The ultimate curse of Knight isn't Chris Paul...

[macdaddy]

EVERYONE would pick Paul over Roy but that's not the question. I think the Sheldon pick was a bad one and I wonder if it was totally BKs call. I'm sure the owner's were freaking at the mention of Roy being added to a team with JJ/chill/Marvin/Smoove already.

Not getting Paul was a bad mistake but one most other gm's in the situation would have also made. The Sheldon pick was a much worse mistake. If we're judging mistakes. If we're picking which two players you would want between CP/Sheldon and Marvin/Roy I'd probably still go with CP/Sheldon.

[macdaddy]

I agree with this. But we still shoulda picked Roy instead of giving that crazy guarantee to Shelden Friggin Williams. Oh, and disregard some of these posts saying that Woody wouldn't play CP3. The posters who feel like that are just miffed about Law not getting the minutes they feel he deserves. I'm sure most of us here already know this, but for those who don't:

Paul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Law

I think everyone knows Paul is better than Law, but are Stuckey and Rondo that much better than Law. Everytime I see them I'm trying to figure out why they are successfully leading top teams and Law can't get off the bench.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think everyone knows Paul is better than Law, but are Stuckey and Rondo that much better than Law. Everytime I see them I'm trying to figure out why they are successfully leading top teams and Law can't get off the bench.

Because Rondo doesn't have anyone there who can remotely challenge him at the PG position. In Stuckey's case, he can play the 1 or the 2, and was a much needed scorer when Billups/Hamilton went to the bench. He's established himself as the 3rd guard on that team.

In Acie's case, he has Bibby ahead of him at the PG, and the combo of Flip/Evans ahead of him at the 2. In essence, Law is almost the 5th guard on the team, in the rotation.

I have to admit, I was waaaaaaaaaay off on how important Bibby is to this team, from an offensive standpoint. Right now, he's shooting over 47% FG and over 45% 3FG. Those would both be career highs for him, if he keeps that up. No way you could limit him to 24 - 28 minutes per game, like I suggested at the beginning of the year.

And when he's playing that well, Acie will see little time. The only way to increase Acie's minutes, is to get rid of Flip . . or for him to start totally outplaying Flip.

[capstone21]

it's Brandon Roy. Agree or disagree?

At the time, the rumors were that the Hawks steered clear of Roy not because of his talent, but his health.

SI.com

Since we had Joe I don't think we would have gotten Roy. I have a feeling it would have been Randy Foye who was thought of more of a pg then Roy. Foye is only a decent player (although much better option then Sheldon.) That really wasn't that great a draft year.

[mrhonline]

Ex, I'm pretty sure he was kidding...

7

:hush:

[AHF]

Because Rondo doesn't have anyone there who can remotely challenge him at the PG position. In Stuckey's case, he can play the 1 or the 2, and was a much needed scorer when Billups/Hamilton went to the bench. He's established himself as the 3rd guard on that team.

If Rondo was the other PG on this team, he would still clearly be the starter. Look at the per36 numbers for Rondo and Law especially bearing in mind that Rondo is more than a year younger:

Rondo

11.7 ppg

51.3 FG%

8.9 apg

5.4 rpg

2.5 spg

2.4 topg

Law

11.7 ppg

42.3 FG%

6.1 apg

4.7 rpg

0.2 spg

1.9 topg

[crimedog]

Shelden was the stupider pick, I can agree with that 10 times out of 10. There was 0 rationale for that one regardless of who else was available.

The question though, seems to be more related to which draft mistake cost the Hawks more in the long run (or short run) and to me, that's pretty easily not drafting Paul who is going to be the top player at his position for the near future and a perennial MVP candidate which is something that Roy (or Joe/Josh) are extremely unlikely to be.

[Traceman]

Since we had Joe I don't think we would have gotten Roy. I have a feeling it would have been Randy Foye who was thought of more of a pg then Roy. Foye is only a decent player (although much better option then Sheldon.) That really wasn't that great a draft year.

Roy was seen by many coming into the draft as a guy who could play some PG. JJ obviously can play some PG. I think they could have played together in the backcourt at times. Roy was certainly more of a PG than Chillz will ever be and we played him at PG at times.

Worst case scenario if we draft Roy, he starts at SG, JJ starts at SF and Marvin comes off the bench. I don't buy the talk about Woody starting Marvin over Roy at all. Roy would have been CLEARLY better than Marvin last year and his ceiling is every bit as high as Marvin's if not higher. Chillz' ceiling was never as high as Marvin's and woody was right to keep Marvin in thestarting lineup over him. More than likely though, Roy and JJ would have started together in the backcourt with Marvin at SF. We may have had a PG come in for Marvin at the 6 minute mark with Roy sliding to the 2 and JJ to the 3 and that would have been just fine.

[exodus]

Ex, I'm pretty sure he was kidding...

7

No, he wasn't.

[jerrywest]

would you trade

Paul + Shelden

for

Roy + Marvin

?

[mrhonline]

I didn't have any predetermined opinion when I started this thread, so I can certainly understand those disagreeing because Paul is an MVP candidate...

...but I do think people are selling Roy short a bit. His numbers last year at his age were spectacular for a guard, and relatively similar to the numbers that pre-injury Penny Hardaway was putting up.

[capstone21]

Roy was seen by many coming into the draft as a guy who could play some PG. JJ obviously can play some PG. I think they could have played together in the backcourt at times. Roy was certainly more of a PG than Chillz will ever be and we played him at PG at times.

Worst case scenario if we draft Roy, he starts at SG, JJ starts at SF and Marvin comes off the bench. I don't buy the talk about Woody starting Marvin over Roy at all. Roy would have been CLEARLY better than Marvin last year and his ceiling is every bit as high as Marvin's if not higher. Chillz' ceiling was never as high as Marvin's and woody was right to keep Marvin in thestarting lineup over him. More than likely though, Roy and JJ would have started together in the backcourt with Marvin at SF. We may have had a PG come in for Marvin at the 6 minute mark with Roy sliding to the 2 and JJ to the 3 and that would have been just fine.

I agree that JJ and Roy could have definetely coexisted and complemented each other.

However, Roy was thought of as having the ability to play some pg but he was thought of as a sg.

Foye was thought to be a pure and best pg in the draft and we needed a real pg and a big.

I really believe that if we didn't go with Sheldon we would have taken Foye.

[exodus]

I agree that JJ and Roy could have definetely coexisted and complemented each other.

However, Roy was thought of as having the ability to play some pg but he was thought of as a sg.

Foye was thought to be a pure and best pg in the draft and we needed a real pg and a big.

I really believe that if we didn't go with Sheldon we would have taken Foye.

Foye was seen as a combo guard. He hardly played the point at all in college and was a big time chucker. he actually played the 4 quite a bit in his senior year since they played 4 guards a lot.

His shot selection would made Salim look gunshy.

[Traceman]

Foye was seen as a combo guard. He hardly played the point at all in college and was a big time chucker. he actually played the 4 quite a bit in his senior year since they played 4 guards a lot.

His shot selection would made Salim look gunshy.

Agreed. I think Foye was seen by some to be more of a PG than Roy due to his size but Roy actually played more like one in college. I didn't (stilll don't) think either of them was a true PG but I thought both could play there some. Since I thought Roy was going to be the better player between the two, I would have taken him over Foye but I would have taken either of them over Shelden. I thought Rudy Gay was going to be better than Shelden too but I just couldn't fathom BK taking yet ANOTHER SF.

[Diesel]

it's Brandon Roy. Agree or disagree?

At the time, the rumors were that the Hawks steered clear of Roy not because of his talent, but his health.

SI.com

Disagree.

Paul is the best PG in the game and will be for probably the next 7 years. Roy is just a weak duplication of Joe Johnson.

[Diesel]

Woody wouldn't have played Paul anyway

He wouldn't have played Roy either.

[jerrywest]

Do you think Portland would trade Roy+Aldridge for Paul?

[Diesel]

EVERYONE would pick Paul over Roy but that's not the question. I think the Sheldon pick was a bad one and I wonder if it was totally BKs call. I'm sure the owner's were freaking at the mention of Roy being added to a team with JJ/chill/Marvin/Smoove already.

Not getting Paul was a bad mistake but one most other gm's in the situation would have also made. The Sheldon pick was a much worse mistake. If we're judging mistakes. If we're picking which two players you would want between CP/Sheldon and Marvin/Roy I'd probably still go with CP/Sheldon.

Actually that is the question. It's the only question there is really.

Now if you want to discuss the merits of making the pick.

We needed frontcourt help,

Shelden was a good front court college player.... the best available at the time we picked.

So the Shelden pick was not a goof in terms of fixing need. It's Shelden's fault that he didn't turn out to be Al Horford.

However,

we picked a Sf when we had 5 Sf on the roster.

We picked a SF that would take 4 years to develop into a set shot shooter.'

Chris Paul is an MVP candidate for the next 7 years.

tHat is what you call a Goof.

[Diesel]

Shelden was the stupider pick, I can agree with that 10 times out of 10. There was 0 rationale for that one regardless of who else was available.

Let's remove hindsight from the equation.

What's stupid about filling a desperate need?

IS it more stupid to fill a desperate need or to take a player who plays a position that we already have filled.?

[Traceman]

Disagree.

Paul is the best PG in the game and will be for probably the next 7 years. Roy is just a weak duplication of Joe Johnson.

Paul is the best PG in the game but Roy is a weak duplication of NOBODY. That kid can play and he will be an All Star every year for quite some time.

Jerrywest posed the question would you take Paul and Shelden or Roy and Marvin. I'd take Paul (who cares about Shelden) but it is damn close. Would we be better with:

Paul

JJ

Smoove

Horford

Shelden

or

Roy

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Horford

Good question.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Traceman