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Flip needs a short leash

exodus

By exodus
in Homecourt

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Watchman Mentor

Watchman

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Flip shot 42% from the field last season, unless you are using some sort of advanced math that is beyond me (and you seem to have trouble with basic math, like 11 games being half of 82), that is lower than every Hawks rotation player except Bibby who was taking almost 6 3s a game.

So how does Flip have as much right as anyone to chuck if he is less likely to score than anyone?

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the Flip signing at all, I liked it even. You just look like a guy with a vendetta who likes to say words that don't mean anything.

I don't have a vendetta. That would be Exodus. He can't bear anyone else doing anything other than Josh Smith. I happen to think Josh Smith is highly overrated ( a gross understatement). I hope someday he will merit the accolades he receives. I'll be the first to commend him.

In the meanwhile, Murray is on the team to provide offense off the bench. He is a scorer and a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Why complain when he does it? At the moment, he is producing more efficiently than Smith is. He's even outrebounding Smith at the moment. (Isn't that a sad indictment?) Why does it matter who takes more shots, all other factors being even? This is supposed to be a team. Why complain because one inefficient scorer shoots more than another inefficient one in any given game? Whoever has the hot hand should shoot. One day that might be player A. Another day that might be player B. All I am saying is it is stupid to whine about Murray taking more shots than Smith if Smith isn't outproducing him. Is that really a difficult concept?

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exodus Newbie

exodus

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I don't have a vendetta. That would be Exodus. He can't bear anyone else doing anything other than Josh Smith.

You are obviously clueless. Let's look at my first post again.

Tonight Flip took 13 shots, Horford 6 and Smith 9. That isn't going to work. He took 7 three pointers for chrissakes and he is a career 28% shooter from 3.

You are only focusing on the fact that i mentioned Smith while completely ignoring that i mentioned Horford who took only 6 shots and is supposed to be more of a focus on offense this year. That shows clearly who has the vendetta.

And that is JJ, not Smith, in my avatar.

In the meanwhile, Murray is on the team to provide offense off the bench. He is a scorer and a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Why complain when he does it?

Because when he forces shots it takes the team out of their offense. That is why he could be signed so cheaply.

People were railing againt Lue for being selfish last year but he isn't as bad as Murray.

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crimedog Newbie

crimedog

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In the meanwhile, Murray is on the team to provide offense off the bench. He is a scorer and a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Why complain when he does it? At the moment, he is producing more efficiently than Smith is. He's even outrebounding Smith at the moment. (Isn't that a sad indictment?) Why does it matter who takes more shots, all other factors being even? This is supposed to be a team. Why complain because one inefficient scorer shoots more than another inefficient one in any given game? Whoever has the hot hand should shoot. One day that might be player A. Another day that might be player B. All I am saying is it is stupid to whine about Murray taking more shots than Smith if Smith isn't outproducing him. Is that really a difficult concept?

I'm not complaining when he does it, like I said, I liked the signing. I just happen to agree that Murray is a guy who, more than almost anyone, needs to be kept in check because his entire value comes from his ability to score and when he isn't scoring he needs to be reeled in or he will take a shot every time he gets down the floor and hit it less often than literally everyone else on our team (except Bibby who takes and hits 3s at a much higher rate).

If you want to base Murray's and Smith's respective values off of the preseason instead of the previous regular season, go for it, no one has ever been right doing something like that before but I'm sure it will work you.

... and since Joe shot a lower percentage than Smith, Marv, and Al does that mean that he is also an "innefficient player"?

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AtLaS Mentor

AtLaS

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I don't have a vendetta. That would be Exodus. He can't bear anyone else doing anything other than Josh Smith. I happen to think Josh Smith is highly overrated ( a gross understatement). I hope someday he will merit the accolades he receives. I'll be the first to commend him.

In the meanwhile, Murray is on the team to provide offense off the bench. He is a scorer and a streak shooter, not a pure shooter. Why complain when he does it? At the moment, he is producing more efficiently than Smith is. He's even outrebounding Smith at the moment. (Isn't that a sad indictment?) Why does it matter who takes more shots, all other factors being even? This is supposed to be a team. Why complain because one inefficient scorer shoots more than another inefficient one in any given game? Whoever has the hot hand should shoot. One day that might be player A. Another day that might be player B. All I am saying is it is stupid to whine about Murray taking more shots than Smith if Smith isn't outproducing him. Is that really a difficult concept?

The reason it is obvious that you have a vendetta against Smith is because you constantly are comparing only those 2, despite us saying numerous times that that isn't even our concern. We don't care that he's taking shots away from Smith, we care that he's taking shots away from the entire team. I'd much rather JJ, Bibby, Smith, or Horford take shots before Flip. Hopefully Acie as well if he improves and gains confidence. Hell, if we started Salim and gave him 35 mpg, he could inefficiently put up 19-20 ppg. But that's not what we want.

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Watchman Mentor

Watchman

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The reason it is obvious that you have a vendetta against Smith is because you constantly are comparing only those 2, despite us saying numerous times that that isn't even our concern. We don't care that he's taking shots away from Smith, we care that he's taking shots away from the entire team. I'd much rather JJ, Bibby, Smith, or Horford take shots before Flip. Hopefully Acie as well if he improves and gains confidence. Hell, if we started Salim and gave him 35 mpg, he could inefficiently put up 19-20 ppg. But that's not what we want.

Did you overlook that I said "at the moment" he is producing more efficiently than Smith? I'm quite sure that many of our players will have games where they continue to shoot despite the fact that they are not "on" that night. Why single out Murray?

Besides, someone has to offset Diesel's Marvin bashing or the forum would be lopsided.

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AtLaS Mentor

AtLaS

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Did you overlook that I said "at the moment" he is producing more efficiently than Smith? I'm quite sure that many of our players will have games where they continue to shoot despite the fact that they are not "on" that night. Why single out Murray?

Flip is shooting 50%, Smith is 49.2. You don't make much of a point here. And, this is preseason so I could care less until it happens during the regular season which actually means something.

JJ is a player that I will die with, if he's not shooting well I'm not going to bash him unless he's just taking ridiculous shots. Flip is a journeyman player making 1 million a year for a reason, and that's not what I want to rely on to win. Do I want Smith taking tons of dumb shots? Of course not. Regardless, if Flip isn't scoring, he's not helping the team. If Smith isn't scoring he still provides many benefits to the team. Smith was not resigned because of his scoring. He is not considered a top 50 player because of his scoring. Flips only niche in the NBA is to score the ball, and if he's not making shots, he should be sitting.

Besides, someone has to offset Diesel's Marvin bashing or the forum would be lopsided.

So you do have an agenda? Well, at least you've admitted it.

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exodus Newbie

exodus

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Did you overlook that I said "at the moment" he is producing more efficiently than Smith? I'm quite sure that many of our players will have games where they continue to shoot despite the fact that they are not "on" that night. Why single out Murray?

Because he has been known as a chucker his whole career. Last year he took one shot for every 2.4 minutes of floor time. For comparison JJ took one shot for every 2.2 minutes.

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exodus Newbie

exodus

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Because we have an anyone not named Josh Smith hater in our midst.

Can you read?

I have to wonder since my initial post in this thread mentioned 2 players who didn't get enough shots, not one.

Plus Smith isn't even my favorite player on the team and his love of long range shots drives me nuts.

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Watchman Mentor

Watchman

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LOL you obviously can't read, or refuse to.

Obviously you don't read anything I have written. My entire point has been how stupid it was to call out Murray for one single solitary preseason game, and how hypocritical it is, when the player he is being compared to is the poster child for taking momentum killing, ill-advised shots.

It's just one freaking preseason game. It wasn't like Murray did a typical Josh Smith like 4 for 14 night.

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PureGreatness Newbie

PureGreatness

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Obviously you don't read anything I have written. My entire point has been how stupid it was to call out Murray for one single solitary preseason game, and how hypocritical it is, when the player he is being compared to is the poster child for taking momentum killing, ill-advised shots.

It's just one freaking preseason game. It wasn't like Murray did a typical Josh Smith like 4 for 14 night.

no 6-13 is a typical smoove night. what you posted is a typical flip murray night.

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exodus Newbie

exodus

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Obviously you don't read anything I have written. My entire point has been how stupid it was to call out Murray for one single solitary preseason game, and how hypocritical it is, when the player he is being compared to is the poster child for taking momentum killing, ill-advised shots.

It's just one freaking preseason game. It wasn't like Murray did a typical Josh Smith like 4 for 14 night.

I am not talking about just one game. That one game was just a continuation of the trend that has been going on all preseason (Murray has taken more shots than anyone but JJ) and in fact in Murrays whole career.

A guy who is a career 28% shooter from 3 should never take 7 treys in a game. That is just a joke, especially for a veteran off the bench. He took more shots from 3 than Horford took total.

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Watchman Mentor

Watchman

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no 6-13 is a typical smoove night. what you posted is a typical flip murray night.

I think if you go to the game logs for last season you'll see what I am talking about. But clearly, you see only what you want to see, so don't let anything like reality convince you otherwise. For every 15 rebound game he has, he will have that many 3 rebound games. For every 25 point game he has, he has just as many 8 point games. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself.

If he could be counted on to show up on a more regular basis, I'd be a big fan. I don't hate Smith. He could be a great player if he gave a rat's behind. I just wish he would play with some degree of consistency. He's been in the league long enough to maintain some degree of consistency, or when he's not on, exercise some self discipline, whether the coach maintains discipline or not. He should be beyond the "potential" attribute by now.

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