Flip needs a short leash

[PlayaPat420]

I'm ok with Flip taking all of Smoove's outside shots for him.

:go ahead:

I second this notion

[Watchman]

I'm ok with Flip taking all of Smoove's outside shots for him.

Right on brutha.

[exodus]

Right on brutha.

Flip is a career 28% shooter from 3. Be careful what you wish for.

[Watchman]

Flip is a career 28% shooter from 3. Be careful what you wish for.

Beats Josh's 26.3%.

[exodus]

Beats Josh's 26.3%.

Wow he shoots 1.6% better than Smith. I stand corrected.

Bottom line is that neither one should be shooting 3s. However Flip is a far bigger chucker than Smith. Flip was 9th in the league last season in usage rate. The only guys who used more possessions than Flip were All-Stars.

[Packfill]

Wow he shoots 1.6% better than Smith. I stand corrected.

Bottom line is that neither one should be shooting 3s. However Flip is a far bigger chucker than Smith. Flip was 9th in the league last season in usage rate. The only guys who used more possessions than Flip were All-Stars.

I don't understand why people seem to think Flip is something other then a streaky bench gunner. There is a reason why he hasn't stuck with one team.

Obviously he is better then having some anonymous rookie at the end of the bench, but if he has to play big minutes the Hawks are in trouble because it means one of two things: (i) Acie is not getting it done and/or (ii) JJ is injured.

[crimedog]

Watchman, could you fill me in on the half a season Flip averaged 23ppg? He averaged around that for the first 11 games of 03-04... just like Smith was a 20-10 player while Joe was injured in 06-07, does that make Smith a 20-10 player for most of a season?

[BigDirty]

Yeah that 23ppg thing never happened. Flip's 3 best scoring months ever:

October 2003: 2 games, 23.0ppg

November 2003: 12 games, 20.8ppg

April 2006: 11 games, 14.2ppg

In his 18 starts 03/04 he averaged 19.2ppg.

Edited October 21, 2008 by BigDirty

[Watchman]

Watchman, could you fill me in on the half a season Flip averaged 23ppg? He averaged around that for the first 11 games of 03-04... just like Smith was a 20-10 player while Joe was injured in 06-07, does that make Smith a 20-10 player for most of a season?

Let me simplify it. No, Flip doesn't need to be given free reign, but to whine that he's taking shots away from Smith is laughable. All I remember was that when Flip filled in for Allen when he was injured, his production was quite similar to Allen's. I'm not making him out to be an all-star...we only have one of those, and his initials are JJ. I'd say Flip has just as much business shooting the ball as anyone else on this team other than JJ. And, by the way, JJ seems to be glad to have him here. So who cares if little Joshy don't get to take all his wittle shotty-wotties? Maybe he could learn to use his brain to go along with all that athleticism. Maybe he could learn to work inside instead of hoisting up all those long airballs.

[exodus]

Let me simplify it. No, Flip doesn't need to be given free reign, but to whine that he's taking shots away from Smith is laughable. All I remember was that when Flip filled in for Allen when he was injured, his production was quite similar to Allen's. I'm not making him out to be an all-star...we only have one of those, and his initials are JJ. I'd say Flip has just as much business shooting the ball as anyone else on this team other than JJ. And, by the way, JJ seems to be glad to have him here. So who cares if little Joshy don't get to take all his wittle shotty-wotties? Maybe he could learn to use his brain to go along with all that athleticism. Maybe he could learn to work inside instead of hoisting up all those long airballs.

Funny you complaining about Smith not using his brain when Flip is much older and still hasn't learned how.

Flip has taken more shots in preseason than everyone but JJ. He shouldn't be taking more shots than any of the starters once the season starts.

[AnakinJoe]

Wow, you mean that we added a journeyman player to the league minimum for 1 year and he actually has flaws in his game? Oh my! I thought we were getting the second-coming of D.Wade that no one else in the league had discovered. Oh shoot. Well at least, we were able to sign Randolph Morris to a league minimum contract and he is clearly looking Dwight Howard-like.

Yes, the VAST majority of players on a second unit have flaws and need to be "managed" appropriately by the Head Coach. That's true for Flip, Barbosa, Varejao and every other sub in the league.

[Watchman]

Funny you complaining about Smith not using his brain when Flip is much older and still hasn't learned how.

Pay Flip $11 million a year and you've got room to complain.

[exodus]

Wow, you mean that we added a journeyman player to the league minimum for 1 year and he actually has flaws in his game? Oh my! I thought we were getting the second-coming of D.Wade that no one else in the league had discovered. Oh shoot. Well at least, we were able to sign Randolph Morris to a league minimum contract and he is clearly looking Dwight Howard-like.

Yes, the VAST majority of players on a second unit have flaws and need to be "managed" appropriately by the Head Coach. That's true for Flip, Barbosa, Varejao and every other sub in the league.

Hence my concern. Woody hasn't shown the ability to manage players at all as far as I am concerned. I would rather have Harry the Hawk as a coach than Woody.

[exodus]

Pay Flip $11 million a year and you've got room to complain.

I fail to see how paying someone more money automatically makes them smarter.

Smith gets paid far more money than Flip because he is worth far more than Flip. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

[AtLaS]

Let me simplify it. No, Flip doesn't need to be given free reign, but to whine that he's taking shots away from Smith is laughable. All I remember was that when Flip filled in for Allen when he was injured, his production was quite similar to Allen's. I'm not making him out to be an all-star...we only have one of those, and his initials are JJ. I'd say Flip has just as much business shooting the ball as anyone else on this team other than JJ. And, by the way, JJ seems to be glad to have him here. So who cares if little Joshy don't get to take all his wittle shotty-wotties? Maybe he could learn to use his brain to go along with all that athleticism. Maybe he could learn to work inside instead of hoisting up all those long airballs.

Who said they were mad that Flip was taking shots solely because it was limiting Smith's opportunities? You made that assumption by yourself because one person said "I'd rather Flip take those shots rather than Smith". That's like saying, "I'd rather have Shaq shoot free throws than Ben Wallace." We don't want EITHER doing that. The fact that Flip took all those shots rather than Smith doesn't make it a good thing, Flip is an inefficient shot jacker and has been for his entire career. I'm not mad that Flip is taking shots away from Smith, I'm mad that he takes shots from the entire TEAM and disrupts the offense when that happens. I don't like when Smith does it either.

But, that doesn't mean that you are on point when you say anything over 8 million PER is overpaying for Smith. You must think that 4/5 of the NBA is overpaid. That comment is flat out ridiculous. There isn't a team in the NBA that wouldn't give him that much. You are only focusing on Smith's faults and not his positives which far outweigh them.

[crimedog]

Let me simplify it. No, Flip doesn't need to be given free reign, but to whine that he's taking shots away from Smith is laughable. All I remember was that when Flip filled in for Allen when he was injured, his production was quite similar to Allen's. I'm not making him out to be an all-star...we only have one of those, and his initials are JJ. I'd say Flip has just as much business shooting the ball as anyone else on this team other than JJ. And, by the way, JJ seems to be glad to have him here. So who cares if little Joshy don't get to take all his wittle shotty-wotties? Maybe he could learn to use his brain to go along with all that athleticism. Maybe he could learn to work inside instead of hoisting up all those long airballs.

Flip shot 42% from the field last season, unless you are using some sort of advanced math that is beyond me (and you seem to have trouble with basic math, like 11 games being half of 82), that is lower than every Hawks rotation player except Bibby who was taking almost 6 3s a game.

So how does Flip have as much right as anyone to chuck if he is less likely to score than anyone?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the Flip signing at all, I liked it even. You just look like a guy with a vendetta who likes to say words that don't mean anything.

[Watchman]

I fail to see how paying someone more money automatically makes them smarter.

Smith gets paid far more money than Flip because he is worth far more than Flip. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

So that gives him the right to hoist up crappy shots because he is "worth more"? That gives him the right to put in an effort 2 out of every 7 games?

[AtLaS]

Wow, you mean that we added a journeyman player to the league minimum for 1 year and he actually has flaws in his game? Oh my! I thought we were getting the second-coming of D.Wade that no one else in the league had discovered. Oh shoot. Well at least, we were able to sign Randolph Morris to a league minimum contract and he is clearly looking Dwight Howard-like.

Yes, the VAST majority of players on a second unit have flaws and need to be "managed" appropriately by the Head Coach. That's true for Flip, Barbosa, Varejao and every other sub in the league.

The thing that we are pissed about is that "Journeyman for 1 million a year" is taking the 2nd most shots on our team.

[AtLaS]

So that gives him the right to hoist up crappy shots because he is "worth more"? That gives him the right to put in an effort 2 out of every 7 games?

LOL, I guess the fact that EVERY Hawk (except Horford) sucked in the Boston series for 4 or 5 out of 7 games doesn't mean anything. Boston has the top defense in the NBA and LeBron and Kobe also sucked. It is pretty obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.

[exodus]

So that gives him the right to hoist up crappy shots because he is "worth more"?

You are really reaching now. I never said Smith had a right to launch bad shots. If it was up to me he would never shoot outside 15 feet.

But Smith has a lot of value in other areas besides scoring. Plus he is a young player. Flip isn't.

That gives him the right to put in an effort 2 out of every 7 games?

That is just plain dumb.