The dynamic of Marvin not playing.

[mrhonline]

Does this thread mean that Diesel is willing to concede that letting Childress go was a good thing?

[Chris18]

Does this thread mean that Diesel is willing to concede that letting Childress go was a good thing?

Don't count on it.

[RedDawg#8]

Like some have already pointed out, i think that the difference is that when one of the the starting 5 is out, it forces woody to use our bench more. Whenever Solo and Acie get playing time, they bring needed dimensions to the game, particularly hustle and more commitment to defense.

Did anyone besides me notice how when Acie was in the game, he ALWAYS fought through the screen to stayed manned up on CP3, whereas when bibby/flip/joe were gaurding him, they did the same switch routine which ended in mismatches. fortunately tonite the mismatches did not hurt us much, except for when bibby was on rasual butler early in the game.

I dont know if it was by design but Acie really gaurded CP3 well and I loved that he never gave up on getting back in front of him man to man

[Diesel]

I appreciate all the attempts to change the subject. Especially those that did not attempt to address the subject at all but would rather say... "this is dumb"... You guys who do that bring so much light to this board... :sad:

Anyway.

our previous 4 wins without Marvin:

given in( pt, rebs, assist, FG, Time)

Orlando:

Mo = 8, 8, 1 (3-11) 41:55

Zaza = 8, 8, 1 (4-7) 11:32

Joe = 25, 7, 4 (11-20)

Team = 5 3pters.

Houston

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-2) 22:44

Zaza = 10, 4, 1 (4-4) 17:29

JJ = 14, 4, 14 (7-16)

Team = 4 3pters.

Toronto

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-6) 32:16

Zaza = 0, 1, 0 (0-2) 10:32

JJ = 28, 4, 5 (10-21)

Team = 7 3pters.

Chicago

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-4)

Zaza = 18, 4, 1 (6-11)* * = Horf DNP

JJ = 16, 5, 8 (5-18)

Team - 9 3pters

Here's the particulars...

1. Mo Evans don't seem to have done anything worth jumper over so I don't think he's part of the dynamic.
   
2. Our team average for 3 pters per game is 7.3 so there's only 1 game here that is over that so it's not that we raise our three point shooting any. In fact, 4 and 5 three pointers per game is laughable.
   
3. Joe's apg were elevated above his average in 2 of the 4 previous games.
   
4. Our team apg = 20.5. During these 4 games, our assists = 17, 27, 21, 21 respectively. I would say only slightly elevated. However, that does suggest that with Marvin out, our offensive continuity does not miss a beat. In fact, it gets better.
   
5. Zaza's game improves, but only by so much.
   
6. Looking to the stats, it's not the reserves that step up, it's usually Smoove or Bibby that steps up in the absence of Marvin. IN fact, Smoove doesn't have a bad game when Marvin is out.
   

Smoove against the Bulls = 17, 14, 3

Smoove against Toronto = 22, 14, 3

Smoove against Houston = 29, 2, 1

Smoove against Orlando = 17, 10, 1

Smoove against New Orleans = 13, 13, 3

Smoove's average = 15, 7, 2

Bottom line... as Smoove goes, so goes the Hawks.

[Atlantaholic]

5 games is not even close to being a decent sample size for anything, so I don't really understand what the point of this thread is.

[Peoriabird]

5 games is not even close to being a decent sample size for anything, so I don't really understand what the point of this thread is.

To me his point is crystal clear every time he makes a post for the last 4 years! And so is his agenda! :beathorse:

[NineOhTheRino]

you know this is kind of funny coming from the creator of Positivity Day.

[exodus]

Orlando:

Mo = 8, 8, 1 (3-11) 41:55

Zaza = 8, 8, 1 (4-7) 11:32

Joe = 25, 7, 4 (11-20)

Team = 5 3pters

The Hawks won 5 straight when Marvin came back after that game.

Houston

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-2) 22:44

Zaza = 10, 4, 1 (4-4) 17:29

JJ = 14, 4, 14 (7-16)

Houston was missing Artest, McGrady and Battier.

Toronto

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-6) 32:16

Zaza = 0, 1, 0 (0-2) 10:32

JJ = 28, 4, 5 (10-21)

Toronto was missing Calderon and his backup. Their starting backcourt was Anthony Parker and Joey Graham.

Chicago

Mo = 2, 3, 2 (1-4)

Zaza = 18, 4, 1 (6-11)* * = Horf DNP

JJ = 16, 5, 8 (5-18)

Chicago is.... chicago.

In last nights game NO was 3-14 from 3. They are shooting 38% from 3 on the season. Somehow i doubt it was Mo's defense that caused their struggles.

[macdaddy]

You're letting the fact that Deisel posted this and it has to do with Marvin cloud that fact that his points are correct. And its more of an indictment of Woody than Marvin. The real point is not that we are better with Marvin out of the lineup but that we are better when we don't run out the same guys and same plays that we've been running for two years. Having Joe at the 3, having Acie play real minutes are probably things that NO didn't really plan on. Its hard to win the same way every night.

Of course having Joe score 30 on 50% shooting and actually playing team defense will get us a win on most nights.

[exodus]

You're letting the fact that Deisel posted this and it has to do with Marvin cloud that fact that his points are correct. And its more of an indictment of Woody than Marvin. The real point is not that we are better with Marvin out of the lineup but that we are better when we don't run out the same guys and same plays that we've been running for two years. Having Joe at the 3, having Acie play real minutes are probably things that NO didn't really plan on. Its hard to win the same way every night.

Of course having Joe score 30 on 50% shooting and actually playing team defense will get us a win on most nights.

LOL he said that the lineup of Zaza, Horford and Smith playing together is what helped the Hawks win the game. In fact those guys were only on the court together for 3 minutes.

Posey would have been guarding JJ whether JJ played the 2 or the 3. Posey was guarding JJ in the playoffs last year when he was with Boston.

Acie looked good but i doubt his 3/3 in 20 minutes overwhelmed NO.

[buckeye242424]

LOL since we are 9-1 without Marvin this year :rolleyes:

I'm too lazy to research how many of those games we played without Marvin we're at home? Could skew the results seeing that we a different team at home. Kudos to our fans the last two games. Granted vs. teams that bring star power, but Phillips is bringing the playoff atmosphere...great to see.

[Diesel]

5 games is not even close to being a decent sample size for anything, so I don't really understand what the point of this thread is.

What would you need.. 82 games?

The point is that we're looking at the same thing that Sund and Woody is looking at. IN this case, 5 games = 6.1% of the season, we're undefeated without Marvin. That's also ~14% of our wins.

Truth be told, we could be 30-0 without Marvin and for you... the sample size would still be too low.. right?

[Diesel]

LOL he said that the lineup of Zaza, Horford and Smith playing together is what helped the Hawks win the game. In fact those guys were only on the court together for 3 minutes.

Posey would have been guarding JJ whether JJ played the 2 or the 3. Posey was guarding JJ in the playoffs last year when he was with Boston.

Acie looked good but i doubt his 3/3 in 20 minutes overwhelmed NO.

Had you taken the time to read what I said, I said that the first lineup was Joe moving to the three. Then I said on the other end of that (when Joe was out of the game) was when we played Zaza, Al, and Smoove together. Sure, it's a 3 minute lineup... but my point was that we didn't lose any ground when them on the court together. Moreover, Josh and Zaza played well all night!

I love how you try to take the minor things and make them major Ex. I guess that's what you have to do when you have NO POINT.

[exodus]

Had you taken the time to read what I said, I said that the first lineup was Joe moving to the three. Then I said on the other end of that (when Joe was out of the game) was when we played Zaza, Al, and Smoove together. Sure, it's a 3 minute lineup... but my point was that we didn't lose any ground when them on the court together.

How much ground can you lose in only 3 minutes?

Actually we were well behind at that time. It happened in the first quarter. The Hawks didn't make their first half run until Paul went out in the 2nd quarter.

Again Posey would have guarded JJ no matter where he played.

Moreover, Josh and Zaza played well all night!

At the half Smith was 2-8 with 3 turnovers. He sucked offensively until late in the game.

[Peoriabird]

The real point is not that we are better with Marvin out of the lineup but that we are better when we don't run out the same guys and same plays that we've been running for two years.

Better at what?

Field goal percentage? We shot 40% from the field last night! We normally shoot 45.7%

Sharing the ball? We had only 17 assist. We normally average 20.5 per game

Protecting the ball? Josh still had his 4 turn overs and Marvin only averages 1 turn over per game. The fact that Woodson ran a lot of Iso's cuts down on turn overs and Acie Law when in games doesn't turn the ball over. Flip our other turn over machine was primarily used as a 2 guard rather than a point guard.

Defense? They scored the same number of points last night as they did the 1st time we played them with Marvin!

So tell me what were we better at last night?

[Diesel]

How much ground can you lose in only 3 minutes?

Actually we were well behind at that time. It happened in the first quarter. The Hawks didn't make their first half run until Paul went out in the 2nd quarter.

Again Posey would have guarded JJ no matter where he played.

At the half Smith was 2-8 with 3 turnovers. He sucked offensively until late in the game.

I think you need to check your game logs a bit.

We played Zaza, Smoove, and Horf again in the 3rd.

[Diesel]

Defense? They scored the same number of points last night as they did the 1st time we played them with Marvin!

I guess that means that Marvin's so called addition to our defense is nothing.

[buckeye242424]

I guess that means that Marvin's so called addition to our defense is nothing.

Losing Marvin hurts our defense. He usually draws the assignment of guarding the LeBron's, Wade's, and Kobe's when he is in the game. He is one of our better one-on-one defenders. It's hard to argue not having him hurts our defense on some level.

[exodus]

I think you need to check your game logs a bit.

We played Zaza, Smoove, and Horf again in the 3rd.

Zaza didn't come in until there was only 1:24 left in the 3rd and he came in for Smith.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290309001

[Diesel]

Zaza didn't come in until there was only 1:24 left in the 3rd and he came in for Smith.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290309001

Wait, let me go check the DVR. BRB...

BTW Ex.. can you do that?