At what point does another player step it up?

[gsuteke]

Bibby is hot/cold

Horford is limited

Smoove isn't a post-player

Marvin is Houdini

Marvin didn't take a shot in the 1st Quarter per the Hawks post-game telecast. He didn't take a single shot.

Contrary to what many HS members think I believe it is Marvin who has the most talent on the offensive end of the players I've mentioned.

But 1 shot in the 1st Quarter?

Does Marvin have the balls?

[mrhonline]

It's frustrating to me because he's clearly the second-best scorer on the team.

But he doesn't look for his shot, nor does anyone else on the team look for him. There are hardly any plays ran for him, and he's constantly being waved to the other side of the court by Bibby and JJ. (And sometimes Smith, which cracks me up).

I don't understand what the Hawks are doing with Marvin...

Edited January 14, 2009 by mrhonline

[tonegully]

I BLAME THE COACH!!!

If Woody thinks Marvin has talent, make him show his talent. Draw some simple plays for Marvin and call it often. But i mean it might be against Hawk rules to shoot without letting Bibby and Joe get their first 5 threes off first.

I think Marvin needs encouragement from JJ, Bibby, and Woody to shoot the ball. But dont wait until JJ and Bibby do their little dribbling and pick roll iso crap then throw the ball to Marvin with 4seconds on the shot clock and ask for him to create.

[gsuteke]

I BLAME THE COACH!!!

If Woody thinks Marvin has talent, make him show his talent. Draw some simple plays for Marvin and call it often. But i mean it might be against Hawk rules to shoot without letting Bibby and Joe get their first 5 threes off first.

I think Marvin needs encouragement from JJ, Bibby, and Woody to shoot the ball. But dont wait until JJ and Bibby do their little dribbling and pick roll iso crap then throw the ball to Marvin with 4seconds on the shot clock and ask for him to create.

I agree with you but I'd like to add one caveat.

I think Woody needs an Offensive Coordinator. Even Mike Mularkey could realize that half-court offense needs some tweaking.

[Popeye]

For this to happen we need to change the offensive system or get a new coach. Joe has the ball on every damn possession even though he doesn't have to. Joe needs to play off people sometimes since he is a great spot up shooter. Joe dribbles the ball way too much which leads into turnovers, desperations shots and loosing his legs for the rest of the game which results into playing poor defense.

[tonegully]

For this to happen we need to change the offensive system or get a new coach. Joe has the ball on every damn possession even though he doesn't have to. Joe needs to play off people sometimes since he is a great spot up shooter. Joe dribbles the ball way too much which leads into turnovers, desperations shots and loosing his legs for the rest of the game which results into playing poor defense.

I agree. JJ can shoot. He needs to get some old Reggie Miller tapes. Let bibby and Law do the ball handling and you run around and get open. Its hard to get a good look at the goal when you bring the ball up court and you know the double is comming.

Set screens for JJ, instead of iso Joe. Get open looks.

[mrhonline]

I should add to my remarks that Marvin will never be "The Man" on a team. He's simply not that good.

He definitely has the potential to be a solid #3 and maybe even a #2. Currently, he alternates between the 4th and 5th option on the Hawks, and that's just stupid.

[tonegully]

I think Marvin can be a great number 2 guy.

Marvins problem is that he played his one year of college ball for a real coach, a real team, with a real system. UNC has some of the best basketball ever. No ball hogs, hell they barely have a 20pt scorer. They share the ball and pass the ball. I think Marvin needs to break out of that mental system to succeed in the NBA.

The Hawks are not built like that. Marvin is not used to shooting the ball that much.

Its like when i play pick up games. I like to see who is hot on the team. I dont like shooting the ball first and then adjust my game from there.

[gsuteke]

I think Marvin can be a great number 2 guy.

Marvins problem is that he played his one year of college ball for a real coach, a real team, with a real system. UNC has some of the best basketball ever. No ball hogs, hell they barely have a 20pt scorer. They share the ball and pass the ball. I think Marvin needs to break out of that mental system to succeed in the NBA.

The Hawks are not built like that. Marvin is not used to shooting the ball that much.

Its like when i play pick up games. I like to see who is hot on the team. I dont like shooting the ball first and then adjust my game from there.

I have a hard time arguing with that.

What I will say though if Marvin is a man and more importantly a leader amongst men he can and will step up and get the job done.

Edited January 14, 2009 by gsuteke

[bronnt]

Josh Smith was a huge detriment to the team during the first quarter. I was so happy to see him benched. He was taking out of control shots, wasn't going after rebounds, and wasn't doing very much on defense.

Marvin Williams didn't realize it was his time until the third quarter. His third quarter performance was one of the best single quarters the Hawks have seen this season. Then he was completely absent during the fourth quarter.

On nights when Joe and Bibby are not shooting well, this team is not set up to win. Our fourth quarter offense was run entirely to create sets for those guys, despite the fact that the guys who had it going on offense were Marvin, Flip, and Zaza. Bibby and JJ combined for 13 shot attempts in the fourth quarter. Marvin did miss those two free throws in the fourth, but we really did need him to do something.

Instead we got JJ trying to win the game by himself on a night when he scored 11 points on TWENTY-ONE shot attempts. Josh Smith jacking up 20 footers (or charging). Zaza's only shot attempt in the fourth quarter came off of an offensive rebound (not his own miss, before you say anything). He made the basket. Sure, he fouled out, but that was with less than 2 minutes left.

I hate myself for lobbying for more shots for Flip, but yes, he needed the ball in his hands more during the fourth quarter. And Acie Law was pretty effective-he needed to see the floor, but he'll never, never see the floor during the fourth quarter of a close game as long as Woodson is in charge.

[tonegully]

BLAME WOODY!!!!

[AtLaS]

It's frustrating to me because he's clearly the second-best scorer on the team.

Clearly the 2nd best scorer?

Tell me, what does he do well other than shoot and draw bailout fouls?

He can't handle, and he can't drive or finish inside at ALL. That doesn't exactly scream "Give Marvin more shots" to me.

He's a good set shot shooter, that's it.

[DrReality]

I thought Morris played a decent game. Showed he can play some defense . . . . but then no one can defend Shaq when he's on. I think he deserves 12 minutes a night.

[macdaddy]

I agree. I have been one of Marvin's biggest critics but now I believe he can be a force. He has the tools to be a scorer starting with being able to shoot. But he is also a load and could have a Paul Pierce like game (without the whining) if he was given the chance AND took control.

If your superstar shoots 5-20 that's ok. If you have two guys doing it that's a problem. I've been bashing Woody all week but he coached a decent game other than the lack of offensive scheme. Don't know why Flip wasn't in more in the 4th since he was making good decisions and Acie should've played more in the second half. The second unit got us back in the game.

[Packfill]

I should add to my remarks that Marvin will never be "The Man" on a team. He's simply not that good.

He definitely has the potential to be a solid #3 and maybe even a #2. Currently, he alternates between the 4th and 5th option on the Hawks, and that's just stupid.

Rashard Lewis 2.0. It will be interesting to see what type of money Marvin is offered in the off-season.

[mrhonline]

Rashard Lewis 2.0. It will be interesting to see what type of money Marvin is offered in the off-season.

That's a good comparison actually. With Rashard being the better shooter, and Marvin the better defender.

[Packfill]

That's a good comparison actually. With Rashard being the better shooter, and Marvin the better defender.

That is the comparison everyone has been making since he was drafted.

[tonegully]

Clearly the 2nd best scorer?

Tell me, what does he do well other than shoot and draw bailout fouls?

He can't handle, and he can't drive or finish inside at ALL. That doesn't exactly scream "Give Marvin more shots" to me.

He's a good set shot shooter, that's it.

Shoot and draw bailout fouls?? At least he does attack the paint. No one else does.

He cant drive?? you cant be serious, he attacks the basket more than anyone else on the team. Who here finishes inside on our team. Not JJ, not Smoove, and certainly not Bibby.

Marvin has the second best range behind JJ. Marvin can hit the 3, he hits the boards, he plays above average man on man defense, and most of all he plays smart basketball.

Yeah Marvin needs the ball more. Someone has to take the load off of JJ and help our star out.

[Dsinner]

Marvin has the second best range behind JJ.

Umm, Bibby?

[tonegully]

You go with Bibby, Ill go with Marvin.