Moderators AHF Posted March 11, 2009 Moderators Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 The Laker dumped Rad's salary this year. The Cavs talked a big game of adding a mega deal like Carter or Shaq but they never did it. In fact the Lakers have already let it be know they cannot pay Odon the $10 mill (+) ,annually, he desires at years end. There is talk that Celtics will move Ray Allen's expiring contract to get younger in the off season or before next years deadline. Marvin is a RFA. That is just how the game is played when you have the rights to match another team's offer sheet once signed. That is how Sund played the Smoove situation and it worked out in the Hawks favor. Once they become unrestricted (UFA), like Bibby will be, is when the game of waiting for the market to set the value stops. JJ will be a UFA in 2010 and I believe Horford will be a RFA in 2011. Sometimes you can't resign every body. You have to have a long term plan. Plus the biggest dynasty of the last 30 years in the NBA was notoriously cheap - the Jordan Era Chicago Bulls. Check out what they were willing to pay Scottie Pippen if you don't believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Plus the biggest dynasty of the last 30 years in the NBA was notoriously cheap - the Jordan Era Chicago Bulls. Check out what they were willing to pay Scottie Pippen if you don't believe me. Part of that was Pippen's fault. When he was drafted he was actually worried about getting cut. He demanded a long term deal which they happily gave him. Then when he showed his ability he wanted to get a new contract and they weren't exactly quick to accomodate him. When the Bulls signed Cliff Levingston they had to play hardball with him just so that they wouldn't be paying him more than Pippen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhay610 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Man, that would be great if we could bring him back in time for the Playoffs. But isn't Chillz hurt and rehabbing here in the states now? I'm not sure his Euro team would be too happy if he's playing over here when he's supposed to be healing from an injury. If we could get him back in a Hawks uniform in time for the Playoffs, the loss of Marv would sting a lot less. Heck, it would benefit the Hawks and Chillz too if he plays well during the Playoffs and we decide to trade him later. We could get a lot more for him. This is not happening. He's not under contract. Well, he is, but not for the Hawks. Zero chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 11, 2009 Moderators Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Part of that was Pippen's fault. When he was drafted he was actually worried about getting cut. He demanded a long term deal which they happily gave him. Then when he showed his ability he wanted to get a new contract and they weren't exactly quick to accomodate him. When the Bulls signed Cliff Levingston they had to play hardball with him just so that they wouldn't be paying him more than Pippen. Pippen was drafted in 1987 and was still earning less than $3M/year in 1998. His being underpaid extended beyond his initial contract. It was the same thing with Jordan. He went from earning less than $4M per year to earning $30M/year when the Bulls lost their leverage with him. In 1995-96 Jordan earned $3.85M. Pippen earned $2.93M. Patrick Ewing earned $18.7M. Kudos to the Bulls for signing Pippen to an extension after the first championship that paid him the same as BJ Armstrong and much less than Toni Kukoc but don't think for a second they weren't squeezing their stars to maximize profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Pippen was drafted in 1987 and was still earning less than $3M/year in 1998. His being underpaid extended beyond his initial contract. It was the same thing with Jordan. He went from earning less than $4M per year to earning $30M/year when the Bulls lost their leverage with him. In 1995-96 Jordan earned $3.85M. Pippen earned $2.93M. Patrick Ewing earned $18.7M. Kudos to the Bulls for signing Pippen to an extension after the first championship that paid him the same as BJ Armstrong and much less than Toni Kukoc but don't think for a second they weren't squeezing their stars to maximize profits. i don't think Kukoc was even on the team then. There is no question they were tough negotiators but the bottom line is that it is up to the player and the players agent to get the best deal they can. It is in the managements best interests to resign them as cheaply as possible. In most cases with the Bulls the management got their way. I don't see that in a negative light. Reinsdorf knew Jordan was too concerned about his image to complain about making "only" $3 million dollars so he used that to his advantage. i have known a few successful salesmen and they will take advantage of any opportunity during negotiations. Even though Krause was a bit nutty i can't fault them for driving hard bargains. It is a business after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankthetank966 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oh this doesn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 i don't think Kukoc was even on the team then. There is no question they were tough negotiators but the bottom line is that it is up to the player and the players agent to get the best deal they can. It is in the managements best interests to resign them as cheaply as possible. In most cases with the Bulls the management got their way. I don't see that in a negative light. Reinsdorf knew Jordan was too concerned about his image to complain about making "only" $3 million dollars so he used that to his advantage. i have known a few successful salesmen and they will take advantage of any opportunity during negotiations. Even though Krause was a bit nutty i can't fault them for driving hard bargains. It is a business after all. Kukoc was on the team at the time Pippen was on his post-championship extension and earning significantly more. More to the point, we are on the same page here. I was pointing out the fact that most successful team in decades tried to save $$ on contracts and it won't be a bad thing when the Hawks sign Marvin to the best deal possible this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Kukoc was on the team at the time Pippen was on his post-championship extension and earning significantly more. More to the point, we are on the same page here. I was pointing out the fact that most successful team in decades tried to save $$ on contracts and it won't be a bad thing when the Hawks sign Marvin to the best deal possible this offseason. i don't know when Pippen signed his extension but i do know that the Bulls won two titles before Kukoc got there. maybe it took more money to bring Kukoc over. I know Krause had a huge man crush on him. I agree that the Bulls penny pinching is a good thing given how many teams have been hampered by bad contracts. Given that the cap is going down and the next CBA will likely be much more restrictive i think Sund will have to play hardball to keep salaries under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted March 12, 2009 Moderators Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Agreed on Sund needing to play hardball with most of these guys (a raise is coming for Flip). Here is a 1994 article about Pippen's unhappiness: Pippen maintains that he has been slighted by the organization. He feels underappreciated and underpaid and has been jealous of the attention the Bulls have showered on Kukoc. That hit home even harder this summer when the club showered a six-year, $25-million contract on Kukoc. When the Bulls extended Pippen's contract during the team's first championship season, Owner Jerry Reinsdorf told Pippen he would never make more than Jordan. But Reinsdorf offered this as solace: Once Jordan was gone, no one would make more than Pippen. The Bulls had a structure, Reinsdorf promised, and that was to assure that the team's best player was also its highest-paid. Pippen is undoubtedly a better player than Kukoc. Yet Pippen will make $10.45 million over the next four years. That average is well below Kukoc and is equal to point guard BJ. Armstrong. The full Sporting News article, incorrectly predicting that the Bulls would trade the unhappy Pippen, is linked below: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m120...218/ai_15787374 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Agreed on Sund needing to play hardball with most of these guys (a raise is coming for Flip). Here is a 1994 article about Pippen's unhappiness: The full Sporting News article, incorrectly predicting that the Bulls would trade the unhappy Pippen, is linked below: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m120...218/ai_15787374 When the Bulls extended Pippen's contract during the team's first championship season, Owner Jerry Reinsdorf told Pippen he would never make more than Jordan. But Reinsdorf offered this as solace: Once Jordan was gone, no one would make more than Pippen. The Bulls had a structure, Reinsdorf promised, and that was to assure that the team's best player was also its highest-paid. Pippen is undoubtedly a better player than Kukoc. Yet Pippen will make $10.45 million over the next four years. That average is well below Kukoc and is equal to point guard BJ. Armstrong. LOL Reinsdorf got one over on Pippen, again, and Pippen whined, again. Kukoc didn't come over until '93 and the Bulls won their first title in '91. I guess they resigned Pippen after their first title. Bottom line is that Pippen is either a wimp in negotiations or he just doesn't understand contracts. Nobody put a gun to his head to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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