Hawks vs Pistons

[AHF]

If this was woodson's call then I'll take it back but that remains to be seen. but even Woodson can't be that damn stupid to have joe take all of the shots down the stretch with Bibby shooting the way he was shooting. If the coaching staff was responsible for this, then they are the dumbest staff in the league

They ran the same iso Joe play out of TOs down the stretch. What other explanation is there except that this is what they wanted?

[Gray Mule]

Someone please tell Woody / JJ or whoever is responsible for what was happening

in the last half of the 4th quarter. We've saw this so much:

Joe Johnson is not the only player on the offensive floor for Atlanta.

JJ is good. No question of that. However, this is an insult to the other four players

on the floor, whoever they are. "We don't trust you with the ball in your hands. If

JJ wants to dribble out the clock with a double team or dribble until he loses the

ball, that's fine. Just don't let any other Hawk touch the ball."

Whether it's JJ or Woody's idea, I don't like it. It's bad. It's worse than bad, it's

crazy. That's putting too much pressure on JJ, whether it's his idea or Woody's.

To me, this falls in the same catagory as Josh Smith being given the responsibility

of winning the game by taking nothing but jump shots for the entire game when he

has a cold shooting hand.

Hawks win and we complain!! How about that!

GO FALCONS!! THEY WON TODAY!!

GO HAWKS!! THEY WON TODAY !!

[Plainview1981]

Someone please tell Woody / JJ or whoever is responsible for what was happening

in the last half of the 4th quarter. We've saw this so much:

Joe Johnson is not the only player on the offensive floor for Atlanta.

JJ is good. No question of that. However, this is an insult to the other four players

on the floor, whoever they are. "We don't trust you with the ball in your hands. If

JJ wants to dribble out the clock with a double team or dribble until he loses the

ball, that's fine. Just don't let any other Hawk touch the ball."

Whether it's JJ or Woody's idea, I don't like it. It's bad. It's worse than bad, it's

crazy. That's putting too much pressure on JJ, whether it's his idea or Woody's.

To me, this falls in the same catagory as Josh Smith being given the responsibility

of winning the game by taking nothing but jump shots for the entire game when he

has a cold shooting hand.

Hawks win and we complain!! How about that!

GO FALCONS!! THEY WON TODAY!!

GO HAWKS!! THEY WON TODAY !!

It was a good and very important win. It's just ashame that they have to play like idiots to get the win. Big win though. These are games they will have to win to maintain a top 5 playoff spot.

[AHF]

Whether it's JJ or Woody's idea, I don't like it. It's bad. It's worse than bad, it's

crazy. That's putting too much pressure on JJ, whether it's his idea or Woody's.

If it was not Woody's idea he should have yanked JJ off the floor.

The fact is, though, that this strategy was not that different from the normal "iso Joe" offense we see down the stretch. Joe was just less effective than usual which made it even more painful to watch.

If Joe was supposed to move the ball around and not hold it, those are what time outs are for.

Either way, it is blatant coaching incompetence.

[DrReality]

And we still won. Was it luck that we overcame his incompetence? Maturity? Talent? We have to learn to make adjustments when JJ is not hitting.

[Plainview1981]

And we still won. Was it luck that we overcame his incompetence? Maturity? Talent? We have to learn to make adjustments when JJ is not hitting.

It was good defense. If this continues I will have to admit I was wrong about the defense.

[Cwell]

If this was woodson's call then I'll take it back but that remains to be seen. but even Woodson can't be that damn stupid to have joe take all of the shots down the stretch with Bibby shooting the way he was shooting. If the coaching staff was responsible for this, then they are the dumbest staff in the league

Woody said last year that he don't listen to his assistants. They might have some brains but Woody is gonna be stupid no matter what his coaches tell him.

[Admin]

Woody said last year that he don't listen to his assistants. They might have some brains but Woody is gonna be stupid no matter what his coaches tell him.

Please find me a quote to back that statement up. I have an extremely difficult time believing that Woody doesn't listen to his assistants, much less that he'd say it publicly.

[thefloydian]

Watching these games is fun even if they're painful in a lot of ways because it tells me that if/when this team actually decides to play with some kind of offensive idenity/intelligence they will be very good.

[Duff_Man]

I can't sleep, so I came in here to say good win again by the Hawks. Winning ugly is still winning, and it should be a joy watching this team throughout the year. Between the Hawks and the Falcons, I am over-loaded with boyish glee!

[frosgrim]

Please find me a quote to back that statement up. I have an extremely difficult time believing that Woody doesn't listen to his assistants, much less that he'd say it publicly.

Dol, I know what Cwell is refering to.

Last year when the team went to the 7 man rotation, Woodson said that his assistants disagreed with the move, but Woody said he did it anyways. Its not that he didn't listen to his assistants, but he didn't go with their recomendation. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case now as well. I seriously doubt that Mark Price would advocate iso after iso after iso as legitimate NBA offense...

It all comes down to Woodson wanting to win every game, but not knowing how to get the team there. Worse, he still doesn't understand how to make in-game changes. He just sticks what worked in the past.

[crimedog]

If this was woodson's call then I'll take it back but that remains to be seen. but even Woodson can't be that damn stupid to have joe take all of the shots down the stretch with Bibby shooting the way he was shooting. If the coaching staff was responsible for this, then they are the dumbest staff in the league

The fourth Q strategy when the Hawks have the lead has been the same thing the past two years. Its a football strategy, you run at the end of the game and put the game in your defense' hands. Last season it backfired on us most of the time (like that ill-fated Portland game) but this season our defense has been good enough to make it work at least a little bit.

However, like the strategy in football, its dangerous because you aren't looking for good shots, you are just looking to kill clock, but your opponents are looking for transition points and 3pters so they have a much better shot at gaining ground than you do at distancing (we saw it in the Falcons-Vikings game, but our D was good enough).

On our team that means the strategy is to take all the time we can getting the ball into play so once the ball is up to the top of the key, we've already killed ten seconds, than Joe surveys the scen for another 7 seconds and makes a decision as to what to do with the ball. Since the timeline is so compressed at that point and guys have been keeping away from Joe (spread out so that the extra defender can't come and rip the ball away), Joe isn't always in a position to make a pass to the hot hand and might think its better to take a shot himself or pass it off to the guy who is most open for a jumper (hello Josh Smith from 18 feet!). The upside is that its a good 23 seconds that the opposing team doesn't have to score and when Joe is playing well, we have an decent shot of getting points and killing clock.

Anyway, I don't think its a bad strategy. It works for the Spurs, it worked for the Pistons, it works for the Celtics. Those teams are also better equipped to play that game, thats the problem.

[frosgrim]

Anyway, I don't think its a bad strategy. It works for the Spurs, it worked for the Pistons, it works for the Celtics. Those teams are also better equipped to play that game, thats the problem.

Huh? Those teams rotate the ball into the post and then back out again. The Cs got good shots towards then end of the shot clock becuase 4/5 of the team touched the ball during the posession. There is also the threat of a guy cutting to the basket.

In terms of the Spurs, they dump the ball into Duncan and then he makes a choice of what to do, including sending it right back out and around the perimeter. That Duncan can post up and pass the ball is one of the reasons that Bowen had so many open 3s during the Spurs run.

I could go on, but the point is that the good offensive teams utilize a good portion of the guys on the court during any offensive possesion. By having all guys be threats, the whole of the court opens up. Playing iso every freakin' possesion is a good way to kill momentum and get the other team back into the game.

In sum, Woodson plays dumb offensive basketball, esp with the athletic Hawks.

[crimedog]

Huh? Those teams rotate the ball into the post and then back out again. The Cs got good shots towards then end of the shot clock becuase 4/5 of the team touched the ball during the posession. There is also the threat of a guy cutting to the basket.

In terms of the Spurs, they dump the ball into Duncan and then he makes a choice of what to do, including sending it right back out and around the perimeter. That Duncan can post up and pass the ball is one of the reasons that Bowen had so many open 3s during the Spurs run.

I could go on, but the point is that the good offensive teams utilize a good portion of the guys on the court during any offensive possesion. By having all guys be threats, the whole of the court opens up. Playing iso every freakin' possesion is a good way to kill momentum and get the other team back into the game.

In sum, Woodson plays dumb offensive basketball, esp with the athletic Hawks.

Conceded.

... and even the Pistons were running Rip off of 2 or 3 screens while Chauncey burned clock.

[NBASupes]

On 12/21/2008 at 3:04 PM, mrhonline said:

Iso Joe sucks.

 

MOVE THE BALL!

What went from an offense became a namesake

[AHF]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

What went from an offense became a namesake

The blame for total iso ball and automatic switching defense all resides on Mike "I play for the regular season not the post-season!" Woodson.  JJ did just fine in ball moving offenses outside of Atlanta and could have played in a more versatile system here but that isn't what Woody wanted.