Joe & Smoove = Better without Marvin?

[exodus]

Did y'all even watch the Cleveland game? I have, and Marvin was only guarding LeBron maybe half the time at the most. He did make a few nice plays on him, but he didn't shut him down by any means.

He was guarding him almost all the time when they were both in the game. i don't know why Woody decided to switch on the last play.

Lebron only scored 15 pts when Marvin was in the game.

[buckeye242424]

The Marvin Williams hate continues...

The bottom line is JJ has been scorching the last two games. All players go through hot and cold streaks. JJ is hot now, and it's a coincidence that Marvin isn't playing, not because he's not playing. JJ is taking the same shots now as he has taken all year. They're just dropping now. Marvin has nothing to do with JJ's shot selection.

[Diesel]

I would disagree with one thing. I would say Bibby is our least important starter. Marvin's defense is solid, and he's our best one-on-one defender. Bibby is a liability on defense. We have capable back-ups in Acie and Flip that could run this team if needed. Most PG's in this league could manage the Hawks. It's not like our offense is hard to learn. Give it to Joe and get out of the way! lol

If Marvin's defense is so Special, Why are we shutting down teams without him??

Last night: Boozer, Miles, Harpring, AK-47, Korver = 25 points on 11/32 shooting = 34%.

Previously with Marvin :

Same players = 50 points on 20/40 shooting = 50%.

Where's your Marvin makes a difference?

[AtLaS]

He was guarding him almost all the time when they were both in the game. i don't know why Woody decided to switch on the last play.

Lebron only scored 15 pts when Marvin was in the game.

There were a lot of times when both were in the game and Marvin wasn't on him. And, Marvin was switched off of him on screens many times (classic Woody D).

I just watched the game for the first time yesterday, I had a friend record it because I couldn't watch it the night it came on (snowstorm). And, I remember everyone talking about the great D Marvin played on LeBron so I was especially keeping an eye on it and he honestly wasn't doing anything special on him save a few plays. Many times Marvin would be screened off of him, or just wasn't guarding him, or wasn't in the game. He DID however guard him a decent amount but the board was definitely overrating his defensive performance solely based on LeBron's numbers.

[Diesel]

If Marvin's defense is so Special, Why are we shutting down teams without him??

Last night: Boozer, Miles, Harpring, AK-47, Korver = 25 points on 11/32 shooting = 34%.

Previously with Marvin :

Same players = 50 points on 20/40 shooting = 50%.

Where's your Marvin makes a difference?

This is not a team that was down on their luck. They came in with a 12 game streak!!!!

Boozer was just coming back in the first game and barely did much to help. Boozer is back and putting up Double doubles now... However, last night, their forwards were shut down and Marvin was not on the floor.

Marvin's defense is not so special, it's just what people say because they can't find anything to justify his game.

[Diesel]

The bottom line is JJ has been scorching the last two games. All players go through hot and cold streaks. JJ is hot now, and it's a coincidence that Marvin isn't playing, not because he's not playing. JJ is taking the same shots now as he has taken all year. They're just dropping now. Marvin has nothing to do with JJ's shot selection.

It's not just JJ's offense... our defense has been great since Marvin went down. GREAT. Last night in the 4th... 87-87... We shut Utah down after that.

[buckeye242424]

If Marvin's defense is so Special, Why are we shutting down teams without him??

Last night: Boozer, Miles, Harpring, AK-47, Korver = 25 points on 11/32 shooting = 34%.

Previously with Marvin :

Same players = 50 points on 20/40 shooting = 50%.

Where's your Marvin makes a difference?

Just the fact Marvin is given the assignment to guard the better players makes it special! Do you think JJ would prefer to guard LeBron and exert the energy? My guess is no. The coach is going assign his best defender to defend the oppositions best scoring threats, if the match-up is reasonable (height, quickness, etc.) Marvin does this. It's important.

[AtLaS]

If Marvin's defense is so Special, Why are we shutting down teams without him??

Last night: Boozer, Miles, Harpring, AK-47, Korver = 25 points on 11/32 shooting = 34%.

Previously with Marvin :

Same players = 50 points on 20/40 shooting = 50%.

Where's your Marvin makes a difference?

Check out the Jazz home record versus their road record.

Check out the Hawks' road record versus our home record.

That's the difference, plus the fact that Utah was on a back to back and we weren't.

You have an agenda and nothing to back it up, and this is coming from one of the biggest Marvin criticizers on the board.

[exodus]

It's not just JJ's offense... our defense has been great since Marvin went down. GREAT. Last night in the 4th... 87-87... We shut Utah down after that.

Do you understand the relationship between defense and defensive rebounding?

if you get more defensive rebounds your defense automatically improves. Smith and Horford combined for 19 defensive rebounds last night. They average 12.

I guess in your fantasy world marvin's absense makes Smith and Horford get more rebounds.

[Diesel]

Just the fact Marvin is given the assignment to guard the better players makes it special! Do you think JJ would prefer to guard LeBron and exert the energy? My guess is no. The coach is going assign his best defender to defend the oppositions best scoring threats, if the match-up is reasonable (height, quickness, etc.) Marvin does this. It's important.

That doesn't make him a great defender. All that means is that Woody would rather Joe Not foul out trying to guard Lebron and Wade.

You know the goal is to keep your best players on the floor.

There's nothing that you can point to that says Marvin is a lock down defender. No Steals, No blocks, no players who always agonize having to meet Marvin. Marvin's name will never sniff a defensive player of the year ballot. Marvin is just a guy who will stay in front of his man and not commit a lot of fouls. That's not a great defender.

[AtLaS]

If Marvin's defense is so Special, Why are we shutting down teams without him??

Last night: Boozer, Miles, Harpring, AK-47, Korver = 25 points on 11/32 shooting = 34%.

Previously with Marvin :

Same players = 50 points on 20/40 shooting = 50%.

Where's your Marvin makes a difference?

I also find it funny you left out Milsap who is a key forward on their team. He shot 4-12 in Utah and 6-10 in Atlanta which would drastically change your numbers. Not a coincidence you left him out.

[AtLaS]

Marvin's name will never sniff a defensive player of the year ballot. Marvin is just a guy who will stay in front of his man and not commit a lot of fouls. That's not a great defender.

I'm not sure who's trying to say Marvin is a "great" defender or deserving of consideration for an all defensive team. I think you're just arguing with crickets.

[buckeye242424]

That doesn't make him a great defender. All that means is that Woody would rather Joe Not foul out trying to guard Lebron and Wade.

You know the goal is to keep your best players on the floor.

There's nothing that you can point to that says Marvin is a lock down defender. No Steals, No blocks, no players who always agonize having to meet Marvin. Marvin's name will never sniff a defensive player of the year ballot. Marvin is just a guy who will stay in front of his man and not commit a lot of fouls. That's not a great defender.

Staying in front of your man is not easy to do in the NBA. Especially staying in front of the gifted players. Stats don't measure being able to guard one-on-one. Containment is crucial in the NBA. Add to that he's 6'9 with a long reach and the ability to jump and contest shots makes him an asset on defense. I'm not buying that JJ would be given these duties if he could stay out of foul trouble. Maybe to keep him rested so he is more effective offensively because he IS our scoring option. People like LeBron, Wade, Kobe,...you can't lock them down. Impossible. But you can make them work and frustrate them, force them into contested shots.

[Peoriabird]

Just the fact Marvin is given the assignment to guard the better players makes it special! Do you think JJ would prefer to guard LeBron and exert the energy? My guess is no. The coach is going assign his best defender to defend the oppositions best scoring threats, if the match-up is reasonable (height, quickness, etc.) Marvin does this. It's important.

This is just amazing to me! Here we have Mo Evan starting who is so bad that he could be on the floor for 19 minutes last night and Hawks fans want to see more of him! Just simply amazing!

Just the fact Marvin is given the assignment to guard the better players makes it special! Do you think JJ would prefer to guard LeBron and exert the energy? My guess is no. The coach is going assign his best defender to defend the oppositions best scoring threats, if the match-up is reasonable (height, quickness, etc.) Marvin does this. It's important.

This is just amazing to me! Here we have Mo Evan starting who is so bad that he could be on the floor for 19 minutes last night and Hawks fans want to see more of him! Just simply amazing!

[Diesel]

Do you understand the relationship between defense and defensive rebounding?

if you get more defensive rebounds your defense automatically improves. Smith and Horford combined for 19 defensive rebounds last night. They average 12.

I guess in your fantasy world marvin's absense makes Smith and Horford get more rebounds.

yeah, those defensive rebounds sure did a number on Utah's forward's FG%... Hell, they almost had the same number of attempts as before.

Sorry Ex,

Your change of subject is getting tiresome..

[Diesel]

Staying in front of your man is not easy to do in the NBA. Especially staying in front of the gifted players. Stats don't measure being able to guard one-on-one. Containment is crucial in the NBA. Add to that he's 6'9 with a long reach and the ability to jump and contest shots makes him an asset on defense. I'm not buying that JJ would be given these duties if he could stay out of foul trouble. Maybe to keep him rested so he is more effective offensively because he IS our scoring option. People like LeBron, Wade, Kobe,...you can't lock them down. Impossible. But you can make them work and frustrate them, force them into contested shots.

The truth is that Kobe, Lebron, and Wade are going to always get the call. No good head coach would play his best player on them. It just doesn't make sense to play your best guy on those guys knowing that they will draw foul after foul.

Wade = 9.4 FT/Game

James = 9.3 FT/Game

Kobe = 7.2 FT/Game

Joe = 4.6 FT/Game

That's the difference. It tells us that these guys drive to the rack. You don't put your best player in their way.

[AtLaS]

yeah, those defensive rebounds sure did a number on Utah's forward's FG%... Hell, they almost had the same number of attempts as before.

Sorry Ex,

Your change of subject is getting tiresome..

Nice job not including Milsap in your forward's FG%.

[Diesel]

This is just amazing to me! Here we have Mo Evan starting who is so bad that he could be on the floor for 19 minutes last night and Hawks fans want to see more of him! Just simply amazing!

This is just amazing to me! Here we have Mo Evan starting who is so bad that he could be on the floor for 19 minutes last night and Hawks fans want to see more of him! Just simply amazing!

If you understood anything, you'd know Mo is not the show. The show is flip. Mo Evans plays the same Woody Minutes that Royal Ivey played. Woody believes that Flip is better off the bench? I don't know why, but that's his belief. So nobody is clamouring for more Mo. If you see that in this thread (as you have said) point it out.

[exodus]

yeah, those defensive rebounds sure did a number on Utah's forward's FG%... Hell, they almost had the same number of attempts as before.

Sorry Ex,

Your change of subject is getting tiresome..

Speaking of changing the subject where did you mention forwards in this post? I must have missed it.

It's not just JJ's offense... our defense has been great since Marvin went down. GREAT. Last night in the 4th... 87-87... We shut Utah down after that.

You mentioned the Hawks defense and the defense will always be better when we are getting more defensive rebounds.

[AtLaS]

The truth is that Kobe, Lebron, and Wade are going to always get the call. No good head coach would play his best player on them. It just doesn't make sense to play your best guy on those guys knowing that they will draw foul after foul.

Wade = 9.4 FT/Game

James = 9.3 FT/Game

Kobe = 7.2 FT/Game

Joe = 4.6 FT/Game

That's the difference. It tells us that these guys drive to the rack. You don't put your best player in their way.

So why does Joe always guard Kobe when we play? How about Wade?