So, it looks like Childress isn't coming back...

[mrhonline]

Yes Chillz will take the Euro for 2 more years. He'll be a cap hold on us.

I don't think the owners mind. Chillz money + Claxton money paid by the insurance, means the total payroll expense stays far lower than the actual salary cap.,

Claxton is healthy. The Hawks aren't getting insurance payments from him.

Also, the cap hold on Childress isn't actually costing the Hawks money...

[AHF]

Do we know what the prognosis is on Marvin? Will he be able to return for the playoffs?

Here is what I have seen:

Mar 12 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports Thursday that Hawks forward Marvin Williams will not undergo surgery on his injured lower back and could play again this season. Williams said he will undergo weeks of intensive rehabilitation after being examined by specialists at Duke University Wednesday. He wants to return before the Hawks wrap up the regular season April 15. "It's going to be anywhere from four to six weeks," Williams said Thursday. "I'm going to dive into this treatment, make sure I get good rest and hopefully get back out there." Williams said specialists recommended he take the "conservative" approach and opt for treatment and rehabilitation over surgery. Williams is listed officially as being out indefinitely and the team issued no update on his condition Thursday.

Mar 15 F Marvin Williams is out indefinitely with a lower back injury.

Definitely a watch and see as far as whether this affects him significantly going forward and as far as his availability for the playoffs.

[AHF]

Claxton is healthy. The Hawks aren't getting insurance payments from him.

Also, the cap hold on Childress isn't actually costing the Hawks money...

Do we know whether the Hawks are getting insurance payments? He announced he is healthy but hasn't really been seen during any playing. Until I hear something on this, I think it is possible the team is still getting insurance payments.

[Plainview1981]

Actually, Marvin's back diagnosis is priority #1.

You may not like what I have to say here, but if Marvin's back is worthy of surgery consideration then it's not just a bruise or a sprain we're talking about.

secondly, if Marvin's back is worhty of surgery consideration then there's a chance that he might not ever be the same player.

That being the case, I'm not up for giving Marvin a speedy claxton contract to see how well he can match his ties to his suits.

I would rather sign Flip, Sign Childress to a short contract 3 year 17 million. and move from there.

We have a lot of talk about Marvin coming back, but right not the status is out indefinitely. Do you know how bad a player has to be to get the out indefinitely label?

Put your loyalties to the side for a moment.

If Marvin was playing for the Clipps right now, out indefinitely.. didn't play another game in the season, would you be saying " you know Sund ought to go after Marvin Williams."

call it hate... I call it business.

I didn't see any of you clamoring for Jay Williams, Demarr Johnson, or Sean Livingston after their injuries.

Marvin already plays like a hunchback. Just picture how he would play with a bad back?

[Packfill]

Here is what I have seen:

Definitely a watch and see as far as whether this affects him significantly going forward and as far as his availability for the playoffs.

Thanks AHF. Looks like best case scenario is he is back for the playoffs, but chances are he potentially misses the first series as well.

[jerrywest]

Claxton is healthy. The Hawks aren't getting insurance payments from him.

Also, the cap hold on Childress isn't actually costing the Hawks money...

Did Claxton's insurance money stop?

Childress qualifying offer counts against the cap. That means the owners have acually a lower cap than all the other NBA teams.

Hawks' cheap and broke owners must be happy with both these situations.

Claxton's insurance money is practically paying for Mo+Flip.

[Diesel]

Regardless of the circumstance, I wouldn't offer Chil the amount of money he wants. Especially with every team in the league trying to cut salary.

As far as trading him, don't forget its a SnT. That means that SOMEONE has to want to give Childress enough to entice him to come back. Whether he wants to come back or not, he's not going to take a huge (millions of $$$s a year) paycut just to play in the NBA, he'd be stupid to do that right now.

I don't know about that. Chillz sounded fearful in the phone interview he gave. I think the fans and media over there is a lot different than he expected. And they have placed the weight of the world on him (triple crown). Being that he has an option to move this summer and being that the Hawks still hold his rights, I think he'd be willing to sign a short term deal just to get back in the league.. even in a SNT. Mainly because he has made lots of money. He's finding that even if you're the best player in europe, it won't mean big cash returns in the NBA.

[jerrywest]

He's finding that even if you're the best player in europe, it won't mean big cash returns in the NBA.

Do you have any empirical evidence that Chillz is the best player in Europe?

[Diesel]

Thanks AHF. Looks like best case scenario is he is back for the playoffs, but chances are he potentially misses the first series as well.

I think hope is good, because we need all hands on Deck when the playoff comes. However, hearing Joe talk about Marvin.... I get a feeling that not everything is being said. From what has been said here and there, I think there may be some paralysis or something severe that would cause Joe to say bluntly if we have to go the rest of the season without him, then we realize injuries happen and we will do what we have to do. Or something along those lines... and this was before he chose to not have surgery. The thing is had it been back spasms caused by a herniated disc, then rehab wouldn't have been so long. I have heard of guys coming back from that in 2 weeks. Had it been a severely herniated disc, Marvin could have opted for surgery and would miss the rest of the season (ala Stevenson).

Here's the other thing. Tmac had back spasm caused by a lightly herniated disc... He lost all explosiveness.

Larry Johnson had back spasms caused by a lightly herniated disc... He lost all explosiveness.

I'm not saying that Marvin will be like them.. I'm just saying that I don't expect his game to be explosive if his injury is serious.

[Diesel]

Do you have any empirical evidence that Chillz is the best player in Europe?

Maybe I should have added an EVEN to my quote.

Even if you are the best player in Europe...

I'm not saying that CHillz is the best, but whoever the best may be won't get that much from the NBA. Especially not now with the financial situations going the way they are.

[jerrywest]

I think there may be some paralysis...

Dude, where do you come up with stuffs like that? You would be a great soap opera writer. Wasting your talent here.

[mrhonline]

Do we know whether the Hawks are getting insurance payments? He announced he is healthy but hasn't really been seen during any playing. Until I hear something on this, I think it is possible the team is still getting insurance payments.

1. The Hawks have a history of not playing vets they don't need. They're not playing him because they want those minutes to go to Acie Law. Claxton will be traded within the next five months, you can count on it.

2. We never knew if the Hawks were getting insurance payments at all. That was my speculation more than anything else.

3. Put yourself in the position of the insurance company. Would you pay millions to a team for an injured player that says he's not injured?

[jerrywest]

2. We never knew if the Hawks were getting insurance payments at all. That was my speculation more than anything else.

3. Put yourself in the position of the insurance company. Would you pay millions to a team for an injured player that says he's not injured?

2. Its well documented that 80% of his salary is being paid by insurance. Recently, in AJC, Craig claimed that he is healthy.

3. I agree. I wonder if his insurance checks stopped coming. I am sure Hawks would put him through severe testing before they declare him healthy. Who decides that?

[crimedog]

Maybe I should have added an EVEN to my quote.

Even if you are the best player in Europe...

I'm not saying that CHillz is the best, but whoever the best may be won't get that much from the NBA. Especially not now with the financial situations going the way they are.

I think this is exactly the point actually. When all is said and done, what is his net over there ~$8m or something (more I think when everything gets taken into consideration)? It would be a very ballsy move to give that up and take a short term contract to come to the NBA while the economy is depressed and teams are unlikely to overbid on middling players and with the new CBA that will be enacted, its unlikely he'll be able to get big dough in the future. Hell, if he does take a one year contract just to get back here, he takes the risk of losing big money for one year and then hitting a damn lockout.

I don't know, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but it just seems like he stands to lose a lot of cash if he comes back now. Does he care about that?

[Diesel]

Dude, where do you come up with stuffs like that? You would be a great soap opera writer. Wasting your talent here.

When Larry Johnson went down after a charity game (describe in a very similar manner to the way that Marvin fell)... he missed about 30 or so games too. The major problem was that he experienced some paralysis. Funny thing is that he had just signed a 12 year 84 million dollar deal. It was said that he had a severely herniated disc. He also was given the option of surgery and he also elected to go with rehab. If I'm not mistaken, I think he also went to Duke to see a specialist.

I mention that about Marvin because based on what I remember about guys who are offered surgery.. if that is an offering, it's more servere than just a strain or a lightly herniated disc.

Which is what I said from the get go. I don't know if there is paralysis, but the way Joe spoke... you don't come up with "miss the rest of the season" unless there's some major symptom. You don't go see a specialist, unless there's some major symptom.

[Diesel]

I think this is exactly the point actually. When all is said and done, what is his net over there ~$8m or something (more I think when everything gets taken into consideration)? It would be a very ballsy move to give that up and take a short term contract to come to the NBA while the economy is depressed and teams are unlikely to overbid on middling players and with the new CBA that will be enacted, its unlikely he'll be able to get big dough in the future. Hell, if he does take a one year contract just to get back here, he takes the risk of losing big money for one year and then hitting a damn lockout.

I don't know, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but it just seems like he stands to lose a lot of cash if he comes back now. Does he care about that?

Sometimes, the money loses it's luster.

Nique won a Eurochampionship and made a boatload of cash. I think he would have given all that up if he could have had one more year of playing free for the Hawks after Danny Manning.

You can't get around your circle of friends and say... Hey, I won a Eurochampionship? Every player wants to be at the big table playing for the big trophy... Every player wants to kiss the NBA championship that Jordan and Shaq and Kobe and Duncan held.

Also, CHillz sounded fearful on the phone. Sorta homesick.

[jerrywest]

When Larry Johnson went down after a charity game (describe in a very similar manner to the way that Marvin fell)... he missed about 30 or so games too. The major problem was that he experienced some paralysis.

I know a guy who died from back pain. I think Marvin has died and they are just hiding it. Now I know why he is not wearing his suit and tie on the bench. He is wearing suit and tie in a coffin.

[frosgrim]

When Larry Johnson went down after a charity game (describe in a very similar manner to the way that Marvin fell)... he missed about 30 or so games too. The major problem was that he experienced some paralysis. Funny thing is that he had just signed a 12 year 84 million dollar deal. It was said that he had a severely herniated disc. He also was given the option of surgery and he also elected to go with rehab. If I'm not mistaken, I think he also went to Duke to see a specialist.

I mention that about Marvin because based on what I remember about guys who are offered surgery.. if that is an offering, it's more servere than just a strain or a lightly herniated disc.

Which is what I said from the get go. I don't know if there is paralysis, but the way Joe spoke... you don't come up with "miss the rest of the season" unless there's some major symptom. You don't go see a specialist, unless there's some major symptom.

I've had back spasms caused by impact (car accident, mtn and road cycle accidents). They can be extremely debilitating, but when they resolve, they resolve. You have to strengthen the area and keep up with exercise, but there is no reason to expect that Marvin has any thing more than a persistant spasm. I too was offered the surgery, but I declined and my back is fine enough now.

[jerrywest]

I've had back spasms caused by impact (car accident, mtn and road cycle accidents). They can be extremely debilitating, but when they resolve, they resolve. You have to strengthen the area and keep up with exercise, but there is no reason to expect that Marvin has any thing more than a persistant spasm. I too was offered the surgery, but I declined and my back is fine enough now.

Who cares about you? I am pretending you don't exist. Marvin is dead

[mrhonline]

2. Its well documented that 80% of his salary is being paid by insurance. Recently, in AJC, Craig claimed that he is healthy.

Care to share some of that documentation?