I was pretty proud of our guys last night

[Admin]

We lose Horford very early on and we're already without Smoove and Zaza is banged up and yet somehow we had back to back possessions in the 4th quarter where we took a 3 that rattled out and either of them would have cut the lead to 4. That was in Indiana playing against a healthy Pacers team who killed us in the paint and shot pretty well overall. I don't see how anyone can be so upset about the loss last night considering the circumstances of it all. It sucks that we lose and the final score got a bit out of hand in the final few minutes but had either (or even both) of those 3's gone in it might have been a completely different ballgame.

[Traceman]

We lose Horford very early on and we're already without Smoove and Zaza is banged up and yet somehow we had back to back possessions in the 4th quarter where we took a 3 that rattled out and either of them would have cut the lead to 4. That was in Indiana playing against a healthy Pacers team who killed us in the paint and shot pretty well overall. I don't see how anyone can be so upset about the loss last night considering the circumstances of it all. It sucks that we lose and the final score got a bit out of hand in the final few minutes but had either (or even both) of those 3's gone in it might have been a completely different ballgame.

That is an extremely optimistic way of looking at it in my opinion. What I saw was a team who couldn't (or didn't) defend well for the 3rd consecutive game. Just because we hit a few shots in the 4th to ALMOST get back in the game (any decent team will make a run at SOME point), it still doesn't change the fact that our D is simply attrocious. Seeing CLE get serious on D in the 2nd half and DESTROY NJ last night made me realize just how bad our D has been.

That said, I was VERY happy to see Acie come in a provide a little spark last night, particularly when it looked like he was about to become buried on the bench. He looked like the player I HOPED that he would be when we drafted him. If he can continue to build on that performance, it could be very important for this team going forward.

[Admin]

That is an extremely optimistic way of looking at it in my opinion. What I saw was a team who couldn't (or didn't) defend well for the 3rd consecutive game. Just because we hit a few shots in the 4th to ALMOST get back in the game (any decent team will make a run at SOME point), it still doesn't change the fact that our D is simply attrocious. Seeing CLE get serious on D in the 2nd half and DESTROY NJ last night made me realize just how bad our D has been.

That said, I was VERY happy to see Acie come in a provide a little spark last night, particularly when it looked like he was about to become buried on the bench. He looked like the player I HOPED that he would be when we drafted him. If he can continue to build on that performance, it could be very important for this team going forward.

What do you expect? We have end of the bench players being forced into starting and playing big minutes and there's no chemistry. Our bench guys aren't bad against other teams bench players but our bench vs other teams starters is going to look bad for us every time. Solo and Morris might as well be rookies with as much experience as they have so I'd expect to see Rasho and Murphy and their other experienced bigs to out play them badly.

Maybe our first few games were a fluke with our defense but I think we looked pretty damn good in those games and perfectly capable of clamping down on a team and I'm not going to indict them for being less talented than other teams due to injuries. Some of you may not have seen the effort but I think it was there, we just didn't have the bodies to be able to keep up.

[txsting]

That is an extremely optimistic way of looking at it in my opinion. What I saw was a team who couldn't (or didn't) defend well for the 3rd consecutive game. Just because we hit a few shots in the 4th to ALMOST get back in the game (any decent team will make a run at SOME point), it still doesn't change the fact that our D is simply attrocious. Seeing CLE get serious on D in the 2nd half and DESTROY NJ last night made me realize just how bad our D has been.

That said, I was VERY happy to see Acie come in a provide a little spark last night, particularly when it looked like he was about to become buried on the bench. He looked like the player I HOPED that he would be when we drafted him. If he can continue to build on that performance, it could be very important for this team going forward.

Yeah Acie really looked great last night in limited minutes. He did whatever he wanted to. That must mean it's time for him to get injured again. :sobbing:

[Traceman]

What do you expect? We have end of the bench players being forced into starting and playing big minutes and there's no chemistry. Our bench guys aren't bad against other teams bench players but our bench vs other teams starters is going to look bad for us every time. Solo and Morris might as well be rookies with as much experience as they have so I'd expect to see Rasho and Murphy and their other experienced bigs to out play them badly.

Maybe our first few games were a fluke with our defense but I think we looked pretty damn good in those games and perfectly capable of clamping down on a team and I'm not going to indict them for being less talented than other teams due to injuries. Some of you may not have seen the effort but I think it was there, we just didn't have the bodies to be able to keep up.

I expect our guys to be better and tougher defensively than they were last night. Period. Our backup bigs played incredibly soft and allowed Ford, Granger, Daniels, etc to come into the lane with virtually no repercussions. Solo was the only one who even tried to defend the rim. As big as Morris and Zaza are, they should AT LEAST be able to put those guys on the ground when they come into the lane - nothing dirty but make then FEEL you. Use your size and strength! Neither did that last night.

On the perimeter, we have to KNOW where the shooters are. Granger was hot last night and he was going to make shots regardless but they got a LOT of good looks on the perimeter off penetration by Ford (same as NJ did off penetration by Harris). We MUST find a way to keep quick PGs out of the lane. A good PG is going to get in the lane at times but we have allowed it to happen far too easily lately.

I think the effort was there by certain players but the TEAM effort I saw in the first 7 games has not been there the last few games. I think part of the problem is focus. I kind of expected us to lose a little focus after the BOS game (only natural) but I expected us to get it back when we came home versus NJ. I think that loss affected our confidence and we need to get back to playing with the focus and effort that we played with before. Hopefully, that happens tonight.

[Packfill]

I expect our guys to be better and tougher defensively than they were last night. Period. Our backup bigs played incredibly soft and allowed Ford, Granger, Daniels, etc to come into the lane with virtually no repercussions. Solo was the only one who even tried to defend the rim. As big as Morris and Zaza are, they should AT LEAST be able to put those guys on the ground when they come into the lane - nothing dirty but make then FEEL you. Use your size and strength! Neither did that last night.

On the perimeter, we have to KNOW where the shooters are. Granger was hot last night and he was going to make shots regardless but they got a LOT of good looks on the perimeter off penetration by Ford (same as NJ did off penetration by Harris). We MUST find a way to keep quick PGs out of the lane. A good PG is going to get in the lane at times but we have allowed it to happen far too easily lately.

I think the effort was there by certain players but the TEAM effort I saw in the first 7 games has not been there the last few games. I think part of the problem is focus. I kind of expected us to lose a little focus after the BOS game (only natural) but I expected us to get it back when we came home versus NJ. I think that loss affected our confidence and we need to get back to playing with the focus and effort that we played with before. Hopefully, that happens tonight.

So basically, the Hawks can be a very good team when everything goes exactly right (i.e., no key injuries, shots are falling and focus is there).

To me, the mark of a good team is succeeding despite adversity. The best teams have to bring it every night because everyone wants to beat them and increases their intensity accordingly.

[Admin]

I expect our guys to be better and tougher defensively than they were last night. Period. Our backup bigs played incredibly soft and allowed Ford, Granger, Daniels, etc to come into the lane with virtually no repercussions. Solo was the only one who even tried to defend the rim. As big as Morris and Zaza are, they should AT LEAST be able to put those guys on the ground when they come into the lane - nothing dirty but make then FEEL you. Use your size and strength! Neither did that last night.

On the perimeter, we have to KNOW where the shooters are. Granger was hot last night and he was going to make shots regardless but they got a LOT of good looks on the perimeter off penetration by Ford (same as NJ did off penetration by Harris). We MUST find a way to keep quick PGs out of the lane. A good PG is going to get in the lane at times but we have allowed it to happen far too easily lately.

I think the effort was there by certain players but the TEAM effort I saw in the first 7 games has not been there the last few games. I think part of the problem is focus. I kind of expected us to lose a little focus after the BOS game (only natural) but I expected us to get it back when we came home versus NJ. I think that loss affected our confidence and we need to get back to playing with the focus and effort that we played with before. Hopefully, that happens tonight.

It would be great if we had those types of bigs but Zaza and Morris are soft. They've always been soft and probably always will be soft. Zaza doesn't even attempt to block shots and probably couldn't even if he tried since he can't get more than 1/2" off the ground and Morris can't do much other than foul when he does attempt to block shots. They are probably playing a little softer than they normally would though since we're so shorthanded as well. Typically their roles are to come off the bench and battle the other teams bench bigs and they could pick up fouls without having to worry about it, but since they're starting not only are they severely outclassed but they also have to be careful to not pick up any extra fouls.

Agreed about their shooters but if we can't stop PG penetration and we we have to rotate to help in the lane I'm not sure what we can do about their shooters. Either we let the PG drive in and hope that he misses (since we know it won't be blocked) or we help and leave guys open for a deeper shot. I really don't think it's an effort problem with Bibby not being able to stop guys like Rondo, Harris and Ford. I just don't think he has the ability to stop them and it's breaking down our entire defensive system since we don't have Smoove to make them think twice about shooting inside.

I fully expect that we'll win tonight since they don't have any bigs that can dominate inside and they don't have an ultra quick PG or good outside shooters. Tonight would be the first night that I'd be really disappointed losing.

[crimedog]

I wasn't particularly impressed, but I wasn't really dissappointed either. I think there is a mental strain associated with losing a key guy like Josh or Joe. In practice, in planning, you always have those guys there and you build your gameplan around them. You get used to being able to play up on a guy because Smith will make it harder to score at the rim, or you get used to being able to count on Joe for a crunch time score. You lose that and there is some tentativeness in your reaction. The guys played above their heads for a few games after losing Josh and then when the collapse came, it just hit them hard. I think they are trying but they are a little bit lost right now.

We need a win though, it'll help kick the guys back into gear. I'd like to see Joe or Bibby get up in some guys' faces but I'm not sure its their thing.

[h2t]

So basically, the Hawks can be a very good team when everything goes exactly right (i.e., no key injuries, shots are falling and focus is there).

To me, the mark of a good team is succeeding despite adversity. The best teams have to bring it every night because everyone wants to beat them and increases their intensity accordingly.

I think we can be a very good team as long as our front court can stay healthy..especially Josh. There are different degrees of adversity and i think the Hawks losing Josh for 4 weeks and zaza and Al being hurt and missing some games at the same time is probably the worst thing that could of possibly happened. IMO Josh is even more important to this team than Joe is this season...because of the added scoring from the guards on the bench (flip especially).

Look at the Wizards...they have some talent on that team. If you were a fan would you be crying for them to succeed despite the adversity of losing Arenas and Haywood or would you be realistic?

Of course the fact that we're getting creamed by 15-20 points a game doesn't sit well with me. The players are giving the same answers after every game about how the intensity isn't the same and well i'm wondering why the hell they can't pick it up? A lot of people wanna blame Woody but the players themselves need to step up eventually. Maybe a headbutt by Zaza will do the trick...

[Traceman]

It would be great if we had those types of bigs but Zaza and Morris are soft. They've always been soft and probably always will be soft. Zaza doesn't even attempt to block shots and probably couldn't even if he tried since he can't get more than 1/2" off the ground and Morris can't do much other than foul when he does attempt to block shots. They are probably playing a little softer than they normally would though since we're so shorthanded as well. Typically their roles are to come off the bench and battle the other teams bench bigs and they could pick up fouls without having to worry about it, but since they're starting not only are they severely outclassed but they also have to be careful to not pick up any extra fouls.

Agreed about their shooters but if we can't stop PG penetration and we we have to rotate to help in the lane I'm not sure what we can do about their shooters. Either we let the PG drive in and hope that he misses (since we know it won't be blocked) or we help and leave guys open for a deeper shot. I really don't think it's an effort problem with Bibby not being able to stop guys like Rondo, Harris and Ford. I just don't think he has the ability to stop them and it's breaking down our entire defensive system since we don't have Smoove to make them think twice about shooting inside.

I fully expect that we'll win tonight since they don't have any bigs that can dominate inside and they don't have an ultra quick PG or good outside shooters. Tonight would be the first night that I'd be really disappointed losing.

Good points about Zaza and Morris but I'd rather see them both foul out than to see them allow uncontested shots in the lane all game. Othello is not ready but I'd rather see him in there early with Zaza and/or Morris in foul trouble than to watch guys get uncontested layups.

As for tonight, if Al can't go, this game is a toss up. With Smoove and Al out, we have no one to match up with Jamison. Hopefully he won't but he could go for 30/20 and it wouldn't surprise me much. If Butler is on too, we could be in for a real battle. Hopefully, someone will step up and give Joe some help. Marvin, we need you baby!

[crimedog]

I think we can be a very good team as long as our front court can stay healthy..especially Josh. There are different degrees of adversity and i think the Hawks losing Josh for 4 weeks and zaza and Al being hurt and missing some games at the same time is probably the worst thing that could of possibly happened. IMO Josh is even more important to this team than Joe is this season...because of the added scoring from the guards on the bench (flip especially).

Look at the Wizards...they have some talent on that team. If you were a fan would you be crying for them to succeed despite the adversity of losing Arenas and Haywood or would you be realistic?

Of course the fact that we're getting creamed by 15-20 points a game doesn't sit well with me. The players are giving the same answers after every game about how the intensity isn't the same and well i'm wondering why the hell they can't pick it up? A lot of people wanna blame Woody but the players themselves need to step up eventually. Maybe a headbutt by Zaza will do the trick...

Yeah, I agree but I don't like the Wiz' team so I don't really want to be compared to them... personal preference there though.

There is only so much "overcoming adversity" you can do. We could have done better in the Nets games, on the other hand we played extremely well against Toronto, Chicago, and Boston considering we had no Smith.

Some teams just aren't built to withstand the loss of certain players for long periods of time. Management probably should have found a way to get a defensive minded backup big on the team but you plan to play with your starting line up.

I'd imagine a big home win against the lowly Wiz will quiet some of the panic and get the guys a little more fired up to play another two/three games without Josh.

[Admin]

Good points about Zaza and Morris but I'd rather see them both foul out than to see them allow uncontested shots in the lane all game. Othello is not ready but I'd rather see him in there early with Zaza and/or Morris in foul trouble than to watch guys get uncontested layups.

As for tonight, if Al can't go, this game is a toss up. With Smoove and Al out, we have no one to match up with Jamison. Hopefully he won't but he could go for 30/20 and it wouldn't surprise me much. If Butler is on too, we could be in for a real battle. Hopefully, someone will step up and give Joe some help. Marvin, we need you baby!

Well you know if Zaza and/or Morris do foul then they're going straight to the bench quick. Then we'll end up with Marvin at center again :(

I forgot to comment about Othello but I loved what I saw from him last night. He looked a bit raw but he was contesting shots and giving solid effort. I was actually disappointed to see Solo come in the game for him. I was hoping that Solo was going to come in for Zaza as I think a combo of Solo and Hunter could be effective for short stretches.

It seems like Jamison always has a huge game against us so I'll expect that, but we need to contain Butler and the rest of the supporting cast.

[Plainview1981]

I think the effort was there by certain players but the TEAM effort I saw in the first 7 games has not been there the last few games. I think part of the problem is focus.

That's the problem. Guys like Bibby, JJ, ZaZa and others aren't going to be a good defensive player like a Bruce Bowen or somebody like that. It's just not their game. So they really have to focus and try even harder.

[h2t]

I just realized during the game last night that Marvin and Othello are both 22 years old. Othello is just a rook and it seems like Marvin has been in the league for ages lol.

[HawkItus]

I won't say I was proud, but I was encouraged that we did make a run. I just wonder if Woody will just concede we can't go halfcourt with the players we are missing and just tell our guys to push it.

[crimedog]

I won't say I was proud, but I was encouraged that we did make a run. I just wonder if Woody will just concede we can't go halfcourt with the players we are missing and just tell our guys to push it.

doubt he decides to do that for any stretch.

[DrReality]

I just cauhgt the end of the game but it is wonderful to see the different guys pick up the slack. If Za could play like that EVERY NIGHT and if Acie could keep bringing it like that it would help huge.

[lethalweapon3]

Marvin delivered last night on what I've been pleading for since Smoove went down.

Rebounding... check.

Assertiveness... check.

Timely Passing... check.

Clutch Shooting... that's been a check all year.

Consistency... well, we shall see!

~lw3