Woodson calls out Josh Smith

[exodus]

Bottom line for me as that I think we can be successful with Smoove at 3 IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS (and I think he should play some 3) but I think he will be more valuable to the team as PRIMARILY a PF.

I think the main situation is when the opposing 3 isn't a primary scorer. Like you said he can't keep 3s in front of him.

On offense with Smith at the 3 we would be relying heavily on Woody's and Smith's judgement to make it work. That makes me a little uncomfortable to put it mildly. If our players would ever start playing smart we could be dangerous but it is a long way to there from here.

Smith is much better at the 4 but that is Horford's natural spot so it is inevitable that he will end up playing some 3.

[crimedog]

I think the main situation is when the opposing 3 isn't a primary scorer. Like you said he can't keep 3s in front of him.

On offense with Smith at the 3 we would be relying heavily on Woody's and Smith's judgement to make it work. That makes me a little uncomfortable to put it mildly. If our players would ever start playing smart we could be dangerous but it is a long way to there from here.

Smith is much better at the 4 but that is Horford's natural spot so it is inevitable that he will end up playing some 3.

I think Smith is gonna make dumb decisions on offense regardless of where he plays, he can post up 3s and take 4s off the bounce from the high post with equal effectiveness (probably).

My problem is that it really hurts our D because we really need his shotblocking. The reason he had the highest +/- defensive split in the league is because he's a fantastic team defender around the basket, he can make steals, blocks, or take charges. Putting him on the perimeter makes him a neutral defensive player AT BEST.

[Diesel]

Pryz?

Yeah.

I think he's gonig to the blocks being that he's got two more years on his contract and Oden and Aldridge are both there ready to play.

I suggest Bibby/2nd for Pryz/Blake/Frye.

[Diesel]

A zone would make our defensive rebounding woes even worse.

Smith will probably spend some time at the 3 but in order for him to be effective there he really needs to accept his limitations and stop trying to be a 3 pt shooter. He would have an advantage posting up other 3s but that would be contingent upon him actually using good judgement which is obviously a big question mark.

Not if we have a suitable C. Like I said, I don't know if Zaza is the right guy. Howwever, we go to a diamond and 1, most bigs will not try to rest in the paint like they do now. Let Smoove roam and he becomes an automatic Double... especially on the blocks. I don't see how our defensive rebounding would be any worse than they are now. I would Actually think they'd be better because you have a C, Horf, and Smoove in the vicinity at all times. It's only when we play man that allows offensive players to iso and iso smoove out of the paint area. When we play Zone and 1, Smoove can be anywhere he wants to be.

[exodus]

Not if we have a suitable C. Like I said, I don't know if Zaza is the right guy. Howwever, we go to a diamond and 1, most bigs will not try to rest in the paint like they do now. Let Smoove roam and he becomes an automatic Double... especially on the blocks. I don't see how our defensive rebounding would be any worse than they are now. I would Actually think they'd be better because you have a C, Horf, and Smoove in the vicinity at all times. It's only when we play man that allows offensive players to iso and iso smoove out of the paint area. When we play Zone and 1, Smoove can be anywhere he wants to be.

A center with size who can play D is our top need but i don't see us getting one this year.

[Traceman]

Not if we have a suitable C. Like I said, I don't know if Zaza is the right guy. Howwever, we go to a diamond and 1, most bigs will not try to rest in the paint like they do now. Let Smoove roam and he becomes an automatic Double... especially on the blocks. I don't see how our defensive rebounding would be any worse than they are now. I would Actually think they'd be better because you have a C, Horf, and Smoove in the vicinity at all times. It's only when we play man that allows offensive players to iso and iso smoove out of the paint area. When we play Zone and 1, Smoove can be anywhere he wants to be.

A diamond and 1 where Smoove just roams? How exactly is that supposed to work? Isn't the point of a diamond and 1 to have somebody guard the other team's best perimeter scorer man to man and let the other players play Zone behind that?

[DJlaysitup]

A smart coach would play Smoove at SF on offense and then play Zone on defense. Even if we played something as simple as a diamond and 1 we could get the most out of Smoove. I think his real value defensively will be playing rover and adding help defense (especially on the low blocks). ...

BINGO!! give that man a cupie doll !! :super:

P.S. -the reason they call it a "diamond an ONE" is because it's a four man zone with one running around - doing what his instincts tells him. Woody could put the D1 on a shorter leash - like telling JS that he can't guard PGs who will just go by him.....stay around the paint.

Edited October 23, 2008 by DJlaysitup

[AHF]

A diamond and 1 where Smoove just roams? How exactly is that supposed to work? Isn't the point of a diamond and 1 to have somebody guard the other team's best perimeter scorer man to man and let the other players play Zone behind that?

THE DIAMOND-AND-1 DEFENSE

Place a guard in the middle of the free throw line.

Place a forward halfway between the block and the elbow, on each side of the paint.

Place a forward in the middle of the paint about 3 feet in front of the basket.

When these four players are in the proper position, they form a diamond, and play their zone.

Make your best defensive player play m-2-m against the other team's superstar.

With this defense, you accomplish the same as you do with a Box-and-1, except now someone has to go through 2 of your players in order to drive down the middle of the paint.

[Diesel]

A diamond and 1 where Smoove just roams? How exactly is that supposed to work? Isn't the point of a diamond and 1 to have somebody guard the other team's best perimeter scorer man to man and let the other players play Zone behind that?

That's 1 type of diamond and one. I'm talking about what is called a zone and 1 or diamond and 1 or a box and 1 which allows 1 player to play outside of the zone (usually a 1-1-2 or 2-2 or 1-2-1) and double. It's akin to the triangle and if you remember the triangle system, Jordan was always free to roam and double.

Usually in the zone and 1 defense when you're playing a low post player, Smoove could decide to front that player while the zone defender play behind him or Smoove could roam and come in for blocks from the blind side. It's a very effective Junk defense. It can also be modified for Wing players and Perimeter players. I think many people will remember the Diamond and one being run by Utah to protect Keith Van Horn from being exposed by good bigs.

If, however, there was a star perimeter player like Joe Johnson playing against us, I would switch to a triangle defense.... then I would double him with the two free players (all game long).

[Diesel]

THE DIAMOND-AND-1 DEFENSE

Place a guard in the middle of the free throw line.

Place a forward halfway between the block and the elbow, on each side of the paint.

Place a forward in the middle of the paint about 3 feet in front of the basket.

When these four players are in the proper position, they form a diamond, and play their zone.

Make your best defensive player play m-2-m against the other team's superstar.

With this defense, you accomplish the same as you do with a Box-and-1, except now someone has to go through 2 of your players in order to drive down the middle of the paint.

Yep... and that's just one version. The defense is very versatile... For instance:

The "star" is the point guard.

See the Triangle Defense. Try to take him out of triple-threat position by forcing him to dribble. Try to keep him from penetrating. Have your "helper" set up at the top of the key, three-point arc area. By playing here, he will be able to help double team the star, or pick him up if he gets by your main defender. Also, try to confuse him…trap him the first couple times down the floor, then back off and don’t show the trap for a few minutes, and then do it again. Keep him off-balance. After trapping and forcing him to give up the ball, deny the pass back to him.

The "star" is a wing-forward player.

See the Triangle Defense. Try to deny him the ball. Stay between him and the ball ("on the line" --- see "Man-to-Man Pressure Defense"). Force him to back-cut into traffic, where your low post defenders can help out.

The "star" is a low post player. Several points:

(a) Box-out and keep him off the offensive boards.

(b) Deny the pass to him. There are several components to this. The low post defender can three-quarter front him to keep the pass out. Your "helper" can front him. Your perimeter defenders must harass and guard the perimeter tightly to prevent the easy pass into the post. They must move their arms and feet and try to block the passing lanes.

© One strategy is this: overplay his baseline so he cannot drop-step to the baseline. Force him to the lane, where your opposite wing defender will double team him. With this strategy, assuming the opponent's outside shooters are only average, I tell our wing defenders that when the ball is in the opposite low post, to drop down into the lane to help double team the star in the lane. If the star is able to recognize this, and is willing to make the pass off to the opposite wing, and if that wing player is able to make the shot consistently, we may have to change this strategy… but that's three "ifs"!

[Diesel]

Can we hire this guy?

I mean, can we get somebody who can run an offense in here as OC??

[thecampster]

This board is so incredibly bias!

Sorry for the late reply. I don't troll this board like some people but let me just say, "you're damn skippy I'm biased". That's what being a fan is. You root for your guy and Josh Smith is my guy. I played ball as a kid in Indiana. My first ever Hawks game was actually in Indianapolis watching Spud Webb and Dominique Wilkins send the home town Pacers packing and I took an interest in the team then. 4 years later I moved to Atlanta and have now been a Hawks fan since 1992. I grew up 60 miles from Chicago and watched the Bulls religiously growing up but became a Hawks fan around the time I moved here and have never looked back. I watched Nique and Mookie and Smith and Mutombo and all in person as I actually make a point to get to a game or 2 every year in person. I tape every one on cable I can get. Thank God for the invention of the DVR.

Anyone that's balled....seriously balled knows that one hustle guy on the court usually is the difference. Some guys get stats, some guys take the clutch shot but there is usually one cat on the floor that makes or breaks the night. For us, that guy is Smith. As goes Smith so go the Hawks. Woody's criticism is factually legitimate in that Smith doesn't do it every night. His intensity wanes form time to time. But a bigger question for Woodson is why do jump on the guy that turns the tide 40-50% of the games you play for not being that guy every game? Why are you not jumping the guys that aren't being the man on the nights he is not?

What made the Celtics great last year was that on a night Paul Pierce was off, someone else stepped up. And don't give me this crap about who leads in ppg (like Joe Johnson). Personal points scored is the least part of basketball IMO. I'll take a balls deep rebounder or truly gifted Jason Kidd type point guard over a scorer anyday. Give me a lock down defender any day. Basketball is a multipart, do it all game. Team basketball wins every time and team basketball means playing hard when the ball is not in your hands and when you are on defense. I see many well paid people on our squad not doing there part at all facets of the game.

I'm not trashing all the hawks on this. I see great things ahead for Horford for example from a team game point of view. But if the hawks are gonna take the next step, it's not gonna be from individual players "stepping up their game (aka scoring more). It's gonna come from this unit's dedication to the goal of being a team. Taking the personal responsibility to do their job all the time. Woody needs to jump those that are dogging it on D (see Maurice Evans calling out the second unit at the beginning of camp) or not moving when the play isn't called their way on O.