JJ vs. Smoove: Who's more important?

[DrReality]

I don't think you can do an either/or. They compliment each other so well and make the other that much better. They are co-equal in importance.

[PlayaPat420]

My friend and I were having this debate.

Let's say the entire team is healthy, and you could only choose to have 1 on your team for an 82 game season...Who do you take? Do you take Smoove's shotblocking, explosiveness, and energy, or do you take JJ's amazing offensive prowess?

Who is the more valuable player?

JJ all day. This team would struggle to score 80 a night without him. Smoove helps our defense immensely but you still have to score to win. i say if joe had missed these 6 games and josh had played... we probably win 1

[crimedog]

JJ all day. This team would struggle to score 80 a night without him. Smoove helps our defense immensely but you still have to score to win. i say if joe had missed these 6 games and josh had played... we probably win 1

Again, I'd never say that Josh is a better player and I think they are of equal importance to the team for a variety of reasons but why do people keep saying these hypotheticals about what would happen if Joe were out? We already know, he was out for a good chunk of 06-07. Josh upped his scoring (and efficiency) and the team won at exactly the same rate as it had for the rest of the season.

Not saying that removing Joe doesn't make the team worse. I would hate to see Joe miss even a single game. Still though, it happened, and for the "would struggle to score 80", we only scored less than 80 once in the time that stretch without Joe at the end of 06-07.

Not saying Joe isn't as important, just saying that if you are going to make a point, make a point that doesn't contradict reality.

[TruJerz]

I don't think you can do an either/or. They compliment each other so well and make the other that much better. They are co-equal in importance.

Both are very important obviously but JJ is more important. Josh Smith is our best defensive player, by far...and Joe Johnson is our best offensive player, by far. but Joe Johnson is the man on this team..we dont score enough points to win without him because not only does he score but he creates for others and draws attention. We dont win alot of close 4th qt games without him either..he has proven to be a clutch performer. You can argue that JSmooth is more important but Im going with JJ on this one. he's our guy..our LeBron James and our Kobe! lol

[Admin]

Again, I'd never say that Josh is a better player and I think they are of equal importance to the team for a variety of reasons but why do people keep saying these hypotheticals about what would happen if Joe were out? We already know, he was out for a good chunk of 06-07. Josh upped his scoring (and efficiency) and the team won at exactly the same rate as it had for the rest of the season.

Not saying that removing Joe doesn't make the team worse. I would hate to see Joe miss even a single game. Still though, it happened, and for the "would struggle to score 80", we only scored less than 80 once in the time that stretch without Joe at the end of 06-07.

Not saying Joe isn't as important, just saying that if you are going to make a point, make a point that doesn't contradict reality.

Yep that's the way that I see it as well. I'd also say that the supporting cast of this team is better offensively and defensively than the 06-07 crew was and I'm quite sure that people would be surprised to see we'd still be able to score without Joe.

Let's just pray that we don't lose Joe for any length of time though because it's indisputable that we are better on both ends with him than without him.

[thecampster]

Both are very important obviously but JJ is more important. Josh Smith is our best defensive player, by far...and Joe Johnson is our best offensive player, by far. but Joe Johnson is the man on this team..we dont score enough points to win without him because not only does he score but he creates for others and draws attention. We dont win alot of close 4th qt games without him either..he has proven to be a clutch performer. You can argue that JSmooth is more important but Im going with JJ on this one. he's our guy..our LeBron James and our Kobe! lol

First of all, thanks for the topic. This is alot better way of presenting this than the way I have in the past.

In response to this post, this is the problem. JJ is not Lebron/Kobe but we treat him as such. A better comparison is Stephen Jackson. Comparing them this year,

Johnson is 25.3 ppg, 5.4 reb, 4.9 ass, 1.7 stl, .7 blk with 3.3 TO.

Jackson is 21.9 ppg, 4.3 reb, 6.6 ass, 1.3 stl, .5 blk with 3.8 TO.

Johnson showing a little more but very similar. This is the ilk of Johnson and not the Kobe/Lebron everyone seens to place him in. A top 20 scorer at seasons end? absolutely and a good all around player. The real question was value. Who was more valuable? Not sure best player matters as they play different positions. I still say Smooth is more "valuable" but Johnson has definately stepped it up this year compared to last.

Johnson is markably better in all statistical categories this year except for assists and turnovers. Hopefully he is taking that next step.

[TruJerz]

First of all, thanks for the topic. This is alot better way of presenting this than the way I have in the past.

In response to this post, this is the problem. JJ is not Lebron/Kobe but we treat him as such. A better comparison is Stephen Jackson. Comparing them this year,

Johnson is 25.3 ppg, 5.4 reb, 4.9 ass, 1.7 stl, .7 blk with 3.3 TO.

Jackson is 21.9 ppg, 4.3 reb, 6.6 ass, 1.3 stl, .5 blk with 3.8 TO.

Johnson showing a little more but very similar. This is the ilk of Johnson and not the Kobe/Lebron everyone seens to place him in. A top 20 scorer at seasons end? absolutely and a good all around player. The real question was value. Who was more valuable? Not sure best player matters as they play different positions. I still say Smooth is more "valuable" but Johnson has definately stepped it up this year compared to last.

Johnson is markably better in all statistical categories this year except for assists and turnovers. Hopefully he is taking that next step.

respectable post.

to me there isnt much that seperates JJ from LeBron/Kobe, ect. I mean, Joe Johnson is one of the best overall players in the entire league! no matter which way u flip it or turn it. some very good players have several flaws..JJ has very few. i think you can argue that he is top 15 and is infact playing like a top 10 player as of now.

I think so far this year, the only players u can say is playing better than JJ are LeBron, CP3, Paul Pierce, Kobe, Duncan, Amare Stoudamire, Parker(when we played), and Howard. you can say JJ in the same sentence as all of these guys..to me he is elite! but at the same time, he doesnt get the calls that these superstars get so he still has a ways to go.

With that said, JJ is our MVP. JJ is batman and Josh Smith is Robin. JJ carries this team on his shoulders many nights. If JJ was the one injured and JSmooth was playing, i think we are below .500 right now, no?

[BusBoyIsBack]

My friend and I were having this debate.

Let's say the entire team is healthy, and you could only choose to have 1 on your team for an 82 game season...Who do you take? Do you take Smoove's shotblocking, explosiveness, and energy, or do you take JJ's amazing offensive prowess?

Who is the more valuable player?

I think they are equal. If we had Smoove instead of JJ our offense wouldn't be nearly as good.

Without Josh our defense suffers.

Remember folks JJ is 4th in the league in PPG.

[BusBoyIsBack]

First of all, thanks for the topic. This is alot better way of presenting this than the way I have in the past.

In response to this post, this is the problem. JJ is not Lebron/Kobe but we treat him as such. A better comparison is Stephen Jackson. Comparing them this year,

Johnson is 25.3 ppg, 5.4 reb, 4.9 ass, 1.7 stl, .7 blk with 3.3 TO.

Jackson is 21.9 ppg, 4.3 reb, 6.6 ass, 1.3 stl, .5 blk with 3.8 TO.

Johnson showing a little more but very similar. This is the ilk of Johnson and not the Kobe/Lebron everyone seens to place him in. A top 20 scorer at seasons end? absolutely and a good all around player. The real question was value. Who was more valuable? Not sure best player matters as they play different positions. I still say Smooth is more "valuable" but Johnson has definately stepped it up this year compared to last.

Johnson is markably better in all statistical categories this year except for assists and turnovers. Hopefully he is taking that next step.

That's a joke. Joe Johnson has better numbers than Stephen Jackson despite not playing in a gimmick offense. Instead of twice as many possessions a game in that run and shoot offense, JJ is in a real offense where he is subject to being double teamed.

As far as your so called, "little better" assessment, Joe Johnson is 13th in efficiency while Stephen Jackson is barely in the top 50.

Joe Johnson is a top 10 player in the NBA right now. It is absolutely insulting to compare him to Stephen Jackson

Edited November 21, 2008 by BusBoyIsBack

[Admin]

That's a joke. Joe Johnson has better numbers than Stephen Jackson despite not playing in a gimmick offense. Instead of twice as many possessions a game in that run and shoot offense, JJ is in a real offense where he is subject to being double teamed.

As far as your so called, "little better" assessment, Joe Johnson is 13th in efficiency while Stephen Jackson is barely in the top 50.

Joe Johnson is a top 10 player in the NBA right now. It is absolutely insulting to compare him to Stephen Jackson

While I certainly agree that JJ is better I don't think it's an insult to talk about he and Stephen Jackson being comparable, at least this year. I'd much rather have JJ for sure, but Jax has been pretty damn good this year and he's had to play PG quite a bit when I've watched the Warriors.

I'd sure love to have him back on the Hawks!

[BusBoyIsBack]

While I certainly agree that JJ is better I don't think it's an insult to talk about he and Stephen Jackson being comparable, at least this year. I'd much rather have JJ for sure, but Jax has been pretty damn good this year and he's had to play PG quite a bit when I've watched the Warriors.

I'd sure love to have him back on the Hawks!

Yeah but it's the Golden State offense. Anthony Morrow looks like the greatest SG of all-time in his first two games in that offense. Despite the advantage of that offense, there is a bigger gap in efficiency between Joe Johnson and Stephen Jackson than there is between Joe Johnson and Lebron James right now.

And I never want Stephen Jackson back after that shot he took at the Hawks a few years back. Fresh off of leaving Atlanta, he takes a shot at the Hawks on national TV when they beat a team saying "they played us tough, It's not like they are the Hawks".

Edited November 21, 2008 by BusBoyIsBack

[capstone21]

Yeah but it's the Golden State offense. Anthony Morrow looks like the greatest SG of all-time in his first two games in that offense. Despite the advantage of that offense, there is a bigger gap in efficiency between Joe Johnson and Stephen Jackson than there is between Joe Johnson and Lebron James right now.

And I never want Stephen Jackson back after that shot he took at the Hawks a few years back. Fresh off of leaving Atlanta, he takes a shot at the Hawks on national TV when they beat a team saying "they played us tough, It's not like they are the Hawks".

I don't think you do a stat comparison as a basis is as who the better player is. Stephen Jackson is a good player but he is not in JJ's class.

As for the difference between JJ and Josh. A major difference is bbiq. I just don't think SMith is that smart. He is extremely talented and his athleticism is heads and tails above Joe but as far as thinking the game out JJ wins by a mile. Josh makes so many dumb plays and takes so many bad shots (his jump shot is terrible but he keeps taking threes). A game earlier in the season in Philly when he helped pull us out, I thought he was responsible (along with Marvin) for getting us in the hole to begin with in the first half. They both get a lot of turnovers but Joe gets his by being focused on so much. Josh just gets a lot by just plain making dumb mistakes. Joe plays with more pressure in the game then Josh but handles it so much better.

[buckeye242424]

It's like comparing apples to oranges. Different styles, different roles, different meaningful contributions to the team. I would bet, although, if JJ was the one sitting out for a month, this board would be much more concerned than we seem right now. That being said, I would have to say that JJ is of more importance to the Hawks winning games than Smoove.

[exodus]

First of all, thanks for the topic. This is alot better way of presenting this than the way I have in the past.

In response to this post, this is the problem. JJ is not Lebron/Kobe but we treat him as such. A better comparison is Stephen Jackson. Comparing them this year,

Johnson is 25.3 ppg, 5.4 reb, 4.9 ass, 1.7 stl, .7 blk with 3.3 TO.

Jackson is 21.9 ppg, 4.3 reb, 6.6 ass, 1.3 stl, .5 blk with 3.8 TO.

Johnson showing a little more but very similar.

Stephen Jackson is shooting 37%, JJ 47%. JJ is shooting 44% from 3, jackson 25.6%.

[bronnt]

JJ is taking the same number of shots as Stephen Jackson and scoring three and a half more points, despite getting to the free throw less often as well. In terms of efficiency, JJ has had a terrible four game stretch and was still just as efficient scoring as Jackson has been the whole season.

The only thing that Stephen Jackson can bring that JJ can't is that he's extremely versatile and can play many positions. Not that JJ can't, but he's just so much better as a SG.

[capstone21]

JJ is taking the same number of shots as Stephen Jackson and scoring three and a half more points, despite getting to the free throw less often as well. In terms of efficiency, JJ has had a terrible four game stretch and was still just as efficient scoring as Jackson has been the whole season.

The only thing that Stephen Jackson can bring that JJ can't is that he's extremely versatile and can play many positions. Not that JJ can't, but he's just so much better as a SG.

I don't think that is completely true. The Hawks can comfortably play JJ at 3 positions (PG, SG and SF). He has actually played a lot of SF this season. He is just best at SG.

[High5]

We clearly need both, but Joe is without question the most important player on the team. He's the only player who can always find a way to score. Defenses focus on him which allows guys to get a lot of open looks.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

None of those pieces that you like on "this year's team" can function without JJ.

JJ is the target of most defenses.

Josh is definitely a defensive asset, but without JJ, we would fall apart offensively.

Right on the money D.

Without JJ, people like Marvin, Flip, Evans, Horford, and especially Smith, wouldn't be able to go at people one on one. None of those guys probably have ever faced a consistent double team in their entire NBA careers. Imagine the turnovers a guy like Marvin or Smith would have, if they faced a constant double team every night?

JJ accounts for more than 35 ppg every night ( when you count points + assists ). Plus he usually guards the toughest 2 or 3 on the other team. Plus he's our best distributor. Plus he's the guy on the team that can take and make difficult shots, even while being doubled. Even Bibby, with his offensive prowess at times, can't do that.

Take JJ away for an 82 game season, and this team doesn't survive at all. Maybe 30 wins, at best. And that's if guys like Smith, Horford, Marvin, and Acie all play up to their potential.

Josh is DEFINITELY the defensive glue of the team though. No denying that. His presence takes a potentially average team, and turns it to a potentially good team. We could survive without Smith. But we might just be simply mediocre, unless Horford became a monster at the 4 spot, and ZaZa played better D at the 5.