Talent vs. Opportunity vs. Situation

[Wurider05]

This is kind of related to another thread but I had a question. We all see how Devin Harris is tearing it up in New Jersey while he didn't exactly tear it up in Dallas and how Conley is starting to get more minutes he is producing that leads me to the point of are players being fairly evaluated when there are so many things that factor into the equation as to how good a player is. For instance how do we know that Marvin and Smoove couldn't score 25 ppg a game if JJ and Bibby weren't here or we had another coach. Now look at Acie Law's situation up until recently he wasn't getting any minutes to improve but we expect him to produce like Stuckey in Detroit even though Stuckey starts and controls the ball and will look for his own shot. We brought Marvin, Smoove, Chillz, Horf here with no intentions of either being the "man" so it isn't fair to compare Smoove or Marvin to D. Granger because he was brought in to (and eventually became) be the man and to take a majority of the shots. To me the best comparisons of players would be Deron Williams and Chris Paul both are pg's and both were brought in to lead and be the man on their teams. There situations are nearly identical but you rarely hear them compared we continue to get (although dying down now) Marvin vs Paul. People forget that Deron Williams was drafted after Marvin. Seeing how things have played out here I am starting to see way BK wanted to can Woody. Woody is not putting out players in a consistent environment to be successful. Our guys for the most part are playing the role that they were given to play and that is 3, 4, 5 options on a team. I had to catch myself when I was wondering why isn't Marvin or Smoove putting up 20ppg by now but then I considered that we got Bibby and he is a shoot first pg so the trickle down effect would be stagnant ppg for everyone. I mean Horf is averaging nearly the samething that he did last year we having Bibby taking more shots and Smoove and Marvin have become better rebounders. Look at Diaw, George Mason, Stephen Jackson, Jason Terry etc players who got better when they got into better situations. I mean this also applies to players like Rondo who are in great situations but think that they are better than they really are. I think that Andrew Bynum will eventually end up in that category as well.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Wurider05

[jerrywest]

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Diesel]

Have to disagree a bit Wurider...

You said:

We brought Marvin, Smoove, Chillz, Horf here with no intentions of either being the "man" so it isn't fair to compare Smoove or Marvin to D. Granger because he was brought in to (and eventually became) be the man and to take a majority of the shots.

Two problems...

1st Granger was not brought into Indy to be "the man". He was 17th pick overall. Moreover, they picked him when they had Artest, Jasckson, & Oneal. There was no way on earth that they picked him to be the man.

Danny Granger knows he'll need to work hard to earn playing time for the Indiana Pacers next season.

The former New Mexico standout was the 17th pick in the NBA draft, but he plays forward, a spot manned by two of the league's best players, Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest. Minutes could be hard to find.

"It's a challenge that I will accept," Granger said after his selection Tuesday. "Every one of us (who are drafted), except for maybe the top three are going to have somebody in front of them. I've just got to go in there and compete for playing time."

Secondly,

We picked Marvin at #2 overall. Highest pick in the History of this franchise. We had 5 SFs on the roster at the time and no PGs. How can you say we didn't pick him to be "the man"???

[Duff_Man]

This is why I hold off judgement on Acie Law. Woody messes with the kids' head so much that it is damn near impossible for him to get any better or play at a consistent level. Acie gets minutes one game, then none the next. Without a defined role on the team, what would you expect from him?

[Diesel]

This is why I hold off judgement on Acie Law. Woody messes with the kids' head so much that it is damn near impossible for him to get any better or play at a consistent level. Acie gets minutes one game, then none the next. Without a defined role on the team, what would you expect from him?

I agree here. Woody is no goody for Acie.

Seriously though, I would love to see how Acie responds under more structured offensive gameplanning.

[Wurider05]

Have to disagree a bit Wurider...

You said:

Two problems...

1st Granger was not brought into Indy to be "the man". He was 17th pick overall. Moreover, they picked him when they had Artest, Jasckson, & Oneal. There was no way on earth that they picked him to be the man.

I thought about that after I finished typing it but still that situation isn't the same. None of our drafted players were ever given the green light because Woody doesn't trust young players or is he the great teacher people claim him to be. He only likes vets regardless of their faults. That is his comfort zone.

Secondly,

We picked Marvin at #2 overall. Highest pick in the History of this franchise. We had 5 SFs on the roster at the time and no PGs. How can you say we didn't pick him to be "the man"???

[Wurider05]

Have to disagree a bit Wurider...

You said:

Two problems...

1st Granger was not brought into Indy to be "the man". He was 17th pick overall. Moreover, they picked him when they had Artest, Jasckson, & Oneal. There was no way on earth that they picked him to be the man.

I thought about that after I finished typing it but still that situation isn't the same. None of our drafted players were ever given the green light because Woody doesn't trust young players or is he the great teacher people claim him to be. He only likes vets regardless of their faults. That is his comfort zone.

Secondly,

We picked Marvin at #2 overall. Highest pick in the History of this franchise. We had 5 SFs on the roster at the time and no PGs. How can you say we didn't pick him to be "the man"???

I stated that he eventually became the man. But I was mistaken to say that he was drafted to be the man. He was given the opportunity and trust of his coach.