 70+ million. He isn't worth that at all. As a matter of fact none of the big signings have been worth the money but at the same time it symbolizes something that I think alot of you don't understand. To nearly max out a player is saying that you are carrying our team or we go as far a you will take us. Monta Ellis is now the man on GS, Deng is the man, Iggy is the man on that team (he proved that by leading them to the playoffs without Brand). I think that talent wise none of these guys are worth the money but you can't say that they can't lead their teams or be the man. Please consider these points:

1. If JJ would have had a season ending injury could Smoove had led us to the playoffs. Smoove is not capable of being the man. It is not a knock but rather its an observation. Can you really blame them for not wanting to get themselves in a sticky situation in the future by doing something stupid right now. Bottomline this is business and it is always easy to spend someone else's money. JJ is probably going to command 20 million a season, Horford is going to be worth at least 11 million a season, Marvin 8-12. Smoove average more turnovers than blocks last season people!!! If you start at the max salary and through his deficiences work your way down 9-10 million is about right. We only won 40 out of 89 total games last season.

2. If we had better fans they probably would have given him the money. Other cities even with bad teams have good attendance and are more profitable. You guys act like attendance will drop if Smoove is not here next year. No one is paying to see Smoove. Hell he rarely dunks anymore. Atlanta is a bandwagon town. I don't care if Gary Coleman is running the point if we are consistently winning (.550 to .600 ball) people will come. To me Chillz was our most exciting player. The ASG knows this and that is why the ball is in there court. No one really gives a damn that Smoove is from Atlanta as most people here aren't even from Atlanta. The asg has to make sure that they are going to make money. The owners don't have guaranteed contracts. Hell Smoove can average 5 ppg on 23% shooting and he will still get paid. Why should they risk getting burned??

3. Resigning Woody meant that the ASG perceives talent to be the problem not coaching.

4. Has playing with JJ inflated his stats?

If this is what the ASG thinks then they are dumb, cheap or both.

[ATLBob]

Come on, don't tell me you don't yell when Zaza goes up for a layup.....

And misses the rim! :lol6:

Now that will raise any Hawks fan's blood pressure. That's excitement!

Note this completely TIC

Haha, fair enough.

I like Zaza and want him to do well, but I gotta admit, when he gets the ball on the block and starts eyeing the basket, I start yelling at the television, "Don't do it Za!"

[crimedog]

Josh Smith isnt going to carry a team to the playoffs. He did step up last year when JJ went down, but we were in the playoff race before he went down. So, Josh Smith did put up good numbers, but it wasn't enough to take the team to the playoffs.

Huh?

We were mathematically still able to make the playoffs, but were were nowhere NEAR .500 and thats what you had to be at to make them. We won at the exact same rate, literally. You are saying that for him to be worth whatever, he has to not only be able to lead the team to the same record AFTER losing a player of Joe's caliber but he has to lead the team to a significantly better record than it was achieving with Joe? Wow.

Beyond that, imagine Josh had missed the last couple months of last season. We certainly wouldn't have achieved that lofty 37 win status, would that mean Joe was unworthy of an extension? No.

[EazyRoc]

Huh?

We were mathematically still able to make the playoffs, but were were nowhere NEAR .500 and thats what you had to be at to make them. We won at the exact same rate, literally. You are saying that for him to be worth whatever, he has to not only be able to lead the team to the same record AFTER losing a player of Joe's caliber but he has to lead the team to a significantly better record than it was achieving with Joe? Wow.

Beyond that, imagine Josh had missed the last couple months of last season. We certainly wouldn't have achieved that lofty 37 win status, would that mean Joe was unworthy of an extension? No.

Please stop putting words in my mouth, ok ? Thanks.

Josh Smith isn't good enough to carry a team to the playoffs, point blank period.

Joe Johnson isn't good enough to carry a team to the playoffs.

They are both remarkable players who need other remarkable players around them to take a team to the playoffs. Could you imagine what our team would look like if Josh Smith was the focus of defenses night in and night out ? I guarantee you that it would not look pretty or be anywhere near as productive as with Joe. What point are you even trying to make ? Are you just running your mouth to run your mouth ?

Josh Smith is definitely worth an extension, and I've never said otherwise.

[sturt]

I'm late to the Signing Party and do not presume to have read everyone's take on the situation, so perhaps this has already been brought out... but what I thought I'd read in this thread wasn't at all what is here.

That is this, especially having read Sekou's brief entry, asserting that he believes Memphis has been targeting Smoove for some time...

Sund may have recognized, either by gut feeling or from some whispers that he was privy to or both, that MEM might weigh in at some point.

The theory would go on, that, in light of that suspicion, and not knowing how far MEM might go if that were the case, Sund didn't want to be bidding against himself, a la John Hart vs. Scott Boras.

He knew that time was on his side unless Smoove swallowed the poison pill and signed the QO, and that to go ahead with offering a Deng or Okafor type deal may be setting himself up for MEM to ride into the show and raise the already-plus-retail-price that much higher.

Better to wait it out... consistent with the old saying, the first one to speak loses.

If that scenario is about right, it's more confirmation of the validity of that conventional wisdom.

[crimedog]

Please stop putting words in my mouth, ok ? Thanks.

Josh Smith isn't good enough to carry a team to the playoffs, point blank period.

Joe Johnson isn't good enough to carry a team to the playoffs.

They are both remarkable players who need other remarkable players around them to take a team to the playoffs. Could you imagine what our team would look like if Josh Smith was the focus of defenses night in and night out ? I guarantee you that it would not look pretty or be anywhere near as productive as with Joe. What point are you even trying to make ? Are you just running your mouth to run your mouth ?

Josh Smith is definitely worth an extension, and I've never said otherwise.

Sorry, thought you were the original poster and replied in the context of what he said.

[Packfill]

I'm late to the Signing Party and do not presume to have read everyone's take on the situation, so perhaps this has already been brought out... but what I thought I'd read in this thread wasn't at all what is here.

That is this, especially having read Sekou's brief entry, asserting that he believes Memphis has been targeting Smoove for some time...

Sund may have recognized, either by gut feeling or from some whispers that he was privy to or both, that MEM might weigh in at some point.

The theory would go on, that, in light of that suspicion, and not knowing how far MEM might go if that were the case, Sund didn't want to be bidding against himself, a la John Hart vs. Scott Boras.

He knew that time was on his side unless Smoove swallowed the poison pill and signed the QO, and that to go ahead with offering a Deng or Okafor type deal may be setting himself up for MEM to ride into the show and raise the already-plus-retail-price that much higher.

Better to wait it out... consistent with the old saying, the first one to speak loses.

If that scenario is about right, it's more confirmation of the validity of that conventional wisdom.

It could be that Sund outsmarted everyone. It could also be that Memphis was not going to make a play at Smith because they thought he would cost too much. Once they realized the ASG was pinching their pennies they may have thought, what the hect, through out a reasonable number and see if they match. If they do, oh well we weren't expecting to get him anyway. If they don't, heck we got a bargain!

Of course netiher franchise is very welll run, so who knows.

[Wurider05]

I was a visionary last year. I told you so I told u all.!!!