Woodson calls out Josh Smith

[frankthetank966]

I still don't like when coaches call out players in front of the team. But its business as usual with J-smoove and Woody.

[PlayaPat420]

This board is so incredibly bias!

sarcasm right?...

one comment makes everyone on the board biased now... ok

[Swatguy]

I still don't like when coaches call out players in front of the team. But its business as usual with J-smoove and Woody.

This sounds as if you have never been deeply involved (player or coach) in any organized sport. Well it is the place where the rubber hits the road, right in front were you cannot hide. And Woody ain't running.

[DrReality]

Let's see how he responds on the court before we start on the dead horse.

[Traceman]

Hawks’ Mike Woodson calls out Josh Smith

Coach, forward play down incident after practice

By SEKOU SMITH

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Tuesday, October 21, 2008

Hawks coach Mike Woodson and Josh Smith finally had their training camp dust-up Tuesday, ringing in yet another year together.

Woodson called his team together in a practice-ending huddle and began his speech by telling his team that they needed to take their game to another level with the regular season approaching

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He mentioned Smith by name, which prompted the fifth-year forward to react by saying he was willing to “take all the blame.”

After a brief exchange the huddle broke and Smith headed for the locker room steaming at being called out and shattered his mouthpiece case against a wall. Woodson, smiling the entire time, warned his assistants and other players that Smith would be fine and that they shouldn’t worry.

“Listen, it’s getting close to that time and we can’t go into this thing being cool about anything,” Woodson said long after the buzz had died down. “We had a good run last year and that run is over. You’ve got to build on that run. And the only way you do that is through hard work, on the floor and that carrying over into games.

“I’m not letting these guys off the hook. They can think I’m tough or whatever, but we’ve got to be ready. We’ve got to be ready.”

The final preseason game is Thursday in Detroit before the regular season opens on Oct. 29.

Smith has been a shadow of his usual self during this preseason. While statistics are normally lower due to fewer minutes being played, some of his numbers are drastically low.

He’s grabbed just one rebound in the Hawks’ last two preseason games and didn’t block a single shot in either game. Fouls limited him to just over 15 minutes in Saturday’s win in Charlotte. But he played 33 minutes in a loss to Orlando Monday and grabbed just one rebound to go along with his 13 points and five assists.

Smith’s preseason averages of 11.7 points, 2.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 1.3 blocks aren’t anywhere close to what will be expected when the season starts.

Not after he averaged 17.2 points, 8.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists and 2.8 blocks and 1.5 steals last season.

“For me it’s about measuring myself,” said Smith, who insisted that his reaction to Woodson earlier was strictly a tongue-in-cheek showing to get a rise out of everyone — and he later went into Woodson’s office to make sure there was no mistaking his motives. “Coach is right. I do need to crank it up. And we do need to crank it up as a team. And I understand that when Oct. 29 comes I’m going to lay it all on the line. I’m going to play 82 games as hard as I can and do whatever it takes for my team to win, be it rebounding, blocking shots or scoring or whatever it is.”

What Woodson knows is what he says Smith will learn as this season goes on; that when a player goes from his rookie deal to his first big contract — the Hawks matched a $58 offer sheet from Memphis Aug. 15 to keep Smith — expectations rise.

Even in the preseason.

Hawks captain and All-Star Joe Johnson said he went through a similar process three years ago after signing a five-year, $70 million deal to take over as the Hawks’ top player.

“People expect you to come out and perform at the highest level every night,” Johnson said. “And you [expletive] near have to do that. So it’s going to learning experience and a process for him, because he’s never been asked to carry that kind of load. It’ll be tough for him at the start, it was for me, I went through a roller coaster when I first got here.

“But after a while, when you really learn your niche and play to your strengths it’ll come easier. If you don’t recognize that early, though, you’ll continue to struggle.”

I'm not worried about this at all. I think Woody was just trying to light a fire under Smoove and this is the time to do it. Smoove and Woody will be fine.

I watched the 3 home preseason games (CHA, PHO and ORL) and I think Smoove's rebounding and shotblocking numbers being down are a direct reflection of him playing more SF than PF. Obviously, playing more SF puts him on the perimeter and it takes him away from the basket where most of the rebounds and shot blocks are to be had. For those concerned about Marvin's rebounding numbers being too low, I think this illustrates that rebounding from the SF position is significantly more difficult (I think Shawn Marion is about to demonstrate that in MIA as well if he plays more SF than PF). If Smoove plays more SF, I think his rebounding numbers will go down a little.

That said, there are certainly some positives to Smoove playing SF. He EASILY posted up Pietrus in the last game and scored on him on multiple occasions. He also got out on the break as a finisher rather than as an initiator and he had a couple of "and 1's" as a result. Finally, allowing Zaza and Al to play C and PF respectively early in the game will allow both Smoove and Al to be fresher down the stretch rather than using up all their energy battling bigger/stronger players for the whole game.

Bottom line, I don't know that Smoove's offense would suffer all that much from the SF position but his rebounding and shotblocking won't be as strong. I think Woody certainly needs to go big sometimes but I think Smoove OVERALL is better suited to PF.

[DJlaysitup]

How guys are called out is an individual thing and we don't know what works with Snmoove. That's Woody's job.

Right Doc...and what do we know? Chances are Woody tried the subtle hints and person-to-person comments before and they didn't work. Some guys can't take a hint (or don't understand that the hint is aimed at them)...so you just have to make it plain as day in front of everybody. JS has the contract but Woody has the trump card - playing time. If your PF won't rebound (which we all know JS is awesome at - when motivated) you just sit his ass a few more minutes a game and run Zaza at center and Horford at PF. I'm not talking about taking JS out of the starting lineup or anything - just knock down his minutes by 4 or 5...his agent will "get it".

I haven't been following the board that much the last month or so - so I don't know if the details of JS's contract are out there - but I would guess he has an "opt out" in a couple of years or three...surely he realizes that this contract is just the precursor to his REALLY BIG contract in about 2010/2011....if he can play to his potential.

P.S. - I imagine JS will always be "high maintenance" - but when you get him going he can dominate a game.

Edited October 22, 2008 by DJlaysitup

[Peoriabird]

Bottom line, I don't know that Smoove's offense would suffer all that much from the SF position but his rebounding and shotblocking won't be as strong. I think Woody certainly needs to go big sometimes but I think Smoove OVERALL is better suited to PF.

WOW, It amazes me the number of people that still think that Smith is more effective at SF eventhough they realize that SF is a shooting position on most basketball teams.

[crimedog]

Right Doc...and what do we know? Chances are Woody tried the subtle hints and person-to-person comments before and they didn't work. Some guys can't take a hint (or don't understand that the hint is aimed at them)...so you just have to make it plain as day in front of everybody. JS has the contract but Woody has the trump card - playing time. If your PF won't rebound (which we all know JS is awesome at - when motivated) you just sit his ass a few more minutes a game and run Zaza at center and Horford at PF. I'm not talking about taking JS out of the starting lineup or anything - just knock down his minutes by 4 or 5...his agent will "get it".

I haven't been following the board that much the last month or so - so I don't know if the details of JS's contract are out there - but I would guess he has an "opt out" in a couple of years or three...surely he realizes that this contract is just the precursor to his REALLY BIG contract in about 2010/2011....if he can play to his potential.

P.S. - I imagine JS will always be "high maintenance" - but when you get him going he can dominate a game.

I'll wait to see how he plays in the regular season before I talk about docking minutes. Granted, I'd like all the guys to take the preseason seriously but I don't consider it a huge knock against their character if they don't.

[jhay610]

WOW, It amazes me the number of people that still think that Smith is more effective at SF eventhough they realize that SF is a shooting position on most basketball teams.

I don't think Traceman was saying that Smooth SHOULD play SF, he is just saying that so far that is where a lot of his minutes have been coming and was making an observation about his performance at that spot.

[Traceman]

WOW, It amazes me the number of people that still think that Smith is more effective at SF eventhough they realize that SF is a shooting position on most basketball teams.

Well Peoria, all I know is that in the 3 games I watched at Philips (CHA, PHO & ORL), Smoove was 15-26 from the field (58%) while playing primarily SF. He was able to post up smaller defenders and he was able to get out on the break and finish in transition. He even knocked down several midrange jumpers. Where he struggled was rebounding and defending. His man was able to shake loose for open looks from 3 and he wasn't as effective blocking shots from the SF position either. I think he is MUCH more effective overall as a PF BUT I don't think his offense would suffer all that much at SF.

[Traceman]

I don't think Traceman was saying that Smooth SHOULD play SF, he is just saying that so far that is where a lot of his minutes have been coming and was making an observation about his performance at that spot.

EXACTLY. I think he is more effective from the PF spot overall because we need his rebounding at shotblocking but there are matchups where I think he can be effective at SF.

[Peoriabird]

Well Peoria, all I know is that in the 3 games I watched at Philips (CHA, PHO & ORL), Smoove was 15-26 from the field (58%) while playing primarily SF. He was able to post up smaller defenders and he was able to get out on the break and finish in transition. He even knocked down several midrange jumpers.

You should be a politician! Because like other politician, you have misrepresented the facts. So here are the real facts. Marvin Williams missed the last 3 preseason games which led to Smith starting at SF in those games against Phoenix, Charlotte and Orlando. First of all the Hawks went 1-2 in those 3 games and secondly, Josh Smith numbers were 46% shooting from the field and 9 points per game. He played 26 minutes in the Phoenix game and 33 minutes in the Orlando game. He played only 16 minutes in the Charlotte game because he fouled out. If you think that these offensive numbers are the same as his numbers at power forward, then you may need to recheck out his averages from last year.

[Peoriabird]

First of all the Hawks went 1-2 in those 3 games and secondly, Josh Smith numbers were 46% shooting from the field and 9 points per game.

By comparison, in the 1st 3 preseason games when he played power forward, he shot 48% from the field and averaged 13ppg

[Traceman]

You should be a politician! Because like other politician, you have misrepresented the facts. So here are the real facts. Marvin Williams missed the last 3 preseason games which led to Smith starting at SF in those games against Phoenix, Charlotte and Orlando. First of all the Hawks went 1-2 in those 3 games and secondly, Josh Smith numbers were 46% shooting from the field and 9 points per game. He played 26 minutes in the Phoenix game and 33 minutes in the Orlando game. He played only 16 minutes in the Charlotte game because he fouled out. If you think that these offensive numbers are the same as his numbers at power forward, then you may need to recheck out his averages from last year.

I didn't misrepresent anything. I said he primarily played SF in the 3 games I watched at Philips (CHA, PHO & ORL). That is 100% correct. Marvin got hurt in the first quarter of the CHA game and he didn't play in the 2nd half. You are treating that game as if Smoove only played PF and that was not the case.

My observations about Smoove were that he was pretty efficient offensively but he wasn't as effective on D or on the boards. I didn't see the game in CHA so I didn't include any observations about it. He DID make 15 of 26 in the games I watched.

As for us losing 2 of the 3 games, are you serious? We were playing guys who might not even make the team in critical stretches and so were our opponents. All that matters is what Smoove did when he was on the floor. If he were out there taking bad shots or turning it over, that would be one thing but that did not happen. He took fewer shots from the SF position in the games I watched but he took good shots and made a high percentage of them. His offense from the SF position looked fine to me.

[Diesel]

Well Peoria, all I know is that in the 3 games I watched at Philips (CHA, PHO & ORL), Smoove was 15-26 from the field (58%) while playing primarily SF. He was able to post up smaller defenders and he was able to get out on the break and finish in transition. He even knocked down several midrange jumpers. Where he struggled was rebounding and defending. His man was able to shake loose for open looks from 3 and he wasn't as effective blocking shots from the SF position either. I think he is MUCH more effective overall as a PF BUT I don't think his offense would suffer all that much at SF.

A smart coach would play Smoove at SF on offense and then play Zone on defense. Even if we played something as simple as a diamond and 1 we could get the most out of Smoove. I think his real value defensively will be playing rover and adding help defense (especially on the low blocks). Moreover, I don't think Zaza is the C that demands we move Smoove to C, however, with Bibby being on the blocks, I think that there will prolly be some good ones that will be offered and we shouldn't hesitate to take a look at them. I'm waiting to hear from Portland.

[NineOhTheRino]

this is what Josh needs. You can't give him to much freedom out there. Woodsen has to stay on his butt like that. Good job coach Steve

[DrReality]

A smart coach would play Smoove at SF on offense and then play Zone on defense. Even if we played something as simple as a diamond and 1 we could get the most out of Smoove. I think his real value defensively will be playing rover and adding help defense (especially on the low blocks). Moreover, I don't think Zaza is the C that demands we move Smoove to C, however, with Bibby being on the blocks, I think that there will prolly be some good ones that will be offered and we shouldn't hesitate to take a look at them. I'm waiting to hear from Portland.

Smart coach. Obviously you are not referring to Woody.

At this point I think some of it falls to his teammate to help him suck it up and show what he needs on the court. Weve got several vets now that can do that.

[crimedog]

A smart coach would play Smoove at SF on offense and then play Zone on defense. Even if we played something as simple as a diamond and 1 we could get the most out of Smoove. I think his real value defensively will be playing rover and adding help defense (especially on the low blocks). Moreover, I don't think Zaza is the C that demands we move Smoove to C, however, with Bibby being on the blocks, I think that there will prolly be some good ones that will be offered and we shouldn't hesitate to take a look at them. I'm waiting to hear from Portland.

Pryz?

[exodus]

A zone would make our defensive rebounding woes even worse.

Smith will probably spend some time at the 3 but in order for him to be effective there he really needs to accept his limitations and stop trying to be a 3 pt shooter. He would have an advantage posting up other 3s but that would be contingent upon him actually using good judgement which is obviously a big question mark.

[Traceman]

A zone would make our defensive rebounding woes even worse.

Smith will probably spend some time at the 3 but in order for him to be effective there he really needs to accept his limitations and stop trying to be a 3 pt shooter. He would have an advantage posting up other 3s but that would be contingent upon him actually using good judgement which is obviously a big question mark.

Woody needs to make it easy for Josh by putting him in situations at SF where he has the best chance to be successful. If he has a smaller guy on him, allow Josh to post up. If he has a bigger guy, let him try to take him off the dribble. In the last ORL game when he was at SF against a smaller guy like Pietrus, Woody did a really good job of calling his number and getting him some post up opportunities. Josh looked as good as I've ever seen him look in the post on back to back plays while posting up Pietrus. On the first one, he posted on the low right block, caught the entry pass, gave a shoulder fake left, and turned right and elevated and shot over Pietrus for a nice 8 footer. Swish. Next time down the court, he posted in the same spot, faked like he was going to take the same shot but he spun baseline, put it on the floor once and elevated for a nice, high finger roll. Swish again. That said, there is no doubt that smaller guys are going to give him the wide open J hoping that he won't take them in the post. I don't mind if he takes a couple of J's a game but Woody needs to keep a close watch on him to make sure he doesn't get carried away as we all know he can.

The problem for Josh at SF is going to be defense of smaller, quicker SFs. In all 3 games I watched, his man was able to shake free of him on the perimeter and get wide open looks which they knocked down. To make it worse, them taking him out there took him away from the lane which took him out of rebounding and shotblocking position.

After waching Smoove at SF this preseason, I feel more than ever that putting him there would affect him a lot like it affected Kirilenko. I think Smoove would score close to the same amount of points that he did last season (maybe a LITTLE less), but I think his rebounding and shotblocking would take a big hit and we need those things from him more than his scoring.

Bottom line for me as that I think we can be successful with Smoove at 3 IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS (and I think he should play some 3) but I think he will be more valuable to the team as PRIMARILY a PF.