Anybody see Chris Paul's stat line?

[Plainview1981]

33 pts 11 asts 10 rebs 7 stls

12/24 fgs, 9/12 fts 2 TO's, 1 PF

Marvin had 11 points and 6 rebounds on 4-9 shooting. What a bust. Such a high draft pick and such small contributions.

[BeeSwatter]

33 pts 11 asts 10 rebs 7 stls

12/24 fgs, 9/12 fts 2 TO's, 1 PF

Marvin had 11 points and 6 rebounds on 4-9 shooting. What a bust. Such a high draft pick and such small contributions.

:beathorse:

Doesn't this ever get old?

[thefloydian]

ahahahaha

[capstone21]

33 pts 11 asts 10 rebs 7 stls

12/24 fgs, 9/12 fts 2 TO's, 1 PF

Marvin had 11 points and 6 rebounds on 4-9 shooting. What a bust. Such a high draft pick and such small contributions.

WHAT??? Paul is better then Marvin? I had no idea. :ohmy:

[crimedog]

Wait, was Marv drafted before Chris Paul?

Someone should get on the phone with ESPN to make sure they mention this development in all Hawks-related articles.

THIS CANNOT GO UNNOTICED!!!

[Plainview1981]

:beathorse:

Doesn't this ever get old?

We still hear about Sam Bowie over MJ years later. Obviously Paul is not MJ, but this shouldn't die anytime soon. It should be brought up to Hawks ownership and management for the rest of their careers. It will be a big thing that prevents the Hawks from doing anything of note anytime soon.

Instead of a HOF PG the team is stuck with an average starter at best. And that's all Marvin is.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[tonegully]

We still hear about Sam Bowie over MJ years later. Obviously Paul is not MJ, but this shouldn't die anytime soon. It should be brought up to Hawks ownership and management for the rest of their careers. It will be a big thing that prevents the Hawks from doing anything of note anytime soon.

Instead of a HOF PG the team is stuck with an average starter at best. And that's all Marvin is.

So blame BK for taking Marvin then. Dont blame Marvin.

That great stat line and their record is barely better than ours.

[Diesel]

So blame BK for taking Marvin then. Dont blame Marvin.

That great stat line and their record is barely better than ours.

That's BS Tony... Remember Hakeem also went ahead of Jordan. However, never have you heard anything negative said about picking Hakeem ahead of Jordan... The reason being is because Hakeem held up his pick and validated his GM choosing him. Bowie didn't (even if it were due to injury)... SO you saying blame the GM... is BS.. Blame the player who is not living up to his pick. Isn't one of the main excuses people give for us picking Marvin is that everybody believed that he was worth the #2 pick? Well, if that's the case, then that means that the onus falls on Marvin to prove his worth. This was not some GM who was just thinking out the box... YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

[Plainview1981]

So blame BK for taking Marvin then. Dont blame Marvin.

That great stat line and their record is barely better than ours.

It wouldn't be as bad if Marvin was atleast an all star player. There is just such a gigantic difference in terms of talent between the two.

[BeeSwatter]

Nobody is disputing the greatness of Chris Paul, but how many threads have been made on it since that draft? How many more that say the same thing must be started? Oh I get it. Hawks won their last game and you didn't have anything to whine about.

[DrReality]

He plays with as much confidence, especially a pg, as anyone in the game today. Very impressive.

[capstone21]

We still hear about Sam Bowie over MJ years later. Obviously Paul is not MJ, but this shouldn't die anytime soon. It should be brought up to Hawks ownership and management for the rest of their careers. It will be a big thing that prevents the Hawks from doing anything of note anytime soon.

Instead of a HOF PG the team is stuck with an average starter at best. And that's all Marvin is.

You don't hear about Darko going ahead of Melo, Wade and Bosh anymore. Let it go. Its old and boring now. Yes everyone knows we should have taken Paul or Deron. We didn't. There is no point to this.

[AHF]

You don't hear about Darko going ahead of Melo, Wade and Bosh anymore. Let it go. Its old and boring now. Yes everyone knows we should have taken Paul or Deron. We didn't. There is no point to this.

Agreed.

I also agree with the notion of blaming the GM, not the player (unless the player is not trying, is undermining the team by smoking crack or something, etc.). If Marvin was the 30th best player in the draft, his job is to go to workouts, do his best, and get drafted as high as possible. Knight's job was to go to everyone's work outs, figure out who was best, and draft the best available player at #2. Knight botched it on this one - badly. Marvin didn't do anything wrong with the draft process. People shouldn't kill Bargnani for not being as good as Roy; tthey shouldn't kill Chris Wilcox for not being as good as Amare Stoudamire; etc. The job of those players is simply to do their best. The job of getting the guy who will be the best belongs to the GM.

[Diesel]

Agreed.

I also agree with the notion of blaming the GM, not the player (unless the player is not trying, is undermining the team by smoking crack or something, etc.). If Marvin was the 30th best player in the draft, his job is to go to workouts, do his best, and get drafted as high as possible. Knight's job was to go to everyone's work outs, figure out who was best, and draft the best available player at #2. Knight botched it on this one - badly. Marvin didn't do anything wrong with the draft process. People shouldn't kill Bargnani for not being as good as Roy; tthey shouldn't kill Chris Wilcox for not being as good as Amare Stoudamire; etc. The job of those players is simply to do their best. The job of getting the guy who will be the best belongs to the GM.

In your world, the player is never wrong. The player is never too lazy or too BB IQ Challenged. Let's just blame it on the GM... I mean, he was the fool that thought that the player was a superstar.. (and so did a lot of people).. I think there's enough blame to reach even the player... Hewas picked high so he has a responsibility to bust *ss to get to where he wants to go. Do you really think Marvin is doing everything he can to live up to his pick? I don't. Is that BK's fault too?

[mattlanta]

33 pts 11 asts 10 rebs 7 stls

12/24 fgs, 9/12 fts 2 TO's, 1 PF

Marvin had 11 points and 6 rebounds on 4-9 shooting. What a bust. Such a high draft pick and such small contributions.

You seriously disappoint me for even bringing this up.

[Packfill]

You seriously disappoint me for even bringing this up.

To be honest, that was a huge blunder by BK so it is hard to move past. Paul is one of the 5-7 best players in the league and the chance to get one of those types of talents is so rare.

[crimedog]

Do you really think Marvin is doing everything he can to live up to his pick? I don't. Is that BK's fault too?

Is it BK's fault that you don't think Marvin is "living up to his pick"? I don't even know what that means.

For one, I think Marv is doing everything he can but he's just not naturally fluid or skilled enough to be much more than he is now. He stays out of trouble, tries hard, seems to be visually as intense about winning as anyone on our team outside of Smith who is a little bit to expressive.

On the other hand, if he's not, why isn't he? Why do GMs look into every facet of a player's backgrounds? Interview them on their ambitions? To find out whether or not they are going to do everything they can to be a winner.

[tonegully]

That's BS Tony... Remember Hakeem also went ahead of Jordan. However, never have you heard anything negative said about picking Hakeem ahead of Jordan... The reason being is because Hakeem held up his pick and validated his GM choosing him. Bowie didn't (even if it were due to injury)... SO you saying blame the GM... is BS.. Blame the player who is not living up to his pick. Isn't one of the main excuses people give for us picking Marvin is that everybody believed that he was worth the #2 pick? Well, if that's the case, then that means that the onus falls on Marvin to prove his worth. This was not some GM who was just thinking out the box... YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

No, that's not BS. It was BK's job to scout and fill our needs. He failed us on that. So stop blaming Marvin for being a number 2 pick. Blame the GM. I mean its as simple as that.

If my son was in college and an average freshman on a great team and a NBA GM said they wanted to make my son a lottery pick over players that are way better than he is. Im not going to say.."No GM he is not a lottery pick."

Imma say "pick my son" then tell him to go out and play as hard as possible. Its not Marvin's job to go and play like a number 2. Its his job to go and play hard and give us 110 percent.

Blame BK for selecting Marvin and not CP3.

[AHF]

In your world, the player is never wrong. The player is never too lazy or too BB IQ Challenged. Let's just blame it on the GM... I mean, he was the fool that thought that the player was a superstar.. (and so did a lot of people).. I think there's enough blame to reach even the player... Hewas picked high so he has a responsibility to bust *ss to get to where he wants to go. Do you really think Marvin is doing everything he can to live up to his pick? I don't. Is that BK's fault too?

Many players are too lazy and deserve blame. Many stubbornly persist in doing stupid things that deserve blame. I have no problem saying those players are wrong and deserve blame.

What I don't think is intelligent is blaming Ben Wallace for not being as good as Tim Duncan if some GM is stupid enough to pass on Duncan and take Wallace. No matter what Wallace does or how hard he works, he can never justify that pick because he just doesn't have the talent that Duncan does.

What I blame on Marvin is that he has not been aggressive enough and still is too raw in a number of areas, particularly one-on-one play. In the past I have blamed him for not developing his 3pt range as well, although he has taken a big step in that this year. To the extent Marvin isn't busting his rear to improve, he deserves blame for that. However, it is not fair to say that he deserves blame if he isn't as good as Chris Paul because I don't think he can ever be that good even if he develops the work ethic of John Stockton. Marvin can't control whether he is as good as Paul so no one should blame him for not being as good. If you want to argue what is in Marvin's control and what he is not meeting, that is a totally separate topic from Paul unless you really think Marvin would be better than Paul or roughly equal to Paul if he only did whatever you think he needs to do.

Give the player blame for what is in his control. The only thing in the player's control is maximizing his potential, displaying a team-first attitude, staying out of trouble, etc.

Give the GM blame for what is in his control. Comparing players against one another is in the realm of the GM, not the player.

Assume Shelden Williams has busted his *** every day and has maximized his talent in the NBA. Should Shelden Williams be blamed for not being as good as Brandon Roy? Of course not. The GM deserves that blame, not Shelden. If however, Shelden has been lazy and repeatedly done stupid things then he deserves blame for that. Look at what is in his control.

[Diesel]

No, that's not BS. It was BK's job to scout and fill our needs. He failed us on that. So stop blaming Marvin for being a number 2 pick. Blame the GM. I mean its as simple as that.

If my son was in college and an average freshman on a great team and a NBA GM said they wanted to make my son a lottery pick over players that are way better than he is. Im not going to say.."No GM he is not a lottery pick."

Imma say "pick my son" then tell him to go out and play as hard as possible. Its not Marvin's job to go and play like a number 2. Its his job to go and play hard and give us 110 percent.

Blame BK for selecting Marvin and not CP3.

Do you really think Marvin is giving 110 percent though?

Some like to say that Marvin "improves every year"... a quick look shows that it's a slight improvement and they want to give him credit for not getting worse. But aside from that.. the things that he hasn't improved sticks out... Namely:

He's not improved his aggressiveness.

Do you realize how many people have taken the blame and the punishment for Marv's non aggressiveness?

First it was Antoine Walker. Taken too many shots.

Then it was Al Harrington. Playing too many minutes that can be given to Marvin.

Then it was Childress. Playing so much that it's not allowing Marvin to develop confidence.

Now, it's Joe and Bibby and Smoove.. not passing the ball.

Then it's the offensive scheme... not enough plays drawn up for Marvin...

ANd let's not forget... Woody... not a good enough coach to reach Marvin.

Sorry but blaming everybody for Marvin is not cutting it.

At some point Marvin has to get his knee out of his *ss and do something for himself. He has to be aggressive. He has to be what we drafted him to be.... IF you say Oh well, we picked him and we have to live with what he gives us.. I say Fooey. Trade his butt if he can't be what we need.