'Squawk illogic I've never understood.

[PureGreatness]

there is something called an "UGLY WIN" and this was one. everybody except marvin played ugly. oh well im not finna sit her and b*tch and complain talking bout "oh smith took 5 threes" or "joe is cold tonight and turning the ball over". Yes smith played bad but so did joe and others. There is 82 games in a season i cant b*tch about everyone of them. but i let yall back to yalls cat fight. MEOW

peace!

[Wretch]

They really played like crap tonight. How can you make 17 turnovers against that defense?

The Knicks had no interior D so why did Smith take 5 three's?

Answer:

[hawkman]

The responses to this thread go hand in hand with one of my earlier posts. Any win we've gotten this season has been virtually unenjoyable around here. How in the world could someone say that Marv was the ONLY person who played well last night? I looked at the game and then had to look at the boxscore again AFTER reading some of the posts on this board. JJ had 6 TO's and Bibby had a tough shooting night, but BOTH of those players made clutch plays at the end of the game. Bibby still had 9 assists as well. Heck, JJ has been playing a decent all around game despite his scoring/injury issues. Horf played solid as usual. Smoove played great except for a few boneheaded plays here and there. Both Flip AND Mo played great off the bench. Zaza was his usual scrappy self. I can understand the need to critique a game afterwards, but It's getting difficult to tell whether we have won or lost games based on the responses on this board. It's obvious that to some posters here, even a win is a joyless experience. What's the point of even watching the Hawks play if you feel/react/post the same way whether they win or lose?

:brick wall:

Edited December 6, 2008 by hawkman

[bronnt]

Actually, last night was kind of encouraging. The Hawks are the best 3 point shooting team in the league, and on a night when their best shooting was Mike Bibby's 2/8, they still pulled out a win. Combine that with all of the turnovers and a complete lack of the good ball movement we've been seeing, and it was hard to watch.

Basically, they played awfully, against a team that's not quite as bad as you think they are, and still pulled out a win.

[exodus]

The responses to this thread go hand in hand with one of my earlier posts. Any win we've gotten this season has been virtually unenjoyable around here. How in the world could someone say that Marv was the ONLY person who played well last night? I looked at the game and then had to look at the boxscore again AFTER reading some of the posts on this board. JJ had 6 TO's and Bibby had a tough shooting night, but BOTH of those players made clutch plays at the end of the game. Bibby still had 9 assists as well. Heck, JJ has been playing a decent all around game despite his scoring/injury issues. Horf played solid as usual. Smoove played great except for a few boneheaded plays here and there. Both Flip AND Mo played great off the bench. Zaza was his usual scrappy self. I can understand the need to critique a game afterwards, but It's getting difficult to tell whether we have won or lost games based on the responses on this board. It's obvious that to some posters here, even a win is a joyless experience. What's the point of even watching the Hawks play if you feel/react/post the same way whether they win or lose?

:brick wall:

It isn't that simple.

Since the Hawks have been losers for years we have become conditioned to think not just in terms of wins and losses. If we thought that way this board wouldn't have had many posts the last few years.

Ultimately the way a team plays is what determines the record at the end of the year. that is what people are paying attention to, how the team plays. If you have bad habits that you keep repeating it is just a matter of time until it bites you in the ass. Just because you escape with wins in poorly played games early in the year doesn't mean you can win consistently that way all season long.

[hawkman]

It isn't that simple.

Since the Hawks have been losers for years we have become conditioned to think not just in terms of wins and losses. If we thought that way this board wouldn't have had many posts the last few years.

Ultimately the way a team plays is what determines the record at the end of the year. that is what people are paying attention to, how the team plays. If you have bad habits that you keep repeating it is just a matter of time until it bites you in the ass. Just because you escape with wins in poorly played games early in the year doesn't mean you can win consistently that way all season long.

I know one of the important thing is how the team plays, but a win is still a win. If we win WHILE displaying some of the bad habits that so many here harp on, doesn't that mean that we were still the better team? That game last night is a good example of NY's play being contagious. We're not the only team to fall victim to that. Opponents of the Suns, Mavs, and the Warriors experience this same thing. Our biggest issue has been us playing to the level of the opponent, whether that opponet is a good team or a bad team. That kinda comes from us not having much of an identity, other than shooting 3's. We never really dictate the tempo of a game from start to finish. But still, we manage to win and that's something that we could NEVER say in seasons past. All I'm saying is, if you can't sit back and enjoy the games now, then when?

Edited December 6, 2008 by hawkman

[exodus]

I know one of the important thing is how the team plays, but a win is still a win. If we win WHILE displaying some of the bad habits that so many here harp on, doesn't that mean that we were still the better team? That game last night is a good example of NY's play being contagious. We're not the only team to fall victim to that. Opponents of the Suns, Mavs, and the Warriors experience this same thing. Our biggest issue has been us playing to the level of the opponent, whether that opponet is a good team or a bad team. That kinda comes from us not having much of an identity, other than shooting 3's. We never really dictate the tempo of a game from start to finish. But still, we manage to win and that's something that we could NEVER say in seasons past. All I'm saying is, if you can't sit back and enjoy the games now, then when?

Most of the people on this board have been Hawks fans for years. If they didn't enjoy watching the games they would have stopped a long time ago.

The people here know that good teams stomp on inferior teams when they get them down. The hawks had a 17 pt 2nd half lead cut to zero against the Wizards. They had a 26 pt lead cut to 6 against Memphis. If the Hawks keep letting poor teams hang around they are going to start losing games like that. It is inevitable.

[mrhonline]

Most of the people on this board have been Hawks fans for years. If they didn't enjoy watching the games they would have stopped a long time ago.

The people here know that good teams stomp on inferior teams when they get them down. The hawks had a 17 pt 2nd half lead cut to zero against the Wizards. They had a 26 pt lead cut to 6 against Memphis. If the Hawks keep letting poor teams hang around they are going to start losing games like that. It is inevitable.

The people here also know that the Hawks without a healthy Smith are NOT a good team. Until Smith is 100% ready to go, why are we even having this discussion?

[exodus]

The people here also know that the Hawks without a healthy Smith are NOT a good team. Until Smith is 100% ready to go, why are we even having this discussion?

Other teams have injuries too.

Just because Smith is out or not 100% isn't a reason for the Hawks to blow huge second half leads aganst poor teams. It isn't a reason for Smith to jack up 5 three pointers when the other team has no interior D.

[hawkman]

Other teams have injuries too.

Just because Smith is out or not 100% isn't a reason for the Hawks to blow huge second half leads aganst poor teams. It isn't a reason for Smith to jack up 5 three pointers when the other team has no interior D.

Smith took some wide open threes. What's the big deal? He gives us sooooo much in terms of post scoring, rebounding, and defense. Why is everything so negative around here? The dude shot 50% from the field last night, scored in the post, and made some great passes. That's what I mean when I say that things are so joyless around here.

:computer8:

[mrhonline]

Other teams have injuries too.

Just because Smith is out or not 100% isn't a reason for the Hawks to blow huge second half leads aganst poor teams. It isn't a reason for Smith to jack up 5 three pointers when the other team has no interior D.

Nope.

Blowing leads is part of the NBA. Teams make runs, it's inevitable even against poor teams.

Only the GREAT teams demolish every team in their path. And we all know the Hawks aren't a GREAT team.

Personally, at this point in their growth, I only expect the Hawks to win. I don't care how it happens. As they improve, we can get more picky. But for now, this team (Smith, JJ, Marvin, etc.) has never had a winning season. One step at a time.

[hawkman]

Nope.

Blowing leads is part of the NBA. Teams make runs, it's inevitable even against poor teams.

Only the GREAT teams demolish every team in their path. And we all know the Hawks aren't a GREAT team.

Personally, at this point in their growth, I only expect the Hawks to win. I don't care how it happens. As they improve, we can get more picky. But for now, this team (Smith, JJ, Marvin, etc.) has never had a winning season. One step at a time.

Thankyou. You said what I meant to say eloquently. We haven't been this good at this point in a season in almost a decade. We should savor this while we can.

[Peoriabird]

Other teams have injuries too.

Just because Smith is out or not 100% isn't a reason for the Hawks to blow huge second half leads aganst poor teams. It isn't a reason for Smith to jack up 5 three pointers when the other team has no interior D.

You are attempting to explain some very basis things Ex and it seems as though you are talking to box score watchers versus educated fans. For anybody to celebrate a poorly play game against an inferior opponent with key injuries either hasn't watched these games or doesn't understand basketball that well. You do not see Boston or the Lakers playing disorganized basketball like this ever!!!!!!! The Hawks make the same stupid mistakes that could be eliminated with one practice or fine.

1) Josh Smith should not be taking 3 point shots unless there are no other choices

2) Zaza should not post up and try to shoot over anybody unless his defender is under 6'5"

3) Zaza should not be involved in any pick and roll because over half the time he commits an offensive foul

4) Iso joe should not be our primary offensive set

5) The ball should be shared by more than 2 people on most offensive sets

6) Flip Murray should not run point ever unless every other point guard on the roster is out

7) Bibby's primary offensive play run should be the pick and roll!

[crimedog]

Yeah, the doom and gloom is a little funny. Last night was a pretty obvious example of taking a team for granted and not coming out with a cogent gameplan or a lot of energy.

I didn't like Smith's 3s, obviously, but especially because when he posted up he pretty much scored at will. We need to realize when that is working and go to it, partially because it gives us more points and partially because it reinforces good behavior which is just as important as punishing bad behavior.

I would have liked to see Joe take it to the hole more, would have liked to see him turn the ball over less too but usually its one or the other... he had a bad game in a win. Let it go.

The entire D was sluggish. A lot of that is on the players but Mike D did a good job spreading the floor and pushing the pace as he does. He forced Smith/Al to choose between guarding some shooting F/C on the wing or coming all the way in to give help on whatever player had penetrated. Good on them, we should have punished them for it by going inside to Al and Josh because that was working when we tried it, but alas we didn't.

I am curious about Al, his post game looked alright but he hasn't been dominating the glass this season. Not just in the number of boards, but last season he would be flying around in space to snag long boards.

Lets hope the weak effort from last night means the guys aren't too tired but on the whole it wasn't too bad. Marv had 18 pts and 3 steals. Smith went 16-8-5-2 on 50%. Bibby who "is basically a shooting guard" according to most of the Acie jockers on here, had 9 dishes. Al had 14 points on 7 shots...

I would have liked to see better effort on D. Would have liked to see Joe go nuts. On the other hand, we pulled out a W when we played sluggish so hopefully we'll be able to beat good teams when we get up to play them.

[mrhonline]

For anybody to celebrate a poorly play game against an inferior opponent with key injuries either hasn't watched these games or doesn't understand basketball that well.

Edited December 6, 2008 by mrhonline

[exodus]

Smith took some wide open threes. What's the big deal? He gives us sooooo much in terms of post scoring, rebounding, and defense. Why is everything so negative around here? The dude shot 50% from the field last night, scored in the post, and made some great passes. That's what I mean when I say that things are so joyless around here.

:computer8:

Smith could have scored inside whenever he wanted last night. Who was going to stop him? He could have lit them up inside if he actually tried to. He shot 70% inside the arc and that is where all his shots should have come from.

I doesn't matter that his 3s were open. of course they are going to be open. Why would anyone guard him behind the line? When Smith is spotting up outside the 3 pt line he is doing exactly what the other team wants him to do.

The Hawks became the number 1 three point shooting percentage team when Smith was out. We don't need him to be outside jacking 3s. We have other guys who can shoot 3s.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Our fan base seems to have a lot of negativity. I think it stems from the lack of success this team has in its history.

Even when it looks like we've turned the corner our fan base remains pessimistic and skeptical about it.

[exodus]

Nope.

Blowing leads is part of the NBA. Teams make runs, it's inevitable even against poor teams.

Only the GREAT teams demolish every team in their path. And we all know the Hawks aren't a GREAT team.

Personally, at this point in their growth, I only expect the Hawks to win. I don't care how it happens. As they improve, we can get more picky. But for now, this team (Smith, JJ, Marvin, etc.) has never had a winning season. One step at a time.

Some teams make runs because they actually are good and/or are playing well. But when you have a big lead and start throwing the ball away or let up then it is your own fault. If theHawks don't clean up their play they could wind up underachieving just like last year.

The Hawks were two games over .500 in December last year but wound up with only 37 wins.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Some teams make runs because they actually are good and/or are playing well. But when you have a big lead and start throwing the ball away or let up then it is your own fault. If theHawks don't clean up their play they could wind up underachieving just like last year.

The Hawks were two games over .500 in December last year but wound up with only 37 wins.

Dude last year we didn't win 6 games until it was almost December.

This year we started the year 6-0.

Last year we were never even more than 3 games over .500.

This team is far better than last year's in terms of focus and quite frankly talent

[exodus]

Dude last year we didn't win 6 games until it was almost December.

This year we started the year 6-0.

Last year we were never even more than 3 games over .500.

This team is far better than last year's in terms of focus and quite frankly talent

Last year the Hawks were 15-12 on Dec 26. They lost 12 of their next 16.

Over the course of a season there will be good and bad streaks. But there are things that you can control completely.

So far this year Brand, Amare and Boozer have shot a combined total of 3 three pointers. They are all far better jump shooters than Smith.

Smith has taken 17 threes in 6 games. That is inexcusable.