In retrospect

[Wurider05]

I was just thinking that a Bibby for iverson trade would have made us better. I am not sure that the numbers add up but I think that Iverson would have helped us alot more because he can get to the basket pretty much at will. I think that he actually has better point guard skills than Bibby. just a random thought!!!

[Peoriabird]

I was just thinking that a Bibby for iverson trade would have made us better. I am not sure that the numbers add up but I think that Iverson would have helped us alot more because he can get to the basket pretty much at will. I think that he actually has better point guard skills than Bibby. just a random thought!!!

He did wonders for the Pistons team!

[tonegully]

lol@Peoriabird

[capstone21]

I was just thinking that a Bibby for iverson trade would have made us better. I am not sure that the numbers add up but I think that Iverson would have helped us alot more because he can get to the basket pretty much at will. I think that he actually has better point guard skills than Bibby. just a random thought!!!

He is a chemistry killer. Also he is not a better pg then Bibby. There is a reason why every team he goes starts him off as a pg but is forced to shift him to sg.

[GameTime]

He did wonders for the Pistons team!

Curry/ Pistons offensive scheme has him on a leash. Woody will pretty much let him do whatever he want because he is a vet (Flip anyone?).

[Wurider05]

Curry/ Pistons offensive scheme has him on a leash. Woody will pretty much let him do whatever he want because he is a vet (Flip anyone?).

That is the point I wanted to make. Iverson has heart that is something all of our starters except Horf seems to be lacking. We have no established offense.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Wurider05

[Traceman]

That is the point I wanted to make. Iverson has heart that is something all of our starters except Horf seems to be lacking. We have no established offense.

So what if he has heart? You think Rip Hamilton, Sheed, Prince and McDyess lack heart? With all that "heart" and our so-called lack of heart, we still are 2-0 against DET this year. Iverson does NOT make his teammates better. When he leaves, the team he joins gets worse and the team he left gets better. He plays hard but it doesn't translate into wins for his team and it hasn't since Larry Brown coached him.

[HawkItus]

So what if he has heart? You think Rip Hamilton, Sheed, Prince and McDyess lack heart? With all that "heart" and our so-called lack of heart, we still are 2-0 against DET this year. Iverson does NOT make his teammates better. When he leaves, the team he joins gets worse and the team he left gets better. He plays hard but it doesn't translate into wins for his team and it hasn't since Larry Brown coached him.

You can't say Philly got better. You just can't.

[AHF]

You can't say Philly got better. You just can't.

Philly 2006-07 with Allen Iverson - 5 wins, 10 losses. 33% winning percentage.

Philly 2006-07 without Allen Iverson - 30-37. 45% winning percentage

Denver 2006-07 14-9 without Allen Iverson - 61% winning percentage

Denver 2006-07 31-28 with Allen Iverson - 53% winning percentage

You can.

[HawkItus]

http://www.nba.com/sixers/history/year_by_year_2000.html

No. You can't. I clearly said Philly. But, even with Denver, let's look at a full season before we start the definitive statements. Your argument is tepidly inconclusive at best.

[AHF]

What do the prior team records of the Sixers have to do with whether the 2006-07 Sixers improved themselves by trading AI for Andre Miller?

The Sixers were going in the toilet with Iverson in 2006-07. The team was getting worse as the year went along and it became clear that the team would be better without him.

Allen Iverson's Sixers were worse than the Sixers without Allen Iverson.

Allen Iverson's Nuggets were worse than the Nuggets without Allen Iverson.

It is the same pattern with Denver and Detroit this year.

Iverson was past his prime by the time the Sixers chose to get rid of him based on how much he could elevate a team's record anymore, IMO. This is why I opposed trades for him when he was on the block. I am happy we got Bibby for a song instead of unloading assets for Iverson.

Iverson's problem is that he hogs the ball (look at his usage rates) and does not shoot it efficiently (look at his true shooting percentages). I wouldn't trade Bibby straight up for Iverson this year.

Edited February 23, 2009 by AHF

[HawkItus]

What do the prior team records of the Sixers have to do with whether the 2006-07 Sixers improved themselves by trading AI for Andre Miller?

The Sixers were going in the toilet with Iverson in 2006-07. The team was getting worse as the year went along and it became clear that the team would be better without him.

Allen Iverson's Sixers were worse than the Sixers without Allen Iverson.

Allen Iverson's Nuggets were worse than the Nuggets without Allen Iverson.

It is the same pattern with Denver and Detroit this year.

Iverson was past his prime by the time the Sixers chose to get rid of him based on how much he could elevate a team's record anymore, IMO. This is why I opposed trades for him when he was on the block. I am happy we got Bibby for a song instead of unloading assets for Iverson.

Iverson's problem is that he hogs the ball (look at his usage rates) and does not shoot it efficiently (look at his true shooting percentages). I wouldn't trade Bibby straight up for Iverson this year.

What you forget is the 76er's are notoriously slow starters. Check their record for the first 20 games since AI's departure. See a trend? Who knows how they would have finished had they kept AI.

[Traceman]

What you forget is the 76er's are notoriously slow starters. Check their record for the first 20 games since AI's departure. See a trend? Who knows how they would have finished had they kept AI.

Come on man! Philly was CLEARLY better on both ends IMMEDIATELY after AI left. AI's style of play takes very good players and relegates them to being watchers. Even proven, veteran players like Hamilton, Prince and Sheed fall into the trap. When he was younger, he was so good that he COULD carry teams at times. He is still a good player but his days of carrying teams are over.

Ask DET's players if they would rather have Chauncey back. DEN is FAR better with Chauncey than they were with AI. DEN got DESTROYED in the playoffs because AI is such a ballhog on offense and such a liability on defense. When he was younger, he was so skilled that

[EazyRoc]

What do the prior team records of the Sixers have to do with whether the 2006-07 Sixers improved themselves by trading AI for Andre Miller?

The Sixers were going in the toilet with Iverson in 2006-07. The team was getting worse as the year went along and it became clear that the team would be better without him.

Allen Iverson's Sixers were worse than the Sixers without Allen Iverson.

Allen Iverson's Nuggets were worse than the Nuggets without Allen Iverson.

It is the same pattern with Denver and Detroit this year.

Iverson was past his prime by the time the Sixers chose to get rid of him based on how much he could elevate a team's record anymore, IMO. This is why I opposed trades for him when he was on the block. I am happy we got Bibby for a song instead of unloading assets for Iverson.

Iverson's problem is that he hogs the ball (look at his usage rates) and does not shoot it efficiently (look at his true shooting percentages). I wouldn't trade Bibby straight up for Iverson this year.

Iverson could actually play the SG position (in a sense) and still defend PGs. The way I understand it is, Joe is the "point" so to speak, and Bibby plays off the ball. At least, by design, that's how I always thought our offense works. He's also quick enough to defend Devin Harris, TJ Ford, and other lightning quick guards. I would trade Bibby for Iverson straight up, but I don't think it'd make our team a whole lot better. Maybe I'm biased, due to the fact that AI was my favorite player back when he used to carry the sixers on his back. He's good, and to say he makes teams better when he leaves them, and makes them worse when he joins them simply can't be proven. With all that said, AI really could be a chemistry killer (only those who've played with him know the truth) and in that case I don't want him.

Edited February 23, 2009 by EazyRoc

[AHF]

Come on man! Philly was CLEARLY better on both ends IMMEDIATELY after AI left. AI's style of play takes very good players and relegates them to being watchers. Even proven, veteran players like Hamilton, Prince and Sheed fall into the trap. When he was younger, he was so good that he COULD carry teams at times. He is still a good player but his days of carrying teams are over.

Ask DET's players if they would rather have Chauncey back. DEN is FAR better with Chauncey than they were with AI. DEN got DESTROYED in the playoffs because AI is such a ballhog on offense and such a liability on defense. When he was younger, he was so skilled that [it didn't matter so much.]

This is my view of AI. He hogs the ball so much that it stifles his teammates and prevents offensive flow. He is a liability on defense as a SG.

He is like a significantly better version of Stephon Marbury.

[BusBoyIsBack]

How the hell would Iverson make us better than Bibby would?

Iverson is a ball stopper, he can't shoot 3s like Bibby, it's just a terrible idea that makes no sense at all.

Me, Myself, and Iverson would not fit on this team.

Edited February 24, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[Peoriabird]

How the hell would Iverson make us better than Bibby would?

Iverson is a ball stopper, he can't shoot 3s like Bibby, it's just a terrible idea that makes no sense at all.

Me, Myself, and Iverson would not fit on this team.

I would rather have Ben Gordon

[Joker]

Even though I'm not big on trades like this. As for the 2009 FA's, I would sign A.I. for the Hawks before Bibby. Why would I sign a player who hasn't help to playoff teams before hand. Simple. A.I. was on the wrong type of teams, the Nuggets are ran by Melo. He needs to play with a distributing PG like Andre Miller or Billups. As for Billups he was the leader and when the rest of the Pistons looked for leadership they looked for Billups. They also have a system in place that doesn't not favor A.I. In fact if Bibby played there, it would be much worst. I feel for A.I. but needs to realized that their are certain systems he fits. He can't be in a system that needs a distributing PG or a system that is a fast break system. He is a half court guard who would do well when he's not the true PG on offense like Bibby. He would also be really good in Portland.

Edited February 25, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[Traceman]

Even though I'm not big on trades like this. As for the 2009 FA's, I would sign A.I. for the Hawks before Bibby. Why would I sign a player who hasn't help to playoff teams before hand. Simple. A.I. was on the wrong type of teams, the Nuggets are ran by Melo. He needs to play with a distributing PG like Andre Miller or Billups. As for Billups he was the leader and when the rest of the Pistons looked for leadership they looked for Billups. They also have a system in place that doesn't not favor A.I. In fact if Bibby played there, it would be much worst. I feel for A.I. but needs to realized that their are certain systems he fits. He can't be in a system that needs a distributing PG or a system that is a fast break system. He is a half court guard who would do well when he's not the true PG on offense like Bibby. He would also be really good in Portland.

AI with a PG who distributes? AI has the ball ALL THE TIME. When would the PG ever get to distribute anything? AI has proven to be at his best when surrounded by role players (Mutombo, Ratliff, Snow, George Lynch, Ty Hill, Matt Geiger, Matt Harpring, Aaron McKie) who can grab rebounds, throw him the ball, make open shots and make up for his shortcomings on defense.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Traceman

[AHF]

AI with a PG who distributes? AI has the ball ALL THE TIME. When would the PG ever get to distribute anything? AI has proven to be at his best when surrounded by role players (Mutombo, Ratliff, Snow, George Lynch, Ty Hill, Matt Geiger, Matt Harpring, Aaron McKie) who can grab rebounds, throw him the ball, make open shots and make up for his shortcomings on defense.

I don't think he said AI needs to be a with a PG who can distribute. I think he was saying Melo needs to be with a PG who can distribute.