21-10 who believed?

[gsuteke]

I think the 6+ years shows i'm a true Hawk fan. I was a fan when we had Smitty,Blaylock and Deke and I was a fan when we had JT and a bunch of trash. Just because i'm not on the computer 24/7 means what exactly??

it means you must have missed this thread. Please read the initial post.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....howtopic=334549

[Nicholasp27]

fully endorse jjbacker's post

i used to post a ton but don't much now for that same reason; too much negativity, sky is falling, etc posts b/c too many people don't remember what it's like to have hope and be positive about the team

i guess it's kinda a self-fulfilling prophecy when all the positive people on the board stop posting because of the negativity, as it only leaves the negativity left, etc etc

maybe we should make a new year's resolution to start posting more, injecting positivity into the board and just maybe the community's attitude can start to change

[gsuteke]

fully endorse jjbacker's post

i used to post a ton but don't much now for that same reason; too much negativity, sky is falling, etc posts b/c too many people don't remember what it's like to have hope and be positive about the team

i guess it's kinda a self-fulfilling prophecy when all the positive people on the board stop posting because of the negativity, as it only leaves the negativity left, etc etc

maybe we should make a new year's resolution to start posting more, injecting positivity into the board and just maybe the community's attitude can start to change

It all starts with you.

Corndogs for everyone my friend!

[LOL_Hawks]

(Prefacing this with an apology for the length)

I'm typically not one to assume I know what another's intentions were... likewise, I'm not a huge fan of putting words into someone's mouth...

but...

I think the point of the original post was not to get a summary of the game... or a recap... or what went right or wrong... I think (and apologies to teke if I read this wrong) the point was:

"Big picture - let's focus on the fact that the Atlanta Hawks are 21-10 right now. I don't know what happened over the last two games. I don't know who did what to whom. I don't know who made certain mistakes or who choked, or who took a bad three... I just know we won. And we've won 21 times this season before January - and as much as we all might get real wrapped up in each minute of each game... the fact we're winning is what is most important. And not finding the negatives to point out (because there will always be negatives) isn't actually a bad thing."

I don't post much on here because I think (and no offense to anyone) the moods on this thing are roller coaster. I also think there's much more time focusing on the negatives than the positives. I check in multiple times a day to just get a feel for things, but I rarely post. It's too negative. We have 8+ pages devoted to a "Joe choked" thread after a loss to Boston, yet not one post devoted to "Joe had a triple double" or "Joe just went for 41" or "Joe just outplayed Melo" or "Joe carried us in the 4th quarter - and his clinching 3 WAS MONEY (in particular the walking down the court with hand up)."

(Sidenote: Did anyone notice the following Friday - just two nights after Joe's infamous miss - DWade missed a free throw in the final seconds that could have extened the Heat's lead and Kobe missed the jumper that would have tied it. Given - a free throw is easier than a fall-away jumper with Shawn Marion all over you... but just saying. Also - no one points out Joe hit two of two with like 45 seconds to go in the game. And did anyone in Portland do the choke thing last night when Paul Pierce missed a free throw in the 4th quarter as his Celtics were trying to avoid a three-game losing streak? I guess my point is - everybody misses. Joe's hit plenty of buckets in the clutch... no reason to think he won't continue to hit big buckets. He just yipped on that night.. that's it.)

I get to read about "I don't understand Josh Smith" or "Josh Smith needs to STOP shooting 3s" or "Our interior defense is atrocious" instead of "Josh Smith doing well despite injury" or "give smoove some credit for playing hurt"...

Now, before I get killed for being "too positive" I'll tell you I'm plenty negative, too. But at the end of the day - we're 21-10.

On Jan 1 - here's what we're historically looking at:

2000 - 11 - 18

2001 - 10 - 20

2002 - 11 - 19

2003 - 12 - 18

2004 - 9 - 24

2005 - 5 - 23

2006 - 7 - 21 (Joe's first season with Hawks)

2007 - 9 - 20

2008 - 15 - 13

2009 - 21 - 10

I mean - seriously? Why all the hate?

Do I think Woody is a great coach? Nope

Do I think Joe is as good as LeBron? Nope

Do I think Smoove makes some bad decisions fairly regularly? Yup

Do I think Bibby is a terrible defender? Yup

Do I think Marvin should be better than he is? Yup

Do I think the Hawks struggle with teams they ought not struggle with? Sure.

However - (sarcasm alert) despite our idiot coach, our crappy all-star who chokes and isn't good enough to be a "real" superstar, our idiot SF/PF who consistently makes bad decisions, our bust SF/PF that isn't Chris Paul, our PG that can't D up a chair, and our teams inability to blow out crappy teams because they play down to the level of their competition.... WE'RE 21-10!!!

1) I think coaches in the NBA are over-rated. If you've got good players, your team will likely be good. If you've got crappy players, your team will be crappy. Coaches make their mark in close games in April, May and most notably JUNE. The rest of the time - the coach is only as good as his players.

2) I’ve said this for a almost two years now - Joe's not LeBron, DWade (when healthy), Kobe... but he's pretty much better than all of the other swingmen 2/3 combo's in the League. When the Hawks signed him (in 05) - he got a contract smaller than the Supersonics gave Ray Allen to stay in Seattle and the Bucks gave Michael Redd to stay in Milwaukee. The Cavs signed Larry Hughes away from Washington to the same contract Joe got from Atlanta to leave (via sign-and-trade) Phoenix. Do you think the Thunder (or Celtics because that's where Ray is now), Bucks or Cavs (or Bulls because that's where Hughes is now) wouldn't take Joe Johnson even up for what they've got? Other than the following teams (and I'm being generous for the haters) -

Miami (Wade)

LA Lakers (Bryant)

Portland (Roy - I have more of a problem that we took S. Williams than I do that we took M. Williams, btw)

Cleveland (James)

Washington (Butler)

Indiana (Granger)

Boston (Pierce)

Oklahoma City (Durant)

- any other team would trade their best "swingman" player in a heartbeat even up for Joe Johnson. I personally think Wade (when healthy), Bryant and James are on a different level than everybody else at the 2/3. I'd take Joe over Roy, Butler, Granger, Pierce and Durant... but I included those players because if I was a fan of the Blazers, Wizards, Pacers, Celtics, or Thunder I'd probably have some difficulty trading "my guy" for Joe Johnson. But being on this side - if the Hawks traded Joe for Butler even up - I would be outraged. Roy I can see (but his injury problems worry me). Durant would make sense in terms of age - but I'm not as blown away by KD as others are... Granger's nice... but I'd say he's at now where Joe was at in 2006... and I'm not sure if Granger would ever be better than Joe. Pierce was huge last year in the playoffs and he's definitely got game... but I take Joe over him.

So what are we looking at with Joe? Possibly the 4th best swingman behind Wade, Kobe and LBJ? I'll take that.

3) Josh is irritating... but he's young. I wish he'd dribble less, shoot less, try and pass less, etc. I said it over a year ago - the sooner he realizes he's a bigger, buffer version of Shawn Marion - the better. But I'm willing to be patient. And we extended him on the cheap (thanks Memphis) for what he can become.

4) Bibby’s never been a good defender. But he hits clutch buckets.

5) Marvin’s developing slower than I'd like, but he still shows flashes. He might not ever be worth the 2nd pick in the draft... but going into the 05 draft the big debate was Williams vs. Bogut for the #1 slot. The Hawks were going to take whomever the Bucks didn't take. And... at the time of the draft - we didn't have Joe Johnson. Had the draft occurred in August of 05 (after Joe was signed) I'm willing to wager BK would have taken Paul or Williams. But the prevailing wisdom in June was that the Suns would take care of Joe (especially after the draft night deal in which the Suns sent Q Rich and the rights to Nate Robinson to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas... freeing up money for Joe).

The bottom line for me? All teams have flaws. Heck, the Celtics lost to the Warriors! And the Blazers (playing without BROY)! We've beaten the Cavs. We struggled in Texas (a lot of teams do). We've beaten the Pistons. We've beaten the Nuggets. We're much better at home than we are on the road (lots of young teams are). We occasionally play down to inferior teams (lots of teams do). Our best player occasionally throws up some stinkers (he's still better than a vast majority of other players that play the same positions, and plenty of good players have crappy nights)... we're 21-10. Be happy.

I guess I liked teke's post because I thought it provided a little "take a step back guys" type vibe (and a little levity goes a long way around here)... and the thread turned into a critical summary of a game we just won. One in which I read positives about Diener and Jack, got backhanded compliments for Smoove, heard that Harris and Carter will torch us, etc. WTF? Keep game summaries in the game summary thread. Resist the urge to post negative garbage in response to a thread that basically just said, "hey I didn't get to see the game... I didn't get to get distracted by all the negativity... I didn't get frustrated at the TV... I just saw we won... and we're 21-10 now.. and that's pretty cool."

My reply to teke's lovely post -

you're right, teke. It's pretty cool. Happy 2009 everybody... the future is looking up.

5-star post. Pretty much everything that I wanted to say in this thread has been said.

I'm just going to enjoy the ride. 21-10 at this time of year for this team is great.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The above post needs to be stickied. It is truly the post of the year.

I agree.

Maybe the best post in the last 3 years on this board.

[exodus]

the criticism that JJ gets here mystifies me and obviously gets on my last nerve. I guess some people expected a 17 ppg player to suddenly become a 30 ppg player just because he signed a max deal.