No Marvin, no problem? Hawks' road test against Cavs is barometer...

[jerrywest]

And I don't think Diesel hates Marvin, nobody hates Marvin...

you surely live in an imaginary world.

[jerrywest]

And, for what it's worth, I don't think that Cleveland is a good barometer. They're virtually unbeatable at home.

The game in Philly at the end of the month will be the real barometer.

None of these games are good barometers. What if Bibby goes 8-10 shooting 3 pointers tomorrow and we win it. What does Marvin or Mo have to do with that?

Anyone with half a brain should see that Mo can't defend big guys like Dirk.

He can't reboud like Marvin. He can't slash like Marvin. His minutes haven't significantly gone up since Marvin left. Look at Hollinger's chat wrap today.

There so much wrong with the first post. Horf was playing great with Marv until he got injured. Josh made a career out of playing with Marvin and they feed off of each other. What a silly rant.

[mrhonline]

I'm glad you said that. SO, if we go into Cleveland and beat the unbeatable... will it take away the homecourt advantage excuse that people have been giving for the streak??

Absolutely.

And, equally so, if the Hawks get their butts handed to them, it's not "because Marvin isn't playing."

[jhay610]

Exodus:

Each game that the Hawks play without Marvin just further proves my point or my hypothesis. This seven game home-winning streak is no fluke or anomaly. And the subsequent road tests and future home visits from the Lakers, Spurs and Celtics will test my No MW theory even more..

New formula: No MW=More ATL wins...

LOL. And you had mentioned lottery numbers, for tonight's Mega Millions: 5, 23, 28, 43,47 and 8 is Mega Ball...just for you..LOL

The Hawks are 27-7 at home. They had a 7-1 homestand earlier this year and the loss was to Boston (when they were playing like champs) by a point.

We haven't seen anything until they go on the road.

Edited March 20, 2009 by jhay610

[jhay610]

The Hawks also have a better record since letting Childress go.

The above is a spurious argument that lacks any real-time evidence. No one can adequately control for the natural maturation of the other players ont he team, nor the full season with a healthy Bibby. But one way to look at the result is that Childress prevented the Hawks from winning more than 37 games. Again its spurious and lacks any creadible evidence, but its the sort of argument the anti-Marvinites are making.

Attributing the current winning streak to being without Marvin is putting to events together and assuming a correlation. This is especially true when there are other mitigating factors. Marvin's injury occured at the same time that the team had its internal dicussion about playing hard (er-hmm Josh Smith's laziness on the boards) AND Woodson yanking Smith out of the game. You can make the equivical argument that it was this internal meeting and Smith getting serious on the boards that has lead to the current homestand. Also, during this time period Al Horford has increasingly become more vocal and more focused on the offensive end. This focus and play occured prior to Marvin's injury.

The reality is the Hawks were dominant at home before Marvin was hurt, its not surprising that they kept it up, given that Smith & Horfrod picked up thier games.

Monster post. We're not worthy....

[BusBoyIsBack]

One road game may or may not tell the whole story, but after having a very successful homestand-- the best since the late 1970's-- without their former number one draft choice Marvin Williams may give us a bigger indication that the chemistry is much better without MW receiving starter's minutes.

The Cavs are the best in the league right now with a great home record. It will be interesting to see how the Hawks respond to this road test. This team has proven they can adjust after slow starts and come back and beat teams--good teams (i.e. Utah, Portland, New Orleans, Dallas etc..)

The Hawks were dominant during the homestand winning by an average of twelve points! With Marvin playing his usual minutes as a starter, there would have been more nailbiters and bad losses that shouldn't have happened.

To me, the Cavs have always been beatable, but the lack of chemistry and execution on offense had always been an Achilles heel.

It's not exclusively about whether Maurice Evans is better than MW, but does the team execute their offense better without MW period...

There had been opposing theories that say people are all wrong about Marvin, but a team without Marvin getting significant minutes means a more happier Josh, a more effective Horford, a more productive JJ and mixing in the contributions of Zaza, Maurice and 6th man of the year nominee Flip Murray means the Hawks are better team with the unit they have playing right now.

Correlation does not imply causation. This is so stupid if this is a national article.

The Hawks are good at home PERIOD. The Hawks started 6-0 WITH Marvin including going on the road.

[buckeye242424]

I'm glad you said that. SO, if we go into Cleveland and beat the unbeatable... will it take away the homecourt advantage excuse that people have been giving for the streak??

Yes. If Atlanta wins tomorrow, Mo should start the rest of the year. This close to playoff time, you have to stick with what is working if the team is winning. If Marvin ever does come back, work in him the rotation coming off the bench...maybe ease a little pressure off Flip with our second unit..

[Dsinner]

I have no problem with people stating opinions. What i have a problem with is people stating their opinions as facts. obviously you don't understand the difference.

You get picked on a lot in the real world huh?

[exodus]

You get picked on a lot in the real world huh?

Not at all. If anything i am known as the jokester at work, always messing with everyone else. I am sort of the daily entertainment there.

Away from work i have found that people aren't going to go out of their way to pick on someone 6'2" 190 . I have played ball with Boss Tweed and i think he would verify that i wouldn't generally be seen as an easy target for needling.

Not sure why any of that has any relevance to the hawks though. I guess you probably decided to get personal since you couldn't deny the truth of my response.

[AmishBoy]

The reason the Hawks are improved on this homestand is because Miami was on their *ss in the standings. They didn't want to lose that 4th place and homecourt advantage. They've done that pretty much all year since they passed up Detroit in the standings. When Detroit got close again the hawks won a few, when Miami gets close the Hawks win a few.

[HAWKS1986]

The Hawks are 27-7 at home. They had a 7-1 homestand earlier this year and the loss was to Boston (when they were playing like champs) by a point.

We haven't seen anything until they go on the road.

The Hawks have shown us something thus far. When the Hawks are able to beat New Orleans, Utah, Portland, Denver THAT IS SIGNIFICANT. This team has shown growth with the absence of Marvin Williams. On that West Coast trip against Houston, San Antonio, Lakers and Dallas, the Hawks lost them all...

The Hawks progress on the road against above .500/.600 teams is the next step. Flip and Maurice are more likely to come up with big games on the road than Marvin Williams..(Yeah I said it..) Marvin has a better skillset than Mo and has better size than Flip, but on the road is where you see the maturity and skillset come out... Marvin was a no-show in Boston during the playoffs (against Boston, he had 9, 13, 12 and 7 points respectively) I am not trying to put all the blame on Boston, but as a former Top 2 franchise player pick who is suppose to take the pressure off Joe and even Bibby, IT DID NOT HAPPEN... Call it stage fright, lack of talent/athleticism Marvin's growth as a player revolves around how he handles pressure on the road. His contemporaries Chris Paul, Deron and others have adapted, but Marvin is still at first base.

Marvin's minutes need to be re-assigned or reallocated to Flip, Maurice and even Zaza/West.

Marvin has shown improvement in his game, but he is still tentative shooting the three and gets stripped way too much driving to the basket. And when is the last time Marvin had a great fourth quarter to seal a Hawks victory...fans can recall Bibby, JJ and even Flip taking shots and making impact plays, but after four years Marvin's big play scrapbook is virtually empty...

Flip's play as the sixth man has proven he wants to be held accountable and wants to take the big shots when it counts whether its in the fourth quarter or on the road. For Marvin, after four years, just haven't raised his game to that point..he can hit ONE three point shot (yeah... yahoo..), but can Marvin take over a game? MW has had his chances (especially on the road against the Spurs, Lakers, Utah, Houston ) this year and the previous three years.

This new paradigm shift without Marvin is something that has propelled the Hawks in a better position to be more competitive on the road and go further in the playoffs.

Marvin

[LOL_Hawks]

All I know is this: Anybody who says that we are winning because Marvin is gone has to be, in some way, shape or form, kidding. I think someone brought it up earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat it: There were people that were saying the same thing when JJ missed a couple of games. Basically, the "Are we better w/o ___________" is a stupid argument, IMO. The only time that that can legitimately be answered is playoff time, since we all know that this team is basically built for playoff action, since they get up for big games and there's nothing but big games in the playoffs. And besides, Marvin's been a HUGE help this year, he's definitely improved since last year. It's kind of ridiculous in my opinion to say that we're better off w/o Marvin.

With that said...I'm REALLY hoping that our confidence and great play at home carries into Cleveland. If it does, then we could have an epic showdown like the one in Boston earlier in the season. Hopefully we come out on the winning side of the deal this time.

Edited March 21, 2009 by LOL_Hawks

[exodus]

The Hawks progress on the road against above .500/.600 teams is the next step. Flip and Maurice are more likely to come up with big games on the road than Marvin Williams..(Yeah I said it..)

Marvin dropped 31 in Denver. It would take Mo at least 4 games to get that many points.

And when is the last time Marvin had a great fourth quarter to seal a Hawks victory

Marvin has hit a bunch of clutch 3s late in games this year, including at NOH and at Boston. sorry you missed them.

[HAWKS1986]

Marvin dropped 31 in Denver. It would take Mo at least 4 games to get that many points.

Marvin has hit a bunch of clutch 3s late in games this year, including at NOH and at Boston. sorry you missed them.

X-man: Marvin is no more clutch than Acie Law or Mario West....Chris Crawford was more clutch than Marvin

[exodus]

X-man: Marvin is no more clutch than Acie Law or Mario West....Chris Crawford was more clutch than Marvin

Yeah i am sure those guys could hit the go ahead 3s late in games on the road against NOH and Boston. I am sure they could drop 31 in Denver.

[smithrules]

Absolutely.

And, equally so, if the Hawks get their butts handed to them, it's not "because Marvin isn't playing."

maybe so maybe not. I have always thought marvin did a good job at semi containing james as well as anyone. Marvin is pretty big and athletic in a odd way lol. He moves his feet well agaisnt lebron. If you can make lebron shoot jumpers your doing good because his jump shot isn't very good at all.

[BusBoyIsBack]

maybe so maybe not. I have always thought marvin did a good job at semi containing james as well as anyone. Marvin is pretty big and athletic in a odd way lol. He moves his feet well agaisnt lebron. If you can make lebron shoot jumpers your doing good because his jump shot isn't very good at all.

He was also stripping the ball from Lebron and actually drove on Lebron.

The Cavs were at an advantage when MARVIN WENT OUT.

[jhay610]

X-man: Marvin is no more clutch than Acie Law or Mario West....Chris Crawford was more clutch than Marvin

There goes the last scrap of your credibility. Neither Acie or Mario shoot it with half the aplomb that Marvin does. If I see Mario West pull up for a go-ahead 3 at the end of the game I will then look to the sky expecting our Lord and Savior to be on His way.

[jhay610]

One road game may or may not tell the whole story, but after having a very successful homestand-- the best since the late 1970's-- without their former number one draft choice Marvin Williams may give us a bigger indication that the chemistry is much better without MW receiving starter's minutes.

The Cavs are the best in the league right now with a great home record. It will be interesting to see how the Hawks respond to this road test. This team has proven they can adjust after slow starts and come back and beat teams--good teams (i.e. Utah, Portland, New Orleans, Dallas etc..)

The Hawks were dominant during the homestand winning by an average of twelve points! With Marvin playing his usual minutes as a starter, there would have been more nailbiters and bad losses that shouldn't have happened.

To me, the Cavs have always been beatable, but the lack of chemistry and execution on offense had always been an Achilles heel.

It's not exclusively about whether Maurice Evans is better than MW, but does the team execute their offense better without MW period...

There had been opposing theories that say people are all wrong about Marvin, but a team without Marvin getting significant minutes means a more happier Josh, a more effective Horford, a more productive JJ and mixing in the contributions of Zaza, Maurice and 6th man of the year nominee Flip Murray means the Hawks are better team with the unit they have playing right now.

Correlation does not imply causation. This is so stupid if this is a national article.

The Hawks are good at home PERIOD. The Hawks started 6-0 WITH Marvin including going on the road.

You really think that there is even a remote possibility that was quoted from an article written by someone in the national media? If someone from a reputable media outlet turned that in to an editor he would be given his walking papers.

That is vintage message-board fodder; I can't even begin to outline all the things wrong with it. Please tell me journalism hasn't fallen off that far.

[jhay610]

...as a former Top 2 franchise player pick who is suppose to take the pressure off Joe and even Bibby, IT DID NOT HAPPEN... Call it stage fright, lack of talent/athleticism Marvin's growth as a player revolves around how he handles pressure on the road. His contemporaries Chris Paul, Deron and others have adapted, but Marvin is still at first base.

Chris Paul and Deron Williams are not relevant to the argument that Marvin Williams shoud/should not be starting on this Hawks team.