Analysis: Difference between Bryant, Johnson a mental task

[Frenzy]

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Analysis: Difference between Bryant, Johnson a mental task

By Dave McMenamin, NBA.com

Posted Feb 18 2009 7:17AM

LOS ANGELES -- You know the old phrase used to describe a girl, "she's good from afar, but far from good"? Twist it around and it applied to the shooting guard matchup at Staples Center on Tuesday, with the Lakers earning a 96-83 victory. The games of the Lakers' Kobe Bryant and the Hawks' Joe Johnson look the same from afar, but are far from the same.

Their bodies just beg for the comparison.

Kobe checks in at 6-foot-6 and 205 pounds. But for the bulk of his career, he was playing at 220. Joe has an inch and 30 pounds on Bryant, but he came into the league at 225.

They both have a versatile offensive game that's built on the ability to score in a multitude of ways -- from deep, off the dribble, catch-and-shoot -- while possessing the court sense and passing ability to get others involved.

Entering Tuesday's game, Bryant was averaging 27.7 points on 47.5 percent from the field, 35.0 percent from 3-point range and 86.9 from the line. Johnson was averaging 21.6 points on 43.3, 34.4 and 80.5 percent, respectively.

Break down Bryant's points and you'll find that 14.6 percent of them come on 3-pointers, 27.5 in the paint, 22.5 on free throws and the other 35.4 percent from midrange.

Johnson's breakdown is 27.3 percent on treys, 26.7 in the paint, 16.9 on freebies and 29.1 percent from midrange.

They score in a similar fashion.

"I've always been a big Joe Johnson fan," Bryant said after the game in which the two beat each other up for three quarters -- Bryant going 4-for-12 for a season-low 10 points and Johnson missing 11 of 17 shots to end up with 14 -- before neither played a minute in the fourth with the Lakers up by 25. "I felt like it was a big mistake for Phoenix to let him go when they did because I felt like you had another player who could create opportunities for others."

"He's extremely versatile," Bryant said. "Go left. Go right. Shoot it. He's a very good player."

It's a mutual admiration society between the two. "I still like to watch him as a player, I'm still a fan," Johnson said. "It's a little different when you're in the NBA playing against him, but most definitely, I watch him and try to take little things that he used to do and try to put it into my game."

The whiteboard in the Hawks' visiting locker room before the game read: "Run Kobe off the three ... Make him hit 2's ... Nothing in the paint." That would be a pretty good plan for Joe, too, according to Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw, who is responsible for scouting the Hawks.

With one exception:

"I just think Kobe is head and shoulders above everybody in terms of his tenacity and will to compete, that killer attitude and instinct that he has," Shaw said.

Everything that seemed so similar before starts to bear no resemblance. Bryant's success starts in his head and the body follows. Johnson is still the other way around.

Maurice Evans, Bryant's former backcourt mate in L.A. and Johnson's current backup in Atlanta, agrees. "I think you see a little bit of the mental edge [with Bryant] as far as the confidence level, as far as winning championships and having a greater level of success," Evans said. "When [the Hawks] played Boston last year and they went to Game 7, Kobe's been in situations where he's actually won that game and had that type of success. Once Joe gets that under his belt, I think he can start playing on that level."

It's that mental edge that made their USA Basketball experiences so different.

Before Bryant came to the Redeem Team's rescue, averaging 15 points in the Olympics and scoring a clutch four-point play to help seal the gold medal game in Beijing, Team USA had Johnson playing the two. He averaged just 7.3 points on the team that took home bronze at the 2006 World Championship of Basketball.

It's that supreme confidence by Bryant that made their All-Star weekends so opposite.

Johnson and Bryant were both selected to play in Phoenix, but Bryant scored 27 points en route to being named co-MVP while Johnson was the only player in the game to go scoreless.

But neither Bryant nor Johnson were the show on Tuesday.

Pau Gasol had the third triple-double of his career, finishing with an effortless 12 points, 13 rebounds and 10 assists. New additions Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown suited up for the first time. After Jordan Farmar turned the ball over late in the fourth, Brown chased down Mario West and made an incredible block where he elevated so high he could have rejected the ball with his armpit, according to Bryant. The play was so awe inspiring that the Staples Center video board operators showed it on replay over and over, even though the block didn't technically count because Brown was whistled for a foul.

Lamar Odom won a bet with Bryant that he would snag 20 rebounds after just missing the mark the last three games. Odom finished with 15 points and 20 boards. He also said that by winning the bet, Bryant owes him.

"But what he owes me comes in June," Odom said.

"Kobe did his damage," Atlanta coach Mike Woodson said, not even knowing about the incentive Bryant put out there to make Odom a game-changer on the glass.

"I challenge guys, I just want to get the best out of them really," Bryant said. Even when he scored a season low, he had a hand in his teammate corralling a season high.

Johnson's teammate Josh Smith, playing Odom's same position, finished the game with zero boards. You think Johnson challenged Smith to do that?

It doesn't take a genius to see why Bryant thrives

[NineOhTheRino]

wow! is it kick-Joe day around here? Great find!

Edited February 18, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[HawkItus]

Wow, great article. I couldn't agree more.

[TheTrueSiete]

The biggest difference between Kobe and JJ is Kobe has a coach with a "proven offensive scheme"... That's the bottom line...

7

[AtLaS]

This guy is correct. Kobe will absolutely berate his teammates if they're playing like crap or not hustling. Kobe never loses confidence and his game definitely starts mentally and his body follows. Joe is the opposite.

This is one of the most well drawn out articles in a while. Surprising coming from a national writer.

However, even if JJ had a similar personality to Kobe I don't see him being as good, as this writer somewhat suggests. As skilled as JJ is, he isn't on Kobe's level nor does he have the athletic ability. But the leadership, confidence, and charisma go a LONG way and is honestly probably the biggest difference between the two.

[JoshB9]

Kobe is on a different level mentally as the article said. He is also a better basketball player. That's no knock on Joe, but the gap between a very good player like Joe and a great player like Kobe is massive.

[Traceman]

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Analysis: Difference between Bryant, Johnson a mental task

By Dave McMenamin, NBA.com

Posted Feb 18 2009 7:17AM

LOS ANGELES -- You know the old phrase used to describe a girl, "she's good from afar, but far from good"? Twist it around and it applied to the shooting guard matchup at Staples Center on Tuesday, with the Lakers earning a 96-83 victory. The games of the Lakers' Kobe Bryant and the Hawks' Joe Johnson look the same from afar, but are far from the same.

Their bodies just beg for the comparison.

Kobe checks in at 6-foot-6 and 205 pounds. But for the bulk of his career, he was playing at 220. Joe has an inch and 30 pounds on Bryant, but he came into the league at 225.

They both have a versatile offensive game that's built on the ability to score in a multitude of ways -- from deep, off the dribble, catch-and-shoot -- while possessing the court sense and passing ability to get others involved.

Entering Tuesday's game, Bryant was averaging 27.7 points on 47.5 percent from the field, 35.0 percent from 3-point range and 86.9 from the line. Johnson was averaging 21.6 points on 43.3, 34.4 and 80.5 percent, respectively.

Break down Bryant's points and you'll find that 14.6 percent of them come on 3-pointers, 27.5 in the paint, 22.5 on free throws and the other 35.4 percent from midrange.

Johnson's breakdown is 27.3 percent on treys, 26.7 in the paint, 16.9 on freebies and 29.1 percent from midrange.

They score in a similar fashion.

"I've always been a big Joe Johnson fan," Bryant said after the game in which the two beat each other up for three quarters -- Bryant going 4-for-12 for a season-low 10 points and Johnson missing 11 of 17 shots to end up with 14 -- before neither played a minute in the fourth with the Lakers up by 25. "I felt like it was a big mistake for Phoenix to let him go when they did because I felt like you had another player who could create opportunities for others."

"He's extremely versatile," Bryant said. "Go left. Go right. Shoot it. He's a very good player."

It's a mutual admiration society between the two. "I still like to watch him as a player, I'm still a fan," Johnson said. "It's a little different when you're in the NBA playing against him, but most definitely, I watch him and try to take little things that he used to do and try to put it into my game."

The whiteboard in the Hawks' visiting locker room before the game read: "Run Kobe off the three ... Make him hit 2's ... Nothing in the paint." That would be a pretty good plan for Joe, too, according to Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw, who is responsible for scouting the Hawks.

With one exception:

"I just think Kobe is head and shoulders above everybody in terms of his tenacity and will to compete, that killer attitude and instinct that he has," Shaw said.

Everything that seemed so similar before starts to bear no resemblance. Bryant's success starts in his head and the body follows. Johnson is still the other way around.

Maurice Evans, Bryant's former backcourt mate in L.A. and Johnson's current backup in Atlanta, agrees. "I think you see a little bit of the mental edge [with Bryant] as far as the confidence level, as far as winning championships and having a greater level of success," Evans said. "When [the Hawks] played Boston last year and they went to Game 7, Kobe's been in situations where he's actually won that game and had that type of success. Once Joe gets that under his belt, I think he can start playing on that level."

It's that mental edge that made their USA Basketball experiences so different.

Before Bryant came to the Redeem Team's rescue, averaging 15 points in the Olympics and scoring a clutch four-point play to help seal the gold medal game in Beijing, Team USA had Johnson playing the two. He averaged just 7.3 points on the team that took home bronze at the 2006 World Championship of Basketball.

It's that supreme confidence by Bryant that made their All-Star weekends so opposite.

Johnson and Bryant were both selected to play in Phoenix, but Bryant scored 27 points en route to being named co-MVP while Johnson was the only player in the game to go scoreless.

But neither Bryant nor Johnson were the show on Tuesday.

Pau Gasol had the third triple-double of his career, finishing with an effortless 12 points, 13 rebounds and 10 assists. New additions Adam Morrison and Shannon Brown suited up for the first time. After Jordan Farmar turned the ball over late in the fourth, Brown chased down Mario West and made an incredible block where he elevated so high he could have rejected the ball with his armpit, according to Bryant. The play was so awe inspiring that the Staples Center video board operators showed it on replay over and over, even though the block didn't technically count because Brown was whistled for a foul.

Lamar Odom won a bet with Bryant that he would snag 20 rebounds after just missing the mark the last three games. Odom finished with 15 points and 20 boards. He also said that by winning the bet, Bryant owes him.

"But what he owes me comes in June," Odom said.

"Kobe did his damage," Atlanta coach Mike Woodson said, not even knowing about the incentive Bryant put out there to make Odom a game-changer on the glass.

"I challenge guys, I just want to get the best out of them really," Bryant said. Even when he scored a season low, he had a hand in his teammate corralling a season high.

Johnson's teammate Josh Smith, playing Odom's same position, finished the game with zero boards. You think Johnson challenged Smith to do that?

It doesn't take a genius to see why Bryant thrives

Great article and right on point. I love JJ but the difference between him and Kobe is significant when it comes to the mental part of the game.

I also like the "bet" between Kobe and Odom. odom has always had the talent to rebound like that, he has just never played consistently aggressive enough. Maybe somebody should bet Smoove that he can't average 15 pts, 10 rebs, 5 assists and 5 blocks for the rest of the season.

[crimedog]

Whatever. Kobe is more skilled and more athletic than Joe. If Joe had the talent of Kobe, his teamates would react differently to him, unfortunately he doesn't. Lebron and Tim Duncan aren't complete DBags to their teamates most of the time, doesn't mean they aren't as intense as Kobe and it doesn't mean they aren't as good leaders... I don't think Joe has as much leadership acumen as either one of those guys, but thats not the point.

As far as the "bet" that Kobe used to motivate Odom into performing, it doesn't take a rocet scientist to realize that Odom has been rebound over twice as much since Bynum went out (and scoring almost twice as much). If Kobe's leadership ability can coax it out of him now, why was he playing like a little girl literally until the game after Bynum went down?

Look, there are a lot of guys I'd like Joe to be like. There are qualities that Kobe has that I wish Joe had. Kobe is also a class A jackass who has done just as much to break down certain teamates as he has to pump them up. I don't think Joe can really use the Kobe Bryant leadership techniqe of constantly insulting players, lobbying for them to be traded, and acting like an arrogant jackass because Joe isn't good enough for that to have the same sort of effect as it does with Kobe.

[AtLaS]

Kobe is also a class A jackass who has done just as much to break down certain teamates as he has to pump them up. I don't think Joe can really use the Kobe Bryant leadership techniqe of constantly insulting players, lobbying for them to be traded, and acting like an arrogant jackass because Joe isn't good enough for that to have the same sort of effect as it does with Kobe.

Jordan did the same thing and was applauded for it. KG is a great leader and he made Big Baby cry. Yeah they're assholes, but sometimes that's what it takes.

[crimedog]

Jordan did the same thing and was applauded for it. KG is a great leader and he made Big Baby cry. Yeah they're assholes, but sometimes that's what it takes.

No doubt, but it sure as hell isn't the only way to be a leader. Like I said, Tim Duncan is always thought of as one of the best leaders in the game. He doesn't do that. Roy, James, Hakeem, nope.

Larry Bird and Magic would definitely get in a guy's face, but they were also known as supportive teamates.

... and like I said. Being a d*ck can be a leadership style if you are consistent enough to pull it off. Joe isn't.

[AHF]

Jordan did the same thing and was applauded for it. KG is a great leader and he made Big Baby cry. Yeah they're assholes, but sometimes that's what it takes.

I don't know that Jordan was same as Kobe. I put him more in the KG area. Very intense; unwilling to accept less than what he feels is appropriate; etc. I don't recall him making power plays like Kobe did with Shaq or trying to get HoGrant traded ala Bynum, etc. (I recognize both of those are not perfectly analogies because Jordan was the #1 guy, didn't have the same teammates, etc. but I don't see anything comparable to those types of moves).

Edited February 18, 2009 by AHF

[exodus]

Kobe has way more talent than JJ first of all. And secondly it is funny to see someone arguing about Kobe's mental game considering he has been seen as bascially a prima donna his whole career.

I remember reading that Kobe was so reclusive that Fisher didn't believe that Kobe actually appeared in person for public funtion. He had to "see the tape" to believe it.

This is the guy who was always seen as being way too selfish and taking his teamates out of the game. This is also the guy who ran Shaq out of town and threw him under the bus with the cops.Did anyone read Phil's book about Kobe's antics during that time? When the team chartered a plane to take him back and forth to the Denver courthouse Kobe complained that it wasn't big enough.

[Traceman]

Whatever. Kobe is more skilled and more athletic than Joe. If Joe had the talent of Kobe, his teamates would react differently to him, unfortunately he doesn't. Lebron and Tim Duncan aren't complete DBags to their teamates most of the time, doesn't mean they aren't as intense as Kobe and it doesn't mean they aren't as good leaders... I don't think Joe has as much leadership acumen as either one of those guys, but thats not the point.

As far as the "bet" that Kobe used to motivate Odom into performing, it doesn't take a rocet scientist to realize that Odom has been rebound over twice as much since Bynum went out (and scoring almost twice as much). If Kobe's leadership ability can coax it out of him now, why was he playing like a little girl literally until the game after Bynum went down?

Look, there are a lot of guys I'd like Joe to be like. There are qualities that Kobe has that I wish Joe had. Kobe is also a class A jackass who has done just as much to break down certain teamates as he has to pump them up. I don't think Joe can really use the Kobe Bryant leadership techniqe of constantly insulting players, lobbying for them to be traded, and acting like an arrogant jackass because Joe isn't good enough for that to have the same sort of effect as it does with Kobe.

I didn't see the "bet" as leadership from Kobe per se but I think the bet certainly motivated Odom to go out and get 20 boards. That's all I'm saying with Smoove.

Somebody needs to give Smoove some kind of incentive or challenge to do things that he is capable of doing on a consnstent basis. Odom has been capapble of rebounding like this for a LONG time but he has never put forth this kind of effort consistently.

[crimedog]

I didn't see the "bet" as leadership from Kobe per se but I think the bet certainly motivated Odom to go out and get 20 boards. That's all I'm saying with Smoove.

Somebody needs to give Smoove some kind of incentive or challenge to do things that he is capable of doing on a consnstent basis. Odom has been capapble of rebounding like this for a LONG time but he has never put forth this kind of effort consistently.

Has NOTHING to do with Kobe and EVERYTHING to do with being a starter and having a more defined role than "come in and do what we ask of you."

If Kobe had this kind of influence, he should have done it earlier in the year when Odom was playing poorly. Its not a coincidence that Odom started having monster rebounding games immediately after Bynum went out.

[benhillboy]

I never, ever, ever, never, ever want to see Joe Johnson's name in the same sentence with Bean's after this one, me being a Bean worshipper, and at the same time head of the "Joe Johnson is a 6'7, 240 lb Softie Who Can't Dunk" Fan Club.

Also, Kobe cannot take responsibility for Odom, who is the poster child for the player who gushes versatility, yet does nothing well on a consistent basis. One of the main reasons the Lakers are where they are is because Phil had the presence of mind to take pressure off of Odom by decreasing his minutes, responsibility, stock, etc. Phil basically cut dead weight, because you don't need to be the best skilled player to play alongside Kobe. Ariza has shown your main attributes should be aggression and toughness, something that Pau is starting to grasp. About a month ago, Lamar Odom was one of the seven top players in the league as far as +- numbers on the season. Can someone check on the present status? If he still is among the league leaders, the Lakers have the most knowledgable, shrewd coaching staff by far and it would frankly be an embarrassment to fail to win it all. Seeing him atop that category made me skeptical about the basic laws of mathematics that have been constant since the beginning of time. Lamar is a hinderance to winning, and there are no numbers you can skew to convince me otherwise. That coaching staff is simply made up of geniuses.

Isn't it scary? It is clear that Phil is getting considerably better at his job.

Edited February 19, 2009 by benhillboy

[Frenzy]

JJ can dunk,he's just had some injuries.I think he's afraid to go above the rim honestly

Edited February 19, 2009 by falconfrenzy

[benhillboy]

JJ can dunk,he's just had some injuries.I think he's afraid to go above the rim honestly

I am 100% positive he is terrified of attacking the rim, not to mention that he has probably the worst jumping ability of any guy in the league at comparable size. Is that a guy you want eating up 70 million of your payroll?

[Traceman]

Has NOTHING to do with Kobe and EVERYTHING to do with being a starter and having a more defined role than "come in and do what we ask of you."

If Kobe had this kind of influence, he should have done it earlier in the year when Odom was playing poorly. Its not a coincidence that Odom started having monster rebounding games immediately after Bynum went out.

Odom has been a starter for his entirer CAREER and he has had a defined role on every team he has ever played for. The problem is that he has consistently fell shy of expectations in EVERY role that he has been placed in. His talent has always been evident but he has never produced consistently at the level that his talents says he should produce.

Honestly, I don't expect his latest level of production ot continue at this astonishing rate (for him) even if he is in a contract season. He's never done it for long so I just don't see him turning on the switch and keeping it on.

Again, I am not saying that Kobe is respsonsible for Odom's play of late (it is my understanding that the bet was for only one game), I'm just saying that the bet apparently motivated Odom to go out and get 20 boards against the Hawks and that maybe someone betting Smoove that he couldn't average 15/10/5/5 wouldn't be a bad idea.

[capstone21]

This guy is correct. Kobe will absolutely berate his teammates if they're playing like crap or not hustling. Kobe never loses confidence and his game definitely starts mentally and his body follows. Joe is the opposite.

This is one of the most well drawn out articles in a while. Surprising coming from a national writer.

However, even if JJ had a similar personality to Kobe I don't see him being as good, as this writer somewhat suggests. As skilled as JJ is, he isn't on Kobe's level nor does he have the athletic ability. But the leadership, confidence, and charisma go a LONG way and is honestly probably the biggest difference between the two.

I would not say that is the only difference. Kobe is consistent in his dominant. He scares every team out there. He is on another level then Joe. One that he, Wade, Lebron and couple other guys sit at. Joe can play at his level but just not every night.

As for leadership...it is night and day. I wish Joe had more of Kobe's personality when it comes to this. However, I think Joe is a shy guy and never really wants the mantle of team leader. He needs to grab with both hands and make the team follow his lead.

[Johnnybravo4]

I always thought a better comparison to Joe was Ray Allen and not Kobe.