Hawks starting front line

[DJlaysitup]

I'm not trying to make this a "Marvin" thread - but I really think our best front line (currently) is C- Zaza, PF- A.H., SF- Josh Smith. It masks our weakness at the big spots via shear numbers. Granted scoring drops off a bit since none of those guys are real creators with the ball - but with Bibby and JJ that can be overcome (that's what we pay the little guys for anyway right?)

With that starting front line we go 6'11"-6'10"-6'9"....not bad and the C is a strong guy - PF is pretty athletic and talented - and the SF is mega-athletic.

Not to put Marvin out to pasture or anything - he can be a JChillz type guy who gets a ton of minutes and is a solid contributor. :beer:

Edited November 2, 2008 by DJlaysitup

[Admin]

That's not a good idea for 2 reasons.

1) Not enough perimeter shooting and it forces Josh Smith into trying to be an outside shooter. Is anyone here really comfortable with him being an outside shooter for the majority of his shots?

2) Our already thin front court depth gets even worse since our 3 best front court players are all starting now. That leaves Solo and Morris as the only backups and that thought makes me cringe.

[TruJerz]

That's not a good idea for 2 reasons.

1) Not enough perimeter shooting and it forces Josh Smith into trying to be an outside shooter. Is anyone here really comfortable with him being an outside shooter for the majority of his shots?

2) Our already thin front court depth gets even worse since our 3 best front court players are all starting now. That leaves Solo and Morris as the only backups and that thought makes me cringe.

I agree with reason #2. but #1 im not so sure about because just because Josh Smith is a SF doesnt mean he has to shoot alot of perimeter shots..there are SFs who mainly drive to the basket(Iguodala, Al Thorton, Ariza, and even Grant Hill was one that wasnt all good from the perimiter) And its not like Marvin shoots all that better than Smooth from 3. Smith can hit the 15-18 footers pretty well. Bibby and JJ shoot enough shots from long range for the whole team lol but yea I wouldnt start Zaza and Al because if they get in foul trouble, we wont have much to go to off the bench. Thats why we NEED another big man on this team. Im thinking a Wilcox/Drew Gooden type big that can bang bodies and help out on the boards would be perfect. Im willing to give up Marvin for a quality big whether they start or not(as long as they get 20+ minutes) and then move Evans to the starting SF spot. It would make us a better team

Edited November 2, 2008 by r3drumNYNJ

[Admin]

I agree with reason #2. but #1 im not so sure about because just because Josh Smith is a SF doesnt mean he has to shoot alot of perimeter shots..there are SFs who mainly drive to the basket(Iguodala, Al Thorton, Ariza, and even Grant Hill was one that wasnt all good from the perimiter) And its not like Marvin shoots all that better than Smooth from 3. Smith can hit the 15-18 footers pretty well. Bibby and JJ shoot enough shots from long range for the whole team lol but yea I wouldnt start Zaza and Al because if they get in foul trouble, we wont have much to go to off the bench. Thats why we NEED another big man on this team. Im thinking a Wilcox/Drew Gooden type big that can bang bodies and help out on the boards would be perfect. Im willing to give up Marvin for a quality big whether they start or not(as long as they get 20+ minutes) and then move Evans to the starting SF spot. It would make us a better team

It's fine for your starting SF to not be a great jump shooter as long as your PF or C can play outside of the paint, but if you've got Zaza and Al in the paint then there's no room for Smoove to operate in there.

I haven't checked the percentages but I don't think Smoove is anywhere near as effective at the mid-range shot as Marvin. I'd guess that the mid-range shot might be the lowest shooting percentage area for Smoove but that's just guessing based on what I seem to remember.

At the end you mention giving up Marvin and starting Evans, so that means you don't want Smoove starting at the 3 and the real issue is that you just don't want Marvin here. Evans is not big enough to be a starting SF and even if he were and you trade Marvin for a big then you've got an undersized Evans at SF and no backup SFs on the roster.

I'd rather just give Marvin 10-15 games before I start thinking about trading him or not re-signing him.

[TruJerz]

It's fine for your starting SF to not be a great jump shooter as long as your PF or C can play outside of the paint, but if you've got Zaza and Al in the paint then there's no room for Smoove to operate in there.

I haven't checked the percentages but I don't think Smoove is anywhere near as effective at the mid-range shot as Marvin. I'd guess that the mid-range shot might be the lowest shooting percentage area for Smoove but that's just guessing based on what I seem to remember.

At the end you mention giving up Marvin and starting Evans, so that means you don't want Smoove starting at the 3 and the real issue is that you just don't want Marvin here. Evans is not big enough to be a starting SF and even if he were and you trade Marvin for a big then you've got an undersized Evans at SF and no backup SFs on the roster.

I'd rather just give Marvin 10-15 games before I start thinking about trading him or not re-signing him.

Its not that I dont want Marvin here at all..I like him as a player and think ppl on here devalue him but I think he is one of the most tradable players we have. I would not wanna give up Horford or Johnson. Smooth can go too but i would rather him not. I guess Evans is kind of small for the SF spot but i think it could still work..he's an athlete..he'll make up for it. But my point really is that we need another big man to really be very competitive in this league. Zaza is the only big we used off the bench yesterday..that just isnt gonna cut it. We got manhandled on the boards in the first half too..its obvious whats gonna hold us back. Hope management can do something about it

[Admin]

Its not that I dont want Marvin here at all..I like him as a player and think ppl on here devalue him but I think he is one of the most tradable players we have. I would not wanna give up Horford or Johnson. Smooth can go too but i would rather him not. I guess Evans is kind of small for the SF spot but i think it could still work..he's an athlete..he'll make up for it. But my point really is that we need another big man to really be very competitive in this league. Zaza is the only big we used off the bench yesterday..that just isnt gonna cut it. We got manhandled on the boards in the first half too..its obvious whats gonna hold us back. Hope management can do something about it

I agree that we need another big but you don't trade your only prototypical SF to get a backup big. There will be some players that will be cut or traded for future 2nd round picks by the trade deadline. No need to panic and trade Marvin.

[mattlanta]

If we were going to take Marvin out, I'd rather replace him with Maurice Evans. I think this team relies on its athleticism, and if you put in Pachulia as a starter, I don't really think we'll be that athletic. No doubt that Pachulia is one hell of a bench player who is tough/aggressive, and he's really looking good so far, but I think it's best for Pachulia to come off the bench.

I do believe Marvin needs to earn his minutes though. Last night might have been his first game, and he might have just been getting the first game jitters, but man... what a disappointing performance. After all the hype I was hearing about Marvin is at 245, Marvin added a perimeter game... then I watch the game, and I see Marvin taking unnecessary fade away shots...

[Admin]

If we were going to take Marvin out, I'd rather replace him with Maurice Evans. I think this team relies on its athleticism, and if you put in Pachulia as a starter, I don't really think we'll be that athletic. No doubt that Pachulia is one hell of a bench player who is tough/aggressive, and he's really looking good so far, but I think it's best for Pachulia to come off the bench.

I do believe Marvin needs to earn his minutes though. Last night might have been his first game, and he might have just been getting the first game jitters, but man... what a disappointing performance. After all the hype I was hearing about Marvin is at 245, Marvin added a perimeter game... then I watch the game, and I see Marvin taking unnecessary fade away shots...

How much practice and game time did Marvin miss in the pre-season with his thumb injury? I think that combined with missing the first game and then there being a lot of pressure on him to perform well in the home opener after how we played with Mo at SF against Orlando all contributed to him taking some shots that he shouldn't have taken. Maybe he was watching JJ too much and thought he could shooter the floater LOL.

There are some positives though, he blocked a couple of shots and on the shots that he did take inside he didn't get knocked around or look clumsy.

[Joker]

I hate reading this forum after Marvin has a bad game. Ppl here really hate Marvin. I think he's a good player, I like him just as much as I like Josh Smith. Around here Marvin might as well be the devil.

[Joker]

How much practice and game time did Marvin miss in the pre-season with his thumb injury? I think that combined with missing the first game and then there being a lot of pressure on him to perform well in the home opener after how we played with Mo at SF against Orlando all contributed to him taking some shots that he shouldn't have taken. Maybe he was watching JJ too much and thought he could shooter the floater LOL.

There are some positives though, he blocked a couple of shots and on the shots that he did take inside he didn't get knocked around or look clumsy.

he played great defense in the 2nd half and we was a presence. It's was offense where he stuggle.

[DrReality]

I think it depends upon who we play and how we match up. We have historically a tough time against the big, tough centers. Nice to have that option though.

[crimedog]

Just from watching that line up play, I don't think its our most effective one. It wasn't the one we had on the floor in crunch time.

Even in the Magic win we didn't have that line up in.

The most effective lineups we have feature Smith at PF, not because he is bad at SF (which he is), but because he is our most effective player at PF on both sides.

[Dsinner]

I hate reading this forum after Marvin has a bad game. Ppl here really hate Marvin. I think he's a good player, I like him just as much as I like Josh Smith. Around here Marvin might as well be the devil.

Wrong thread. Not once in this thread has anyone said anything near what you're implying. Go back and read the OP. No need to get defensive.

[josh_pwns_newbs]

Wrong thread. Not once in this thread has anyone said anything near what you're implying. Go back and read the OP. No need to get defensive.

hahaha

[BusBoyIsBack]

Are we seriously still having this Smoove at the 3 argument?

It's so dumb. First of all, we have a deeper bench when Zaza comes off the bench.

Second of all, Smoove is not a 3 and never will be. He's a better 4 on both ends of the floor.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 games into the season, and nothing changes.'

Here's the real crazy thing about this thread. To start the 4th quarter, I believe this is the squad we had out on the floor.

PG - Law

G - Lil Flip

G - Evans

F - Smith

C - Zaza

When we made the 4th qtr run:

PG - Bibby

G - Lil Flip

G - JJ

F - Smith

C - Zaza

The "big" lineup actually didn't play well at all last night. WE need Smith on the inside as much as possible, in order to be a defensive deterrent.

Now am I against playing the big lineup in stretches? No. But to use that as our primary lineup? Yeah . . . totally against it.

[BeeSwatter]

I believe at crunch time if Marvin can't get it done we will see Flip or Mo in the lineup. Sometimes I question Flip's shot selection but Philly couldn't keep him out of the lane yesterday. It was nice having another vet available in the lineup.

[mrhonline]

Yeah, not buying the Smith at the 3 argument.

As I see it, there are two competitions going on, since Smith has the 4 spot locked down:

1. Horford v. Pachulia - for starting center nod.

2. Evans v. Marvin - for starting wing nod. (JJ plays the 2 spot when Marvin is in, the 3 spot when Evans is in).

[crimedog]

Yeah, not buying the Smith at the 3 argument.

As I see it, there are two competitions going on, since Smith has the 4 spot locked down:

1. Horford v. Pachulia - for starting center nod.

2. Evans v. Marvin - for starting wing nod. (JJ plays the 2 spot when Marvin is in, the 3 spot when Evans is in).

I like what Al brings to the team as a starter more than what he would bring off the bench and vise versa for Zaza. Al is a low maintenance starter who can crash the D boards. Zaza is a weak defensive rebounder who's best offensive attribute (outside of rebounding) is frustrating tired starters with his physicality and flopping - he's also foul and TO prone.

As far as Marv and Mo, I don't like taking a starter spot away from guy when he isn't blantantly underperforming. I think, especially with a young guy, it can mess them up mentally. That being said, having Bibby, Joe, and Josh in the starting line means we really only need a spot up shooter out of the second wing; having Marv over Mo in the starting line gives us a marginally better line up but Marv over Mo as the sixth man gives us one of the more talented bench players in the league.

To clarify, I wouldn't take Marv's starting spot at this point but I could see us having a really dangerous second unit if we did.

Edited November 3, 2008 by crimedog