"Offense is not a team sport"

[exodus]

That is right, you heard it here first. Diesel's Marvin hate has made him go so far out in left field that the catcher couldn't see him with binoculars.

Offense stopped being a team sport when David Stern took over and the Detroit Pistons were ushered out. Why do you think we hear so much about the Kobes, Lebrons, and Wades? Offense is not a team sport.

And here is another little nugget which will surely be news to everyone also.

We rarely set screens for Joe.

:laughing5:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....35807&st=40

[buckeye242424]

That is right, you heard it here first. Diesel's Marvin hate has made him go so far out in left field that the catcher couldn't see him with binoculars.

And here is another little nugget which will surely be news to everyone also.

:laughing5:

Everything about basketball is a team sport! LOL. That's why there are five players on the court at the same time! We may not look like it offensively, but offense is a team concept...granted it appears JJ is our offense, but you still need five guys out there to guard!!!

[Peoriabird]

That is right, you heard it here first. Diesel's Marvin hate has made him go so far out in left field that the catcher couldn't see him with binoculars.

:laughing5:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....35807&st=40

Why does anybody take Diesel seriously? I stopped long time ago! I see good post Diesel form several posters all of the time and it makes me wonder about them! Either his HD is in braille or he is just making up stuff to get posters riled up! I have never been this at odds with anyone concerning sports because most of the time thing are pretty clear cut.

"Joe Johnson rarely gets a screen" is just one example of many foolish things this guy types on a daily basis!

Edited March 17, 2009 by Peoriabird

[DrReality]

D's number one goal on HS is to get people riled up. Gotta take him with a boulder (not a grain) of salt. He is a walking contradiction.

[Diesel]

Everything about basketball is a team sport! LOL. That's why there are five players on the court at the same time! We may not look like it offensively, but offense is a team concept...granted it appears JJ is our offense, but you still need five guys out there to guard!!!

The only place where offense is still a team sport is in Utah.

you guys are funny to me.

I have been watching this game much longer than you all... I can tell. If you had watched as long as me, you would know what offense being team oriented means. You've been raised on isolations and two man games. You don't know what it means to have 5 guys in motion doing something that benefits the offense. You probably never watched UCLA under Wooden. I think that's our communication problem.

I have knowledge of what team offense looks like and you think your isolations and 2 man games are team offense.

It's sad... the sadness is that you think you're right?

Like I told Ex before. Ideal is not reality.

Guys who know what I know would love to see more motion in the offense and more ball movement and more team play on the offensive end. However, that's the IDEAL picture. Reality is that we still have Iso Joe and Lebron isolation low post drive. and Wade down the middle. And Kobe dominate the ball... Basketball on the offensive end has lost it's team identity.

Please continue to argue differently so that it will be on the record.

[jerrywest]

The only place where offense is still a team sport is in Utah.

you guys are funny to me.

I have been watching this game much longer than you all... I can tell. If you had watched as long as me, you would know what offense being team oriented means. You've been raised on isolations and two man games. You don't know what it means to have 5 guys in motion doing something that benefits the offense. You probably never watched UCLA under Wooden. I think that's our communication problem.

I have knowledge of what team offense looks like and you think your isolations and 2 man games are team offense.

It's sad... the sadness is that you think you're right?

Like I told Ex before. Ideal is not reality.

Guys who know what I know would love to see more motion in the offense and more ball movement and more team play on the offensive end. However, that's the IDEAL picture. Reality is that we still have Iso Joe and Lebron isolation low post drive. and Wade down the middle. And Kobe dominate the ball... Basketball on the offensive end has lost it's team identity.

Please continue to argue differently so that it will be on the record.

We are on the brink of a masterpiece worthy of replacing Traceman's current signature.

[buckeye242424]

The only place where offense is still a team sport is in Utah.

you guys are funny to me.

I have been watching this game much longer than you all... I can tell. If you had watched as long as me, you would know what offense being team oriented means. You've been raised on isolations and two man games. You don't know what it means to have 5 guys in motion doing something that benefits the offense. You probably never watched UCLA under Wooden. I think that's our communication problem.

I have knowledge of what team offense looks like and you think your isolations and 2 man games are team offense.

It's sad... the sadness is that you think you're right?

Like I told Ex before. Ideal is not reality.

Guys who know what I know would love to see more motion in the offense and more ball movement and more team play on the offensive end. However, that's the IDEAL picture. Reality is that we still have Iso Joe and Lebron isolation low post drive. and Wade down the middle. And Kobe dominate the ball... Basketball on the offensive end has lost it's team identity.

Please continue to argue differently so that it will be on the record.

Comparing and offense ran by UCLA in the 60's as opposed to a current NBA team 50 years later is apples to oranges. I'm not saying that the Hawks "offense" isnt bad. JJ is asked to do way too much. However, my argument is that our offense is still a team game. No matter what sets, motion, flex, post, whatever, it's still a team oriented philosophy. Let's not put the other 4 guys out on the floor, and JJ can do the same thing correct? That's your reasoning.

[exodus]

The only place where offense is still a team sport is in Utah.

you guys are funny to me.

I have been watching this game much longer than you all... I can tell. If you had watched as long as me, you would know what offense being team oriented means. You've been raised on isolations and two man games. You don't know what it means to have 5 guys in motion doing something that benefits the offense. You probably never watched UCLA under Wooden. I think that's our communication problem.

I have knowledge of what team offense looks like and you think your isolations and 2 man games are team offense.

It's sad... the sadness is that you think you're right?

Like I told Ex before. Ideal is not reality.

Guys who know what I know would love to see more motion in the offense and more ball movement and more team play on the offensive end. However, that's the IDEAL picture. Reality is that we still have Iso Joe and Lebron isolation low post drive.

Oh really? That isn't what you were saying two days ago.

Here's the deal, we who have watched have noticed a change in the way our offense plays. For starters, we don't run ISO joe... As I schooled you on last time, just because Joe has the ball in his hands it doesn't mean that it's an iso play. I would have thought you would have gone and tried to google what Iso is by now.

Second. I don't think our scoring has been this balanced all season. Even with Joe's streak of thirty. We're getting 4 and 5 players into double digit.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....35801&st=60

So i guess our offense completely changed since Sunday, right?

:slap1:

[High5]

Diesel will say whatever it takes to fail at making a point.

[Peoriabird]

Diesel will say whatever it takes to fail at making a point.

:friends1:

[Diesel]

Oh really? That isn't what you were saying two days ago.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....35801&st=60

So i guess our offense completely changed since Sunday, right?

:slap1:

You're comparing 4 seasons to 1 game?

Good one Ex!!!

[exodus]

You're comparing 4 seasons to 1 game?

Good one Ex!!!

Nice try. Your quote doesn't have to do with one game. It is talking about since Marvin has been out.

Here's the deal, we who have watched have noticed a change in the way our offense plays. For starters, we don't run ISO joe... As I schooled you on last time, just because Joe has the ball in his hands it doesn't mean that it's an iso play.

"last time" as in it was an ongoing conversation not about any one game in particular.

It is pretty clear that your vision of the Hawks offense depends entirely on what thread you are posting in.

[Diesel]

Comparing and offense ran by UCLA in the 60's as opposed to a current NBA team 50 years later is apples to oranges. I'm not saying that the Hawks "offense" isnt bad. JJ is asked to do way too much. However, my argument is that our offense is still a team game. No matter what sets, motion, flex, post, whatever, it's still a team oriented philosophy. Let's not put the other 4 guys out on the floor, and JJ can do the same thing correct? That's your reasoning.

The thing is Buckeye is that over those 50 years, defense is still ran pretty much the same way (with the exception of Zone has been allowed back into the game). Teams still have very similar defensive game plans as before.

Offenses however, have become these one on one festivals where everybodies favorite player gets a clear out and is allowed to try to score against another team. And Ex and his merry men want to call that a team game?

I want you all to think about that the next time you're watching any basketball game and it's the fourth quarter and the game is close. What you will see is the star player with the ball in his hands trying to redo Jordan over the Cavs..

Moreover, it was not long ago that people on this board were upset because we lost a game and Joe didn't take the last shot. He gave it up to Flip who missed. Are you saying that we are not being brain washed to believe in a one man team version of offense in basketball?

Like I said previously. Those who know about the game before Stern can't help but agree that offense is no longer played as a team sport. The same guys who are putting up arguments that it is are the same ones who said curses to Lenny Wilken's motion offense.

[exodus]

This from the same thread, before the Portland game.

I think JJ has a natural advantage playing the 3. Normally at the 3, his switch is to a 4 and not a 1. Joe can size up and eat up most 3's and 4s.

Flip is our wildcard. Flip, Bibby, Joe gives a 1,2,3 that is really hard for a lot of teams to defend. Because just like tonight, Joe can find his shooters. It also opens up the floor for Smoove and Horf to work. Like it or not, when we spread the floor, the interior has huge holes in it and Josh and Horf can work from the high post and drive or face up.

That looks suspiciously like a team concept to me.

[Diesel]

Nice try. Your quote doesn't have to do with one game. It is talking about since Marvin has been out.

"last time" as in it was an ongoing conversation not about any one game in particular.

It is pretty clear that your vision of the Hawks offense depends entirely on what thread you are posting in.

Actually, last time corresponds to two posts previous in the thread...

When I said...

Iso joe is not in full swing and maybe our pace have changed... Thing is that when you watch the game you see our ball movement is a lot better.

Moreover, you say everyone can see it except Diesel? What's this antidiesel propaganda.. I told you that as we win more and more, your arguments will be shown as the silliness that they are.

Even Hotlanta is claiming that our ball movement and offense is better. I think the only ones missing it are those who are not watching the game. ISo Joe full swing??? You're funny. Go back to Realgm and get their version of the game before you come back!!!

Good one Ex!!!

:no-no: :sad:

[Diesel]

This from the same thread, before the Portland game.

That looks suspiciously like a team concept to me.

AGAIN 1 GAME OR MAYBE 2... versus 4 years??

Good one Ex...

You're brilliant?

:no-no:

[exodus]

Actually, last time corresponds to two posts previous in the thread...

When I said...

Good one Ex!!!

:no-no: :sad:

So in other words you are saying that our ball movement was better in the Portland game but not in the other 3 games Marvin missed. That would mean that the Hawks better ball movement in that one game most likely has nothing to do with Marvin.

Thanks for the clarification.

Since you were talking about the Portland game only i am a little confused about your "balanced scoring" comment since JJ scored more points than any two Hawks and Flip/Mo combined for only 5 pts. You must be using Diesel Math again.

[exodus]

Since your memory isn't very good i should remind you that your "last time" comment was in regards to the 3 pt shot JJ took from well behind the 3 pt line in transition in the 3rd quarter against a different team.

[Diesel]

Since your memory isn't very good i should remind you that your "last time" comment was in regards to the 3 pt shot JJ took from well behind the 3 pt line in transition in the 3rd quarter against a different team.

Yeah, that's right.. From the Utah game.

Robin: Holy 2 games Batman. Exodus is remarking about 2 games.

Batman: I wonder why exodus would ignore the 312 games played under Woody and just focus on a quote about two?

Robin: Gee Willikers Batman, I think he's trying to build a strawman.

Batman: ScareCrow!!! Exactly right. He's using his mind control to try to fool the good people of Hawksquawk. To the Batmobile!

[exodus]

Yeah, that's right.. From the Utah game.

Robin: Holy 2 games Batman. Exodus is remarking about 2 games.

Batman: I wonder why exodus would ignore the 312 games played under Woody and just focus on a quote about two?

Robin: Gee Willikers Batman, I think he's trying to build a strawman.

Batman: ScareCrow!!! Exactly right. He's using his mind control to try to fool the good people of Hawksquawk. To the Batmobile!

On the basis of ONE GAME Diesel concludes that the Hawks have gone from an iso Joe offense to a non-iso Joe offense, from a non-team offense to a team offense.

Somehow he makes a connection to Marvin even though the offense was iso Joe in the first 3 games Marvin missed during this streak.

Diesel Logic at it's best.