Hawks drawn fouls...

[Diesel]

Zaza Drawn Fouls = 21.2% (66)

JChillz Drawn Fouls = 19.4% (138)

JSmoove Drawn Fouls = 17% (232)

Marvin Williams = Drawn Fouls = 15.2% (165)

Horf = Drawn Fouls = 13.2%(101)

Law = Drawn Fouls = 8.5% (22)

JJ =Drawn Fouls = 8.2% (133)

Bibby = Drawn Fouls = 4.2%(18)

Lue = Drawn Fouls = 3.4%(7)

Baron Davis= Drawn Fouls = 10.5% (179)

Dwayne Wade = Drawn Fouls = 18.1% (207)

Lebron James = Drawn Fouls = 17.2% (342)

Shaq = Drawn Fouls = 22.6% (66)

Steve Nash =Drawn Fouls = 4.1% (41)

Gerald Wallace = Drawn Fouls = 18.7% (209)

Richard Jefferson = Drawn Fouls 17.5% (281)

Above you will see the Hawks Drawn foul stats.. I think the usefulness of this stat is for Style of play. For instance, I would say that Law is a better driver than both Bibby and Lou. By this stat it shows that it is correct. It also shows that JJ doesn't drive so much. When you consider JJ in comparison to his contemporaries (Lebron James) he isn't even close.

A lot has been made of Marvin's ability to draw fouls, but the truth is that he's not drawing that many. Not compared to his contemporaries (Wallace, Jefferson). I think style of play and aggressiveness is the key to this argument. Marvin doesn't drive well so he doesn't draw as many fouls.

What was surprising was Zaza. The flop works!!! Another was Chillz. Chillz is usually on the opposite side of the Marv argument, but the truth is that Chillz goes to the line more (on % basis) than Marvin. A lot more. The Marvin going to the foul line argument is another overexaggeration trying to find some way out of being fantastically mediocre.

One thing is that Bibby and JJ do not get a lot of fouls called. It suggests that they are not putting the ball on the floor going to the basket. I don't want injury, but for stars of the game, they should have higher numbers. I guess our hope should be that Law develops and becomes Wadelike.

[josh_pwns_newbs]

source ?

[Swatguy]

Zaza Drawn Fouls = 21.2% (66)

JChillz Drawn Fouls = 19.4% (138)

JSmoove Drawn Fouls = 17% (232)

Marvin Williams = Drawn Fouls = 15.2% (165)

Horf = Drawn Fouls = 13.2%(101)

Law = Drawn Fouls = 8.5% (22)

JJ =Drawn Fouls = 8.2% (133)

Bibby = Drawn Fouls = 4.2%(18)

Lue = Drawn Fouls = 3.4%(7)

Baron Davis= Drawn Fouls = 10.5% (179)

Dwayne Wade = Drawn Fouls = 18.1% (207)

Lebron James = Drawn Fouls = 17.2% (342)

Shaq = Drawn Fouls = 22.6% (66)

Steve Nash =Drawn Fouls = 4.1% (41)

Gerald Wallace = Drawn Fouls = 18.7% (209)

Richard Jefferson = Drawn Fouls 17.5% (281)

Above you will see the Hawks Drawn foul stats.. I think the usefulness of this stat is for Style of play. For instance, I would say that Law is a better driver than both Bibby and Lou. By this stat it shows that it is correct. It also shows that JJ doesn't drive so much. When you consider JJ in comparison to his contemporaries (Lebron James) he isn't even close.

A lot has been made of Marvin's ability to draw fouls, but the truth is that he's not drawing that many. Not compared to his contemporaries (Wallace, Jefferson). I think style of play and aggressiveness is the key to this argument. Marvin doesn't drive well so he doesn't draw as many fouls.

What was surprising was Zaza. The flop works!!! Another was Chillz. Chillz is usually on the opposite side of the Marv argument, but the truth is that Chillz goes to the line more (on % basis) than Marvin. A lot more. The Marvin going to the foul line argument is another overexaggeration trying to find some way out of being fantastically mediocre.

One thing is that Bibby and JJ do not get a lot of fouls called. It suggests that they are not putting the ball on the floor going to the basket. I don't want injury, but for stars of the game, they should have higher numbers. I guess our hope should be that Law develops and becomes Wadelike.

Please explain the "%". Is the "%" a percentage of the teams "drawn fouls" per minutesplayed/48 ? Or is this the percentage of shot attempts?, personal possesions?, or what.

I say What is The Percentage??

[DrReality]

I would have thought that JJ's would be much higher??????

[mrhonline]

Looking at drawn fouls without looking at free throw efficiency (% of those FT's made) is useless.

[swolehawk2]

Actually JJ does drive the ball a lot...he does not get calls because he rarely goes all the way to the rim, where most fouls are called. he usually pulls up in the lane to shoot that floater...conversely Marvins usually gets fouled on his first step or when he is attacking the rim.

Chills gets foule dafter loose balls and rebounds...he certainly did not beat his man and get to the rim for the majority of his drawn fouls.

The only two players on this team that get to the basket on dribble drives and routinely draw "grown man fouls" are Smoove and Marvin.

[AHF]

Please explain the "%". Is the "%" a percentage of the teams "drawn fouls" per minutesplayed/48 ? Or is this the percentage of shot attempts?, personal possesions?, or what.

I say What is The Percentage??

This is the key question here.

[Boomer]

Maybe it's the percentage of the time that a player has possesion of the ball he gets fouled.

[Diesel]

Please explain the "%". Is the "%" a percentage of the teams "drawn fouls" per minutesplayed/48 ? Or is this the percentage of shot attempts?, personal possesions?, or what.

I say What is The Percentage??

The percentage is the percent of the time that the FGA results in a trip to the FT. i.e. Shooting fouls.

[Diesel]

Looking at drawn fouls without looking at free throw efficiency (% of those FT's made) is useless.

That's BS.

This is a measure of how well a player can draw a foul when he has possession. FT% really doesn't factor into this at all.

[Boomer]

Well, you can't slam a guy for not going to the free throw line when he shoots a shitty percentage. You wouldn't have wanted Chris Dudley going to line everytime he touched the ball.

[crimedog]

Looking at drawn fouls without looking at free throw efficiency (% of those FT's made) is useless.

eh, depends on what you are analyzing. if you are looking at just scoring efficiency than you are totally right as guys like Biedrins, Howard, and Shaq all had their scoring efficieny lowered by poor FT shooting. If you are just looking at the ability to put pressure on the defense by getting to the line, or being able to get into the teeth of a defense and not rely on the jumper, FTs are a good thing to look at.

[mrhonline]

This is a measure of how well a player can draw a foul when he has possession. FT% really doesn't factor into this at all.

Then it's an incomplete statistic. The only advantages that getting to the foul line and missing the shot are:

1. It slows the game down.

2. It nets a foul on an opposing player.

But, since one offensive player rarely fouls out an opposition player all by himself, the impact of #2 on an individual basis is small.

FT rate, as described in the linked article, is the optimum stat for determining a player's FT efficiency:

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-th...ree-throws.html

Edited September 4, 2008 by mrhonline

[Diesel]

Then it's an incomplete statistic. The only advantages that getting to the foul line and missing the shot are:

1. It slows the game down.

2. It nets a foul on an opposing player.

But, since one offensive player rarely fouls out an opposition player all by himself, the impact of #2 on an individual basis is small.

FT rate, as described in the linked article, is the optimum stat for determining a player's FT efficiency:

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-th...ree-throws.html

What???

You have gotten to be kidding.

A foul kills a defensive stand. You've never watched a basketball team play and all the sudden, they're playing great defense and somebody commits the foul?

Moreover,

A foul does put a player in jeopardy.

Did you forget the freakin two foul limit in the 1st qtr... Woody's not the only coach who subscribes to it. If you get the opposing player in foul trouble, it doesn't matter if you hit the shot or not. More than likely, he will be leaving the game.

When Chillz fouled out Paul Pierce in game 6... Did it actually matter what his FT% was?

[Admin]

I don't know, I'm calling BS on this stat. I'd like to see where you got it from.

Looking at the numbers between Marvin, Smoove, and Childress:

Marvin

fg attempts - 918

ft attempts - 409

% fga to fta - 45%

Smoove

fg attempts - 1,133

ft attempts - 469

% fga to fta - 41%

Childress

fg attempts - 573

ft attempts - 275

% fga to fta - 48%

I realize that this is probably a different stat than you are looking at but it's more valid IMO.

[Diesel]

I don't know, I'm calling BS on this stat. I'd like to see where you got it from.

Looking at the numbers between Marvin, Smoove, and Childress:

Marvin

fg attempts - 918

ft attempts - 409

% fga to fta - 45%

Smoove

fg attempts - 1,133

ft attempts - 469

% fga to fta - 41%

Childress

fg attempts - 573

ft attempts - 275

% fga to fta - 48%

I realize that this is probably a different stat than you are looking at but it's more valid IMO.

The stat comes from 82 games. They do it for every player.

82 games JJ

You can argue with them if you like.

[Admin]

The stat comes from 82 games. They do it for every player.

82 games JJ

You can argue with them if you like.

Perhaps I'm missing it but where have they defined how they arrived at this stat? Not that it matters since the stats I posted above are much better indicators of how often each player got FTs in relation to their FG attempts.

[Diesel]

Perhaps I'm missing it but where have they defined how they arrived at this stat? Not that it matters since the stats I posted above are much better indicators of how often each player got FTs in relation to their FG attempts.

I think that they tallied the amount of times that the player was actually fouled with a shooting foul (as opposed to ft attempts) and used that.

You say your numbers are a better indicator...

How is that possible when you have a range of offensive and defensive free throw attempts...? Not to mention taking the technicals...

Drawf defined.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Diesel

[crimedog]

I think that they tallied the amount of times that the player was actually fouled with a shooting foul (as opposed to ft attempts) and used that.

You say your numbers are a better indicator...

How is that possible when you have a range of offensive and defensive free throw attempts...? Not to mention taking the technicals...

That makes more sense. Smith had 65 and 1s, good for 5th in the league in that category. Chil had 32 and Marv had 23. That means that there were a lot more times where Smith was fouled and only got one shot than Marv or Chil. Dolfan's stat punishes Smith for being a stronger finisher.

D's number is % fouled while shooting which is better than fga/fta.

[Admin]

I think that they tallied the amount of times that the player was actually fouled with a shooting foul (as opposed to ft attempts) and used that.

You say your numbers are a better indicator...

How is that possible when you have a range of offensive and defensive free throw attempts...? Not to mention taking the technicals...

I'm just not sure that I buy this stat. It appears to me that this is saying that of Smoove's 1,133 FT attemps only 232 of them came while in the act of shooting, which leaves 83% of his other FT attempts to come from non-shooting and technical fouls. We all know that Smoove rarely shoots technical FTs for us, so that means that most of his remaining 83% came from non-shooting fouls. 84.8% with Marvin. That would also mean that we had to be in the bonus at that time for our guys to be sent to the FT line without being in the act of shooting and that makes this stat seem even more ridiculous.