EXTEND WOODSON NOW

[macdaddy]

Almost everyone is in agreement that Woody has some not-so-small weaknesses. I think we all (especially me) have to agree at this point that after 4 years of losing an extraordinary amount of games to fire Woody now (with 30 wins) would just make our franchise look even more clueless.

[Admin]

For the record, I don't think Dolfan is a blind Woodson homer, because he does admit his faults and admits there are lots of better coaches in the NBA.

I just don't understand how he can look at the flaws and not realize that this team isn't playing to it's potential.

I'm never a blind anything/anyone homer. Right or wrong I always form my own opinion. For the record though I don't believe there are LOTS of better coaches in the NBA.

1. I believe there are a select number who are unquestionably better and they are all employed. Unless by some miracle of miracles we aren't getting Phil, Jerry, or Pop to quit their current gigs and come coach the Hawks.

2. I believe there is a large group who are equal to Woody, some of them are employed and some of them aren't. Some of them MAY be better than Woody in some areas but none are without their flaws. Avery Johnson is the main one championed around here and for all of his positive attributes he is known to have alienated his players. Is that what we want around here?

3. I believe there is a VERY large group who are inferior to Woody and most of them are unemployed or at the very least not employed as an NBA head coach any longer.

I do realize that the team isn't playing to it's full potential, but I also realize that RIGHT NOW there isn't any scenario in which Woody is fired that gets us to play to our full potential THIS SEASON. Woody is absolutely OUR BEST option for THIS SEASON.

[crimedog]

I may be damning with faint praise here. I don't think Woodson is a standout motivator either. I just think that a lot of coaches would have totally lost the team after what the organization has been through under his time as coach. The fact that he hasn't totally lost them is one of the big positives of his coaching time in Atlanta for me. That doesn't mean I think Woodson has been a standout at pushing the right buttons.

Well we might be getting into specifics, but I'm more concerned with whether he has the ability to push the right buttons now than whether he can keep a developing team from forcing him out.

This team has changed since Woody took over. We have, more or less, a set nucleus. We have enough talent and ability to beat teams without really busting it. Now we need peices to push us to the next level - a backup big man with rebounding and shotblocking would be a peice, as would a coach that knew how to convey that going into the half up by 30 against a bad team gives you as much, if not more, ability to rest your legs than coasting without the potential for an upset loss.

[Admin]

I agree. I also think that its part of coaching to convince your guys that you are better off putting guys away early.

Agreed, I'm not sure why our players don't seem to believe it.

They shouldn't need the scoreboard as motivation. These aren't lazy guys either, they aren't guys who are just in it for the paycheck. Its mystifying why it happens and at some point you have to wonder whether you can place blame on the one guy who'se job description actually includes motivating.

I don't know where Woody ranks among the list of NBA head coaches as far as being a motivator goes. My guess is that he's somewhere in the middle. What I also don't know is what type of motivation we get from our assistant coaches compared to other assistant coaches around the league and the same goes for our players. We know that Bibby keeps things light and playful in the locker room. We know that Horford gets hyped up and he and Zaza are probably the best at getting an emotional reaction from other players on the team and Josh Smith is probably the most emotional player of them all. What I am fairly confident that we don't have is a player among our starters who gets the other players up for the game. We don't have a KG. We don't have a Shaq. We don't have a Kobe, or a DWade, etc, etc. What we do have is a group of mostly even tempered guys who appear unable to get properly motivated for a game and ready to come out and assert their will on the opponents from the opening tip. Maybe the answer is replacing Woody. Maybe it's trying to bring in a veteran who can be a true leader on the court and can get the team to play from the opening tip. I'm just not sure and I don't think any of us can honestly answer this because none of us are in the locker room with the team.

ADDENDUM: When I referred to you as "one of the most positive contributors" I didn't mean you were always positive, but that your contributions to the board were positive, as in added to it.

Ahh, I get what you're saying now and thank you, that is how I feel as well.

[Admin]

Well we might be getting into specifics, but I'm more concerned with whether he has the ability to push the right buttons now than whether he can keep a developing team from forcing him out.

This team has changed since Woody took over. We have, more or less, a set nucleus. We have enough talent and ability to beat teams without really busting it. Now we need peices to push us to the next level - a backup big man with rebounding and shotblocking would be a peice, as would a coach that knew how to convey that going into the half up by 30 against a bad team gives you as much, if not more, ability to rest your legs than coasting without the potential for an upset loss.

Agreed, and it might be time to look for that coach in the offseason. IMO we've made our bed for this season by keeping Woody and he deserves to finish out this season. In the offseason we should look at what's available and evaluate those coaches and compare them to Woody. If a better option is available* and interested then let's make the swap.

*Disclaimer - available as in wants to coach the Hawks and the ownership is willing to pay him what it takes.

[Admin]

You make it seem like it's easy to "put a team away early".

It's rare that a team can impose that kind of will on another team. The requirement is that the other team quits and you play nonstop. Even the best of teams have let other teams back in it.

I think that right now, our team is at a good point. A point where they are confident enough to hold a lead. For a young team, that's pretty good.

If you base our ability to put a team away early on the fact that we've been able to come back from big deficits on a large number of occasions then it's a somewhat safe assumption to believe that we could put them away early if we were to play up to our ability from the opening tip.

I've been very impressed with 2 things this year.

1. Our ability to win at home. This is truly remarkable for a team as young as we are to be such a dominant team at home. I honestly believe that there isn't a team in the league we couldn't beat in our building.

2. Our ability to maintain a lead in the 4th quarter. Considering how many games we gave away in the 2nd half and specifically the 4th quarter last year this has been a monumental improvement.

[Traceman]

Almost everyone is in agreement that Woody has some not-so-small weaknesses. I think we all (especially me) have to agree at this point that after 4 years of losing an extraordinary amount of games to fire Woody now (with 30 wins) would just make our franchise look even more clueless.

Well said. We have the most wins the franchise has had before the All Star break since the '96-'97 season despite a couple of key starters missing double digit games. After so many consecutive losing seasons, getting rid of Woody now would make the franchise look pretty stupid.

Woody is by no means perfect but he has done a good job overall this year. Period. I don't agree with a lot of the things that he does but the bottom line for whether or not he is being successful as a coach THIS year can be measured in wins and losses.

This season was never about developing our young talent as his previous seasons were. This season is about winning NOW and he is doing that at a rate that exceeds what most of us here on the board expected. When you consider the ownership mess, the change in GM and the loss of a key player in Chillz, Woody has done a VERY good job under the circumstances. I'm sure I will b*tch at him at times when he does something I disagree with but I think he is doing a good job and I'm glad we brought him back.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Traceman

[HawkItus]

Dolf is just offering a Ying to the hate squad's Yang. He was presenting how utterly ridiculous it looks to have 5 post saying kill Woody after a 2 point loss in January as it for an extend Woody post after one blowout win following a blowout loss. Anybody who can't get that is remedial.

[crimedog]

Dolf is just offering a Ying to the hate squad's Yang. He was presenting how utterly ridiculous it looks to have 5 post saying kill Woody after a 2 point loss in January as it for an extend Woody post after one blowout win following a blowout loss. Anybody who can't get that is remedial.

... and the fact of the matter is, the team is going to have to fall below .500 before Sund needs to start considering a coaching change - which is the right move in my opinion.

There are definitely replacements out there, but hiring them mid-season and hoping they can implement a new offense in a weekend is rash.

[HawkItus]

... and the fact of the matter is, the team is going to have to fall below .500 before Sund needs to start considering a coaching change - which is the right move in my opinion.

There are definitely replacements out there, but hiring them mid-season and hoping they can implement a new offense in a weekend is rash.

exactly and if you listen to Sund, he clearly states his goals for this season are:

1)a winning record(so far so good)

2)another tirp to the playoffs(so far so good)

I think this team and Woody's future barring those two goals will be primarily affected by what we do in the playoffs. If we have homecourt and lose or get swept I think Woody will be ousted. If we go to the second round he is has some job safety.