The Miami trade and the 4th seed

[frosgrim]

So, is anyone else underwhelmed by the O'Neil trade to Miami?

Them getting Amare would have concerned me a great deal, but to me this seems like a lateral move at best.

The Hawks, actually match up better vs. the Heat now than they did prior to the trade. Marion at least could come over and play PF, and step out and hit 3s.

What I am getting at is that prior to the trade the Heat were looking like a real threat to the 4th seed. Now, I don't see them as nearly the threat they were. O'Neil is too fragile to be a big contribute down the stretch and the loss of Marion will really hurt them as teams can now completely focus on Wade.

[Wurider05]

So, is anyone else underwhelmed by the O'Neil trade to Miami?

Them getting Amare would have concerned me a great deal, but to me this seems like a lateral move at best.

The Hawks, actually match up better vs. the Heat now than they did prior to the trade. Marion at least could come over and play PF, and step out and hit 3s.

What I am getting at is that prior to the trade the Heat were looking like a real threat to the 4th seed. Now, I don't see them as nearly the threat they were. O'Neil is too fragile to be a big contribute down the stretch and the loss of Marion will really hurt them as teams can now completely focus on Wade.

They traded for severely damage goods and Beasely has been a bust so far. They damn sure better not catch us. I doubt O'neil or Wade stay healthy and even if they did I think that we can still beat them.

[crimedog]

They traded for severely damage goods and Beasely has been a bust so far. They damn sure better not catch us. I doubt O'neil or Wade stay healthy and even if they did I think that we can still beat them.

Beasley this season has been as good as Durant was last season, he just isn't on a team where his coach lets him do play like a jackass.

[TruJerz]

So, is anyone else underwhelmed by the O'Neil trade to Miami?

Them getting Amare would have concerned me a great deal, but to me this seems like a lateral move at best.

The Hawks, actually match up better vs. the Heat now than they did prior to the trade. Marion at least could come over and play PF, and step out and hit 3s.

What I am getting at is that prior to the trade the Heat were looking like a real threat to the 4th seed. Now, I don't see them as nearly the threat they were. O'Neil is too fragile to be a big contribute down the stretch and the loss of Marion will really hurt them as teams can now completely focus on Wade.

I think Heat are a much better team than they were with Marion now. JO isnt what he used 2 be but when you look at what they have now, JO is much better than Anthony and Magloire. And adding Moon to the team makes it even better..he's a poor man's Marion. Heat are a more complete team. Banks wasnt doing much for the Heat.

IF JO can stay healthy, i dont see why this Heat team can catch us. But we have alot to do with it because if we win games, we can keep our 4th spot regardless

[HawksBalla]

I think Miami is better as well. Beasley can take Marion's minutes instead of coming off the bench. O'neal will have height advantages over every one of our players, I dont see how that is a good thing. Plus it gives them a shot-blocker, which matches us well against our weak post-up game.

[cam1218]

I'm on the fence with this trade. The Raptors were a playoff team last year and most thought that adding O'Neal would put them up there as one of the teams to beat in the East. Well, here we are now and we saw what O'Neal did for that team. I'm not putting the blame on him, but it's not like he did much to help up there. Like O'Neal, Marion has been out a good bit this year too so it really just seems like a lateral move for me.

[crimedog]

The way I see it (and I could be totally wrong), is that the Miami brass decided that they didn't want Boozer even if they could have him this offseason. Maybe they didn't want to deal with his nonsense, maybe they don't think he and Beas would mesh well, whatever. They also knew that they weren't a real threat to the crown this season and really, they were only a marginal threat for HC in the first round. For that reason, they figured that they had very little to lose in trading for a guy who may fit the team better and whose contract expires before 2010 when Miami is going to be one of the few teams that actually have a good shot at being able to lure another star.

So does it for sure make them better? No. Its not like the Gasol trade or the KG trade. It does though, give them a chance to be better because Moon and JO are probably a more talented combo than Marion and Joel Anthony. If he gets injured, what the hell, they weren't gonna win it all anyway, at least this way they make season tickets holders think their doing something and get a first out of it.

[TruJerz]

The way I see it (and I could be totally wrong), is that the Miami brass decided that they didn't want Boozer even if they could have him this offseason. Maybe they didn't want to deal with his nonsense, maybe they don't think he and Beas would mesh well, whatever. They also knew that they weren't a real threat to the crown this season and really, they were only a marginal threat for HC in the first round. For that reason, they figured that they had very little to lose in trading for a guy who may fit the team better and whose contract expires before 2010 when Miami is going to be one of the few teams that actually have a good shot at being able to lure another star.

So does it for sure make them better? No. Its not like the Gasol trade or the KG trade. It does though, give them a chance to be better because Moon and JO are probably a more talented combo than Marion and Joel Anthony. If he gets injured, what the hell, they weren't gonna win it all anyway, at least this way they make season tickets holders think their doing something and get a first out of it.

yea I agree. Im stunned that Raptors would include Moon in this trade..makes it that much worst. Miami is loaded and I think they can give ANYONE problems in the east. Marion was injured a lot this season so its not like they dont know how to win games without him. good trade by Pat Riley

[capstone21]

yea I agree. Im stunned that Raptors would include Moon in this trade..makes it that much worst. Miami is loaded and I think they can give ANYONE problems in the east. Marion was injured a lot this season so its not like they dont know how to win games without him. good trade by Pat Riley

O'Neal is a shell of his former self.

[frosgrim]

I think Miami is better as well. Beasley can take Marion's minutes instead of coming off the bench.

The problem is the Beasley was the starter early in the season and was sent to the bench to get his game in order. It remains to be seen if is ready to play 30+ minutes night in and out.

O'Neil hasn't really done anything the past few years, what is going to change now that he's in Miami?

Crimebog's notion that this was a what the heck trade is probably the best explanation that I have seen.

[DrReality]

I think it would have to be a perfect storm for them to catch us. Don't see it happeningt.

[Admin]

Beasley this season has been as good as Durant was last season, he just isn't on a team where his coach lets him do play like a jackass.

Agreed! I think that if JO can get and stay healthy (highly doubtful) that Beasley could move to the 3 with his range and really open things up for the Heat.

[AHF]

For this trade to work out for the Heat will come down much more to what JO brings on the defensive side of the floor than what he brings on offense. He can make an impact for them rebounding and blocking shots. I don't think he is at all efficient as a scorer for an interior player but he certainly has enough talent to keep people honest there. His health is the single biggest factor. It will be interesting. I am sure glad we didn't trade for him, though!

[exodus]

For this trade to work out for the Heat will come down much more to what JO brings on the defensive side of the floor than what he brings on offense. He can make an impact for them rebounding and blocking shots. I don't think he is at all efficient as a scorer for an interior player but he certainly has enough talent to keep people honest there. His health is the single biggest factor. It will be interesting. I am sure glad we didn't trade for him, though!

JO is so washed up i don't think even Diesel wanted him any more.

[Buzzard]

JO is so washed up i don't think even Diesel wanted him any more.

I agree Ex. If, if, if JO could stay healthy they are a better interior team; but without Marion they are also losing a solid perimeter presence.

I think what this really does is move Philly and Detroit up to our biggest threats for the 4th seed and just keeps Miami competitive enough to make the playoffs.

[Packfill]

They traded for severely damage goods and Beasely has been a bust so far. They damn sure better not catch us. I doubt O'neil or Wade stay healthy and even if they did I think that we can still beat them.

Beasley hasn't been a world beater but to call him a "bust" seems pretty far from the truth. The fact is he is a teenager contributing on a winning team.

Heck, if Beasley is a bust what exactly was Marvin (also a #2 pick with one year of college experience)?

[crimedog]

Beasley hasn't been a world beater but to call him a "bust" seems pretty far from the truth. The fact is he is a teenager contributing on a winning team.

Heck, if Beasley is a bust what exactly was Marvin (also a #2 pick with one year of college experience)?

I still think Durant is the best comparison. Last season Durant went 20.3-4.5 in 35 minutes and his defense didn't improve at all over the course of the season because his coach didn't care about winning so he never pulled the kid for being an awful defender.

This season Beas is going 13.3-5.3 in 24 minutes while shooting a better % and playing better D because he knows his coach will give him the hook without a second's hesitation if he doesn't play up to snuff.

Compare their per36 numbers and Beas is scoring slightly lower than KD did but at a higher % and rebounding more. He also doesn't have the ball in his hands whenever he wants, which means he doesn't have as much an opportunity to be a facilitator or get to the line.

Not saying Beasley will be a better player than Durant, just that if you call Beasley a bust you are looking at NOTHING other than per game numbers which are probably the most deceptive stats to consider for a rookie.

[Diesel]

I think Miami is better as well. Beasley can take Marion's minutes instead of coming off the bench. O'neal will have height advantages over every one of our players, I dont see how that is a good thing. Plus it gives them a shot-blocker, which matches us well against our weak post-up game.

I don't know. I think that they are better than they were, but against a team like us... not really. I mean... Marion added very little. He was on the decline. But JO will help that frontcourt a lot. Still, our guys are not scared of JO. We love playing JO and punking JO. JO is a big but he has the heart of a skinny Sf against physical play. We have guys who play physically. I am more afraid of Haslem and I am happy to know that if JO is on the team he will take minutes from Haslem. This heat team is doing an about face when it comes to physicallity. They have gotten rid of their physicalness and that's a plus for us. Still, I would hate to see them in the first round because they still have Wade. Yet, I would rather see them than to see Philly.

[BusBoyIsBack]

I still think Durant is the best comparison. Last season Durant went 20.3-4.5 in 35 minutes and his defense didn't improve at all over the course of the season because his coach didn't care about winning so he never pulled the kid for being an awful defender.

This season Beas is going 13.3-5.3 in 24 minutes while shooting a better % and playing better D because he knows his coach will give him the hook without a second's hesitation if he doesn't play up to snuff.

Compare their per36 numbers and Beas is scoring slightly lower than KD did but at a higher % and rebounding more. He also doesn't have the ball in his hands whenever he wants, which means he doesn't have as much an opportunity to be a facilitator or get to the line.

Not saying Beasley will be a better player than Durant, just that if you call Beasley a bust you are looking at NOTHING other than per game numbers which are probably the most deceptive stats to consider for a rookie.

Well said. Beasley is 5th in PPG among rookies iand he does it with decisively fewer minutes per game than any other rookie who's not only in the top 10.

Beasley doesn't have close to the green light to shoot that Durant had his first year in the league. Heck he may never have it being on the same team as DWade. But I absolutely expect Beasley to develop into a solid 18-20 PPG/8-10 RPG guy in this league as early as next season.

He just needs the minutes to do so.

Edited February 17, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack