Plainview1981 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) First of all your thread got punked because we aren't scoring any more without Marvin. Secondly JJ's scoring on 1 on 1 plays like he has done all year. He scored 10 of the Hawks first 16 points by taking his man off the dribble repeatedly. There wasn't any ball movement at all. JJ does his thing and if the defense collapses he kicks it out. You act like Woody has suddenly changed his offensive scheme. Sorry that is just delusional. And it isn't like Marvin is a ball stopper. You are the one criticizing him for not being aggressive enough yet at the same time you say the ball movement is better without him. typical Diesel contradiction. Hotlanta swore off watching the games weeks ago. How would he even know what the Hawks are doing? The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested. The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well. Edited March 16, 2009 by Hotlanta1981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested. The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well. Marvin has the best true shooting percentage of everyone on the team that isn't a center. Meanwhile Mo has scored over 5 pts only once over the last 4 games. Marvin's absence isn't the reason JJ started going off. Marvin's absence isn't the reason Smith started hitting the boards. Those are two big keys to the Hawks recent run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted March 16, 2009 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) The Hawks are playing with more intensity so I have watched the last few games. There is PLENTY of ISO Joe... But for whatever reason the offense seems to flow abit better when Marvin isn't starting. This team has won a number of games now when Marvin hasn't started. With Josh and Marvin you have two and even 3 tweeners in the same lineup alot of the time. That might be part of the problem. That's what I suggested. The Josh Smith/Marvin combo isn't all that good. Marvin is an extremely awkward player. I don't believe he meshes with the team well. So the 6-0 start to the season is less important now than the current 4 game winning streak at home? Edited March 16, 2009 by Peoriabird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 It still doesn't take away from the fact that this was another very impressive win. Rudy is not the key to Portlands success and Portland is still a very good team without Oden. Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you. He does have impact on the offensive end. Mainly because of his close shot skills. Something that no other Blazers has outside of J. Bayless who's a guard. Plus this thread is laughable at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 He does have impact on the offensive end. Mainly because of his close shot skills. Something that no other Blazers has outside of J. Bayless who's a guard. Plus this thread is laughable at best. But he's barely played. They're used to playing without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrywest Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oden has contributed very little in his career so far. I don't think he should count to be honest with you. Isn't Oden's PER 2nd among rookies? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=PERDiem-090313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Isn't Oden's PER 2nd among rookies? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...=PERDiem-090313 You missed my point. Oden has missed so much time since drafted that I don't think he should count all that much. Him not being in the lineup isn't really something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimedog Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I'm not against bringing Marv off the bench, but when I saw the thread title, I was pretty sure I knew what the "theory" was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhay610 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So how is that team chemistry and ball movement and defense now? I still see Go Joe as our only offense. The "this team is better without Marvin in all facets of the game" theory is a complete farce. To suggest that our offense looks better w/o Marvin and that we don't rely on Joe's Iso is out of touch with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted March 28, 2009 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So how is that team chemistry and ball movement and defense now? I still see Go Joe as our only offense. The "this team is better without Marvin in all facets of the game" theory is a complete farce. To suggest that our offense looks better w/o Marvin and that we don't rely on Joe's Iso is out of touch with reality. J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative. I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted March 28, 2009 Premium Member Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative. I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not. So in other words, its a lose-lose proposition for Marvin! If the team wins, it will be"I told you that the offense and defense works better without Marvin!" If the team loses it will be "Marvin would not have made a difference anyway!" And bet that you don't see the bias in your arguments. But don't worry, everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) Quote from Diesel: Now let's talk Sf shop... Paul Pierce. Lebron James Shawn Marion Danny Granger Caron Butler Rashard Lewis Rudy Gay Carmello Anthony Vince Artest GForce Gerald Wallace Durant Josh Howard Maggette Deng Jefferson Moon Dunleavy Jr. Charlie V. Thad Young Al Thornton Tayshun Prince Grant Hill Jeff Green Damn. I usually compare Joe to many of these similarly sized players to illustrate his dreadful lack of power, explosiveness, and aggressiveness at the rack. When comparing Marvin, though, you clearly see that Marvin may have a better career than Moon or Dunleavy. The rest of these guys are pretty much leaps and bounds over Marvin now. If not, their past or future prime is far superior to his projected. Charlie, Thad, and Al give us fits at times to prove that point. Edited March 28, 2009 by benhillboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Quote from Diesel: Now let's talk Sf shop... Paul Pierce. Lebron James Shawn Marion Danny Granger Caron Butler Rashard Lewis Rudy Gay Carmello Anthony Vince Artest GForce Gerald Wallace Durant Josh Howard Maggette Deng Jefferson Moon Dunleavy Jr. Charlie V. Thad Young Al Thornton Tayshun Prince Grant Hill Jeff Green Damn. I usually compare Joe to many of these similarly sized players to illustrate his dreadful lack of power, explosiveness, and aggressiveness at the rack. When comparing Marvin, though, you clearly see that Marvin may have a better career than Moon or Dunleavy. The rest of these guys are pretty much leaps and bounds over Marvin now. If not, their past or future prime is far superior to his projected. Charlie, Thad, and Al gave us fits to prove that point. LOL while your at it why don't you compare Marvin to point guards and centers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlanta Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Wait, I thought Mo played the 3 and JJ would play the 2 whenever they were both on the court? Wasn't Evans on LeBron the whole game? Or is it based on matchups most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonegully Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Please comeback Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Even Nique talked abaout JJ dribbling too much. He is the anti-offense guy. And the defense last night, and the night before neutralized him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWhite Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Wait, the theory doesn't apply when they play good teams? Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 J, you act as if having Marvin would make one Iota of difference in what we do?? It won't. We would still run iso Joe. We would still do the same things we been doing. My point was that if we played Flip more, we give Joe a more confident outlet. A guy who knows how to score as opposed to Marvin who is sometimes tentative. I knew it would take the Cavs, Spurs, and Celtics to have people on this board claiming that Marvin is a game saver? He's not. We barely lost to Boston at full strength earlier in the season. This time they were without KG and his backup and they clowned us. The Spurs were without Duncan and Manu barely played (and looked like a joke when he did play). The Hawks should have beaten them easily. When the Hawks played in San Antonio earlier in the season (with Marvin) they had Duncan, Manu and Parker healthy and the Hawks still nearly won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted March 28, 2009 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 So in other words, its a lose-lose proposition for Marvin! If the team wins, it will be"I told you that the offense and defense works better without Marvin!" If the team loses it will be "Marvin would not have made a difference anyway!" And bet that you don't see the bias in your arguments. But don't worry, everyone else does. When you watch the continuity get better without Marvin... Exactly... When you watch us get beat by a better team with better coaching... Exactly. Look back over the past few losses we had. How many of them can we attribute to Woody? It's been Woody's switching defense and Woody's bad subbing pattern that has been to blame for these losses. Like I said the other day, we've come a long way with Woody but if we're going to be a next echelon team then Woody is going to have to change the way he coaches... That's independent of Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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