Backup bigs suck

[Packfill]

Point guards aren't all about scoring. The facts are we won more and made the playoffs with a single change: adding Bibby. We started this season with the exact same starting lineup as most of last year except we had Bibby at the point instead of AJ or Lue. And we won 6 straight. We've lost 4 straight with Smoove,Zaza, and/or Horford out or injured. Take the starting PF and C off most teams and see how they do.

I still think Bibby is likely gone in the off-season as it is unlikely the team will be able to sign him and Marvin and still have money in the bank for Horford.

[exodus]

Point guards aren't all about scoring. The facts are we won more and made the playoffs with a single change: adding Bibby.

That is exactly my point. All Bibby does is score from the perimeter. He can't play D or break down the defense off the dribble. He doesn't push the ball upcourt. He isn't much of a passer. He is just a spot up shooter.

Our record was maybe 2 games over .500 with Bibby last year. Sure he was an upgrade over AJ/Lue but that isn't saying much. I just dont see any point in resigning him.

[crimedog]

If we trade Bibby for a backup big because our best front court player is injured and we look bad, we are going to suck on offense.

Regardless of what skills Bibby doesn't bring to the table, he's the best point guard we've had in a very long while. He can hit some shots, can beat a press, doesn't pound the rock in the halfcourt if he doesn't see anything, when we run he's great at pushing the pace, and if we ever ran the pick and roll he's pretty good at that.

No, he's not good at breaking down the D, he's actually terrible at it. He's a bad defender too. Still though, I'm not trading him for depth up front unless we get another point guard too. Bibby/Zaza for Hinrich/Gooden would be great if Chi wants to cut salary.

[exodus]

If we trade Bibby for a backup big because our best front court player is injured and we look bad, we are going to suck on offense.

Regardless of what skills Bibby doesn't bring to the table, he's the best point guard we've had in a very long while. He can hit some shots, can beat a press, doesn't pound the rock in the halfcourt if he doesn't see anything, when we run he's great at pushing the pace, and if we ever ran the pick and roll he's pretty good at that.

No, he's not good at breaking down the D, he's actually terrible at it. He's a bad defender too. Still though, I'm not trading him for depth up front unless we get another point guard too. Bibby/Zaza for Hinrich/Gooden would be great if Chi wants to cut salary.

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about whether or not to resign him. I don't know what the answer is for the Hawks pg problems but it is clear to me that Bibby isn't it.

[Antmillennium]

That is exactly my point. All Bibby does is score from the perimeter. He can't play D or break down the defense off the dribble. He doesn't push the ball upcourt. He isn't much of a passer. He is just a spot up shooter.

Our record was maybe 2 games over .500 with Bibby last year. Sure he was an upgrade over AJ/Lue but that isn't saying much. I just dont see any point in resigning him.

Exactly. We see PGs killing us and breaking us down off the dribble all of the time. Yet, Bibby can't do that and he also can't defend anybody. If he's just going to be a spot-up shooter, then we might as well get a tall guy that can shoot and replace Bibby with him. Outside of shooting, Bibby really doesn't bring anything else to the table. That's not what I want in my point guard.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Antmillennium

[Admin]

If we trade Bibby for a backup big because our best front court player is injured and we look bad, we are going to suck on offense.

Regardless of what skills Bibby doesn't bring to the table, he's the best point guard we've had in a very long while. He can hit some shots, can beat a press, doesn't pound the rock in the halfcourt if he doesn't see anything, when we run he's great at pushing the pace, and if we ever ran the pick and roll he's pretty good at that.

No, he's not good at breaking down the D, he's actually terrible at it. He's a bad defender too. Still though, I'm not trading him for depth up front unless we get another point guard too. Bibby/Zaza for Hinrich/Gooden would be great if Chi wants to cut salary.

I definitely agree with you here. You get what you pay for in this league and we gave up spare parts to get Bibby on the downside of his career. With Bibby we're much better offensively for all of the reasons that you mentioned and we're much worse defensively for the reasons that you mentioned. HOWEVER, our defense was pretty damn good WITH Bibby when we had a healthy Smoove, Horford, and even Zaza. Before I start trying to trade Bibby I want to see our team back together and healthy.

I've never been a fan of the Hinrich trades but I would absolutely go for that trade.

[Traceman]

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about whether or not to resign him. I don't know what the answer is for the Hawks pg problems but it is clear to me that Bibby isn't it.

I think it depends on his asking price in the off season. If he takes roughly a 50% pay cut, I'd happily bring him back and continue to develop Acie (who played the way I hoped he would play last night by the way). Bibby is not going to get any younger, quicker or more athletic but he is definitely a starter quality PG and I would happily pay him $7M or so to stay.

If he wants more than that though, I'd have to go in a different direction. The team should have a good feel for what it will take to resign him by the All Star break and they should plan accordingly. If we are in the thick of the playoff race, I'd probably go ahead and hold on to him and look to sign and trade him in the offseason unless we got a heck of an offer. If we are not in the playoff race for some reason (I don't see that happening) , move him for the best package you can get at the deadline.

[macdaddy]

That is exactly my point. All Bibby does is score from the perimeter. He can't play D or break down the defense off the dribble. He doesn't push the ball upcourt. He isn't much of a passer. He is just a spot up shooter.

Our record was maybe 2 games over .500 with Bibby last year. Sure he was an upgrade over AJ/Lue but that isn't saying much. I just dont see any point in resigning him.

Maybe we all actually have some agreement. I don't think we'll resign him either, but I think he is very valuable to our team right now. I definitely think he'll be traded at the deadline but in my opinion he's better at distributing than scoring. I hope Acie continues to play the way he did last night. Then I think we can trade Bibby without losing a lot, but I actually think that Sund's plan really is to trade Bibby at the deadline and make Flip the point for the rest of the season. I think that's why Flip has asserted himself so much from the start.

[crimedog]

I am not talking about this year. I am talking about whether or not to resign him. I don't know what the answer is for the Hawks pg problems but it is clear to me that Bibby isn't it.

Depends on the price.

If Marv really doesn't show any improvement we try and push for a Bibby for Blake+Pryz+Webster/Outlaw sort of deal at the deadline.

We need a point guard though and if no one offers Bibby a lot of money, we're better off resigning him than we are going after another AJ/Lue scrub.

[plskeepbibby]

exodus you are nuts if you think lue or anthony johnson get us in the playoffs last year and if they did we get shut down in five. Mike Bibby is not the problem and Acie Law is definetely not the answer. Its proven the hawks are a better team with Mike Bibby. give credit where credit is due. where was smoove on the road in the playoffs last year. if bibby got punked by rondo then the whole team was punked in boston.

[Packfill]

Maybe we all actually have some agreement. I don't think we'll resign him either, but I think he is very valuable to our team right now. I definitely think he'll be traded at the deadline but in my opinion he's better at distributing than scoring. I hope Acie continues to play the way he did last night. Then I think we can trade Bibby without losing a lot, but I actually think that Sund's plan really is to trade Bibby at the deadline and make Flip the point for the rest of the season. I think that's why Flip has asserted himself so much from the start.

That would be a really bad plan.

If the Hawks are even close to playoff contention it would be beyond stupid to trade Bibby unless an unbelievable package was offered in return. Whether that means Bibby returns the following season, which I think is unlikely if the team also wants to sign Marvin, is another issue entirely.

[exodus]

exodus you are nuts if you think lue or anthony johnson get us in the playoffs last year and if they did we get shut down in five. Mike Bibby is not the problem and Acie Law is definetely not the answer. Its proven the hawks are a better team with Mike Bibby. give credit where credit is due. where was smoove on the road in the playoffs last year. if bibby got punked by rondo then the whole team was punked in boston.

Can you even read? Where did i say Lue or AJ would get us into the playoffs last year?

If you want to make stuff up and argue with yourself then leave my name out of it thank you.

[Admin]

Exodus, regarding your signature you should know that Hotlanta did ask me to ban him for going on a negative rant but I told him that I would not ban someone for that.

[Swish]

Exodus, regarding your signature you should know that Hotlanta did ask me to ban him for going on a negative rant but I told him that I would not ban someone for that.

He's annoying as hell sometimes but thanks for staying fair.

[exodus]

Exodus, regarding your signature you should know that Hotlanta did ask me to ban him for going on a negative rant but I told him that I would not ban someone for that.

Then i will just have to keep hitting him over the head with it for awhile. He might find that more annoying than an actual ban.

[Admin]

He's annoying as hell sometimes but thanks for staying fair.

No problem. I hate banning people, especially those who've been around for as long as this board has existed, but I'd never ban someone for being negative.

[Admin]

Then i will just have to keep hitting him over the head with it for awhile. He might find that more annoying than an actual ban.

LOL maybe, but I have a feeling that it would take a lot to annoy him more than he's usually already annoyed.

My suggestion to Hotlanta was that he put himself on a personal ban if he felt like he didn't live up to the 2 months of not going on a rant.