Diesel's theory on offensive production.

[Plainview1981]

First of all your thread got punked because we aren't scoring any more without Marvin.

Secondly JJ's scoring on 1 on 1 plays like he has done all year. He scored 10 of the Hawks first 16 points by taking his man off the dribble repeatedly. There wasn't any ball movement at all.

JJ does his thing and if the defense collapses he kicks it out. You act like Woody has suddenly changed his offensive scheme. Sorry that is just delusional. And it isn't like Marvin is a ball stopper. You are the one criticizing him for not being aggressive enough yet at the same time you say the ball movement is better without him. typical Diesel contradiction.

Hotlanta swore off watching the games weeks ago. How would he even know what the Hawks are doing?

The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested.

The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[exodus]

The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested.

The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well.

Marvin has the best true shooting percentage of everyone on the team that isn't a center. Meanwhile Mo has scored over 5 pts only once over the last 4 games.

Marvin's absence isn't the reason JJ started going off. Marvin's absence isn't the reason Smith started hitting the boards. Those are two big keys to the Hawks recent run.

[Peoriabird]

The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested.

The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well.

So the 6-0 start to the season is less important now than the current 4 game winning streak at home?

Edited March 16, 2009 by Peoriabird

[Plainview1981]

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this was another very impressive win. Rudy is not the key to Portlands success and Portland is still a very good team without Oden.

Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you.

[Joker]

Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you.

He does have impact on the offensive end. Mainly because of his close shot skills. Something that no other Blazers has outside of J. Bayless who's a guard. Plus this thread is laughable at best.

[Plainview1981]

He does have impact on the offensive end. Mainly because of his close shot skills. Something that no other Blazers has outside of J. Bayless who's a guard. Plus this thread is laughable at best.

But he's barely played. They're used to playing without him.

[jerrywest]

Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you.

Isn't Oden's PER 2nd among rookies?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=PERDiem-090313

[Plainview1981]

Isn't Oden's PER 2nd among rookies?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=PERDiem-090313

You missed my point. Oden has missed so much time since drafted that I don't think he should count all that much. Him not being in the lineup isn't really something new.

[crimedog]

I'm not against bringing Marv off the bench, but when I saw the thread title, I was pretty sure I knew what the "theory" was.

[jhay610]

So how is that team chemistry and ball movement and defense now? I still see Go Joe as our only offense. The "this team is better without Marvin in all facets of the game" theory is a complete farce.

To suggest that our offense looks better w/o Marvin and that we don't rely on Joe's Iso is out of touch with reality.

[Diesel]

So how is that team chemistry and ball movement and defense now? I still see Go Joe as our only offense. The "this team is better without Marvin in all facets of the game" theory is a complete farce.

To suggest that our offense looks better w/o Marvin and that we don't rely on Joe's Iso is out of touch with reality.

J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative.

I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not.

[Peoriabird]

J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative.

I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not.

So in other words, its a lose-lose proposition for Marvin! If the team wins, it will be"I told you that the offense and defense works better without Marvin!" If the team loses it will be "Marvin would not have made a difference anyway!" And bet that you don't see the bias in your arguments. But don't worry, everyone else does.

[benhillboy]

Quote from Diesel:

Now let's talk Sf shop...

Paul Pierce.

Lebron James

Shawn Marion

Danny Granger

Caron Butler

Rashard Lewis

Rudy Gay

Carmello Anthony

Vince

Artest

GForce Gerald Wallace

Durant

Josh Howard

Maggette

Deng

Jefferson

Moon

Dunleavy Jr.

Charlie V.

Thad Young

Al Thornton

Tayshun Prince

Grant Hill

Jeff Green

Damn. I usually compare Joe to many of these similarly sized players to illustrate his dreadful lack of power, explosiveness, and aggressiveness at the rack. When comparing Marvin, though, you clearly see that Marvin may have a better career than Moon or Dunleavy. The rest of these guys are pretty much leaps and bounds over Marvin now. If not, their past or future prime is far superior to his projected. Charlie, Thad, and Al give us fits at times to prove that point.

Edited March 28, 2009 by benhillboy

[exodus]

Quote from Diesel:

Now let's talk Sf shop...

Paul Pierce.

Lebron James

Shawn Marion

Danny Granger

Caron Butler

Rashard Lewis

Rudy Gay

Carmello Anthony

Vince

Artest

GForce Gerald Wallace

Durant

Josh Howard

Maggette

Deng

Jefferson

Moon

Dunleavy Jr.

Charlie V.

Thad Young

Al Thornton

Tayshun Prince

Grant Hill

Jeff Green

Damn. I usually compare Joe to many of these similarly sized players to illustrate his dreadful lack of power, explosiveness, and aggressiveness at the rack. When comparing Marvin, though, you clearly see that Marvin may have a better career than Moon or Dunleavy. The rest of these guys are pretty much leaps and bounds over Marvin now. If not, their past or future prime is far superior to his projected. Charlie, Thad, and Al gave us fits to prove that point.

LOL while your at it why don't you compare Marvin to point guards and centers?

[mattlanta]

Wait, I thought Mo played the 3 and JJ would play the 2 whenever they were both on the court? Wasn't Evans on LeBron the whole game? Or is it based on matchups most of the time

[tonegully]

Please comeback Marvin.

[DrReality]

Even Nique talked abaout JJ dribbling too much. He is the anti-offense guy. And the defense last night, and the night before neutralized him.

[FrankWhite]

Wait, the theory doesn't apply when they play good teams? Okay.

[exodus]

J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative.

I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not.

We barely lost to Boston at full strength earlier in the season. This time they were without KG and his backup and they clowned us.

The Spurs were without Duncan and Manu barely played (and looked like a joke when he did play). The Hawks should have beaten them easily. When the Hawks played in San Antonio earlier in the season (with Marvin) they had Duncan, Manu and Parker healthy and the Hawks still nearly won.

[Diesel]

So in other words, its a lose-lose proposition for Marvin! If the team wins, it will be"I told you that the offense and defense works better without Marvin!" If the team loses it will be "Marvin would not have made a difference anyway!" And bet that you don't see the bias in your arguments. But don't worry, everyone else does.

When you watch the continuity get better without Marvin... Exactly...

When you watch us get beat by a better team with better coaching... Exactly.

Look back over the past few losses we had. How many of them can we attribute to Woody? It's been Woody's switching defense and Woody's bad subbing pattern that has been to blame for these losses. Like I said the other day, we've come a long way with Woody but if we're going to be a next echelon team then Woody is going to have to change the way he coaches... That's independent of Marvin.