What players on the Hawks need to be resigned after this year?

[JackB1]

I would like to know who, besides Bibby, needs to be resigned after this season is over?

With the non-development and injuries of Law, re-signing Bibby is a must.

[coachx]

I would like to know who, besides Bibby, needs to be resigned after this season is over?

With the non-development and injuries of Law, re-signing Bibby is a must.

Marvin is a restricted free agent....meaning we can match any other team's signed offer sheet and keep Marvin. Like Smith last off season, we will play the waiting game and let the market set his price......especially in today's economy. He is the only player we can treat that way b/c all the other guys are "unrestricted free agents."

Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, West, Solo, and Gardner are unrestricted free agents....meaning we do not have the right to match other teams offers. That means if we want them, we will need to come with our best offer early in the FA process.

JJ will be a unrestricted free agent after next season. That means if we do not sign him to an extension in the off season he will be free to go to the highest bidder after the 2010 playoffs. There will be plenty of teams who cleared out cap space for Lebron, Wade, or Bosh that will not get them. JJ would be a good consolation prize for those teams. That means it would be nice to give JJ a contract extension this off season to take him off the market for the much anticipated 2010 free agent spending frenzy.

Flip and ZaZa really need to be brought back. They are perfect role players for this roster.

We do need Marvin back BUT if another teams offers him a 5 year $50 mill deal it will be tough to match since JJ will be a unrestricted free agent in 2010 and Horford will be a restricted free agent in 2011. The GM has to plan to have cap room to keep those 2 over Marvin, in my opinion. Marvin is very important to this team, but not as important as Horford and JJ...............wing players are a dime a dozen. We could bring in a wing replacement similar to a Mo Evans or Matt Barnes ,on the cheap, to replace Marvin if he gets a high dollar offer.

We do need Bibby back too. We just don't have the right to match another team's offer. He is a guy I would hate to over-pay on a 4 year contract at the age of 30. I would hate to see his game in 4 years, at 34 years of age, if the contract is more then $8 mill per. A front loaded contract would be best for Bibby. A 4 year deal that pays him $10 mill in year 1, $9 mill in year 2, $8 mill in year 3, and $7 mill in year 4 would be ideal. That would give us a little more wiggle room to resign JJ in 2010 and Horford in 2011.

I could see us letting Bibby walk if he wants more then $8 mill per year and drafting a PG. Then let Flip, Law, and the 1st round pick fight it out for playing time. Again, there has to me money under the luxury tax to keep JJ and Horford long term over the aging Bibby. I do not consider the ASG "cheap" for not wanting to play a 100% luxury tax. No team in the league wants that right now.

Sund will have a lot of cards to play. Chillz can be signed and then traded. Marvin can be signed and traded. There is a 1st round pick out there (which we dod not have last year since it went to the Suns to complete the JJ trade). The rights to David Anderson are still owned by the Hawks. It should be a pretty intersting off season.

Edited March 31, 2009 by coachx

[Dsinner]

Marvin is a restricted free agent....meaning we can match any other teams offer and keep him. Like Smith last off season.

Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, West, Solo, and are Gardner unrestricted free agents....meaning we do not have the right to match other teams offers. That means if we want them, we will need to come with our best offer early in the FA process.

JJ will be a unrestricted free agent after next season. That means if we do not sign him to an extension in the off season he will be free to go to the highest bidder after the 2010 playoffs. There will be plenty of teams who cleared out cap space for Lebron, Wade, or Bosh that will not get them. JJ would be a good consolation prize for those teams. Therefor, it would be nice to give JJ a contract extension this off season to take him off the market for the much anticipated 2010 free agent spending frenzy.

Flip and ZaZa really need to be brought back. They are peerfect role players for this roster.

We do need Marvin back BUT if another teams offers him a 5 year $50 mill deal it will be tough to match since JJ will be a unrestericted free agent in 2010 and Horford will be a restricted free agent in 2011.

We do need Bibby back too. We just don't have the right to match another team's offer. He is a guy I would hate to over pay for on a 4 year contract. I would hate to see his game in 4 years, at 34 years of age, if the contract is more then $8 mill per. A front loaded contract would be best for Bibby. A 4 year deal that pays him $10 mill in year 1, $9 mill in year 2, $8 mill in year 3, and $7 mill in year 4 would be ideal. That would give us a little more wiggle room to resign JJ in 2010 and Horford in 2011.

We do need to bring back Z and Flip. Flip is a lose-lose situation as far as I'm concerned. I think bringing Woody back will be the deciding factor on whether or not Flip resigns. He loves playing in Woody's offensive scheme (whatever that means) and I don't see him coming back if Woody isn't here AND he can make more $$$ elsewhere.

As far as Bibby goes I wouldn't mind signing him to a decent (for us) 4 year deal. I don't think his game will deteriorate all that much in 4 years plus we better not even have him as a starter by then. If we fail to find a younger starting PG in 4 years then we are screwed anyway. For the next year or two Bibby is, if nothing else, a great leader for our club. At the Lakers game I was watching both teams warm up and it was obvious the Hawks were having more fun. Bibby was of course the instigator in all the clowining. The Lakers, on the other hand, were all business. No joking, no laughing, no chestbumping lay-up drills etc. Two things went through my head at this point...1)Bibby's making sure we're relaxed for this atmosphere and don't play too tight, 2)We're going to get slaughtered by a more focused Lakers team. Obviously number 1 prevailed which is just another reason why I believe Bibby fits this team perfectly.

[buckeye242424]

Marvin is a restricted free agent....meaning we can match any other team's signed offer sheet and keep Marvin. Like Smith last off season, we will play the waiting game and the let the market set his price......especially in today's economy. He is the only player we can treat that way b/c all the other guys are "unrestricted free agents."

Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, West, Solo, and are Gardner unrestricted free agents....meaning we do not have the right to match other teams offers. That means if we want them, we will need to come with our best offer early in the FA process.

JJ will be a unrestricted free agent after next season. That means if we do not sign him to an extension in the off season he will be free to go to the highest bidder after the 2010 playoffs. There will be plenty of teams who cleared out cap space for Lebron, Wade, or Bosh that will not get them. JJ would be a good consolation prize for those teams. That means it would be nice to give JJ a contract extension this off season to take him off the market for the much anticipated 2010 free agent spending frenzy.

Flip and ZaZa really need to be brought back. They are perfect role players for this roster.

We do need Marvin back BUT if another teams offers him a 5 year $50 mill deal it will be tough to match since JJ will be a unrestricted free agent in 2010 and Horford will be a restricted free agent in 2011. the GM has to plan to have cap room to keep those 2 over Marvin, in my opinion. Marvin is very important to this team, but not as important as Horford and JJ...............wing players are a dime a dozen. We could bring in a wing replacement similar to a Mo Evans or Matt Barnes ,on the cheap, to replace Marvin if he gets a high dollar offer.

We do need Bibby back too. We just don't have the right to match another team's offer. He is a guy I would hate to over-pay on a 4 year contract at the age of 30. I would hate to see his game in 4 years, at 34 years of age, if the contract is more then $8 mill per. A front loaded contract would be best for Bibby. A 4 year deal that pays him $10 mill in year 1, $9 mill in year 2, $8 mill in year 3, and $7 mill in year 4 would be ideal. That would give us a little more wiggle room to resign JJ in 2010 and Horford in 2011.

I could see us letting Bibby walk (if he wants more then $8 to $8.5 mill per year and drafting a PG. Then let Flip, Law, and the 1st round pick fight it out for playing time.

Sund will have a lot of cards to play. Chillz can be signed and then traded. Marvin can be signed and traded. There is a 1st round pick out there (which we dod not have last year since it went to the Suns to complete the JJ trade). The rights to David Anderson are still owned by the Hawks. It should be a pretty intersting off season.

I believe we need to keep this team together as much as possible. No one can argue that the team has grown, and keeping the pieces together would be important to continued success. By pieces, I mean signing Marvin, Flip, and Zaza. Bibby, for the price, perhaps not so much. JJ, Horf, Smoove, Marvin, Flip, Zaza need to be in Hawks uni's next year.

[coachx]

I believe we need to keep this team together as much as possible. No one can argue that the team has grown, and keeping the pieces together would be important to continued success. By pieces, I mean signing Marvin, Flip, and Zaza. Bibby, for the price, perhaps not so much. JJ, Horf, Smoove, Marvin, Flip, Zaza need to be in Hawks uni's next year.

Of course its best the whole team stays together! Just don't forget that JJ will need a max or near max deal in 2010 and Horford will need one in 2011.

I would imagine Flip and ZaZa would want substantial raises.

My only point is that I would rather not over pay for Bibby and Marvin if it means we cannot afford to keep JJ and Horford.

[Dsinner]

Of course its best the whole team stays together! Just don't forget that JJ will need a max or near max deal in 2010 and Horford will need one in 2011.

I would imagine Flip and ZaZa would want substantial raises.

My only point is that I would rather not over pay for Bibby and Marvin if it means we cannot afford to keep JJ and Horford.

If Horf is wanting a max deal I'd let him walk. So you don't want to overpay for Bibby but will give Horf a max deal? I don't want to overpay for any player, Bibby or Horf, but right now I haven't seen anyone on this team (including JJ) that deserves a max deal. Especially Horf.

[buckeye242424]

If Horf is wanting a max deal I'd let him walk. So you don't want to overpay for Bibby but will give Horf a max deal? I don't want to overpay for any player, Bibby or Horf, but right now I haven't seen anyone on this team (including JJ) that deserves a max deal. Especially Horf.

I agree. Horf, as much as I love him, doesn't deserve a max deal, yet. He's a solid 13 point, 10 boards a game player. Does this warrant a max contract? Probably not. I don't see many teams offering up that kinda cash unless they see Horf being a 20/10 guy a night. Horf hasn't established a post game to score what a max contract PF should be expected to produce.

[plskeepbibby]

I dont think i disagreed with anyone of the posts about this team. I honestly think that the only person we dont have to have is Marveolus. Although I like marvin it is obvious that we are not reliant on him whatsoever and that mo evans in the line up makes us a hard team to beat anyway. We will see what happens this offseason and all these moves are key in the future success of this franchise. I cant imagine the ASG not liking all the butts in the seats. YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. We will see what they do.

[coachx]

I agree. Horf, as much as I love him, doesn't deserve a max deal, yet. He's a solid 13 point, 10 boards a game player. Does this warrant a max contract? Probably not. I don't see many teams offering up that kinda cash unless they see Horf being a 20/10 guy a night. Horf hasn't established a post game to score what a max contract PF should be expected to produce.

Horford is worth more then any player on a roster expcet for JJ right now in my opinion ! Who knows how much better he will be in 2 years ? Who else can d-up the dominant post scorers in the league with man defense on this roster ? That is an invaluable role. Add to it his great attitude and leadership ability.............dude is a keeper in my mind ! He will surely get more interest and offers then Smith got last season. It will not be a max deal but it will be over $10 mill for sure. Athletic centers who could easily average a double - double are at a premium in this league.

Bibby and Hoford are the only "natural leaders" on our team. One is 22 and the other is 30. When Horford is up for a new contract he will only be 24 while Bibby is 32.

I am not saying to just let Bibby walk by any means. I am simply saying that he is not worth over paying for if it means a 24 year old Horford, who would be just entering his prime, cannot be kept b/c we are over paying a 32 year old, one dimensional player, in the twighlight of their career.

If Bibby will take $8 mill a year keep him, by all means. I just don't think one dimensional players, over 30, are worth $10 mill per year. Especially when JJ and Horford have contract years coming up soon 2010 and 2011.

[coachx]

I agree. Horf, as much as I love him, doesn't deserve a max deal, yet. He's a solid 13 point, 10 boards a game player. Does this warrant a max contract? Probably not. I don't see many teams offering up that kinda cash unless they see Horf being a 20/10 guy a night. Horf hasn't established a post game to score what a max contract PF should be expected to produce.

You say he is PF.............I say he is better at center ! Plenty of 6'10'', and under, guys gave been better fits at center as to PF. Alonzo Mourning, Moses Malone, Antonio Davis, Ben Wallace, Charles Oakley later in his career, etc.

And you start who at center in Horford's place ? ZaZa.........we have seen that movie before and it ain't pretty.

Heck, didn't Diop just sign a $6 mill contract last off season. He is 20 mpg guy tops ! Centers get their money ! Alwayse have, alwayse will.

You can alwasye go pick up a bargain priced wing like Mo Evans, Flip Murray, Matt Barnes.......but you can never sign a "bargain center" unless Randolph Morris is your idea of an NBA center.

Edited March 31, 2009 by coachx

[Dsinner]

Horford is worth more then any player on a roster expcet for JJ right now in my opinion ! Who knows how much better he will be in 2 years ? Who else can d-up the dominant post scorers in the league with man defense on this roster ? That is an invaluable role. Add to it his great attitude and leadership ability.............dude is a keeper in my mind ! He will surely get more interest and offers then Smith got last season. It will not be a max deal but it will be over $10 mill for sure. Athletic centers who could easily average a double - double are at a premium in this league.

Bibby and Hoford are the only "natural leaders" on our team. One is 22 and the other is 30. When Horford is up for a new contract he will only be 24 while Bibby is 32.

I am not saying to just let Bibby walk by any means. I am simply saying that he is not worth over paying for if it means a 24 year old Horford, who would be just entering his prime, cannot be kept b/c we are over paying a 32 year old, one dimensional player, in the twighlight of their career.

If Bibby will take $8 mill a year keep him, by all means. I just don't think one dimensional players, over 30, are worth $10 mill per year. Especially when JJ and Horford have contract years coming up soon 2010 and 2011.

Absolutley. If it were between the two I'd rather have Horf as well. But no way has he convinced me he deserves anywhere near max money. He could get there, but he's not even close yet IMO. To be honest I really don't think Bibby is going to ask for the amount of money some on here think. I truly believe we can keep Bibby and retain all of our key guys in the future. I hope so anyway.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Dsinner

[Dsinner]

You say he is PF.............I say he is better at center ! Plenty of 6'10'', and under, guys gave been better fits at center as to PF. Alonzo Mourning, Moses Malone, Antonio Davis, Ben Wallace, Charles Oakley later in his career, etc.

And you start who at center in Horford's place ? ZaZa.........we have seen that movie before and it ain't pretty.

Heck, didn't Diop just sign a $6 mill contract last off season. He is 20 mpg guy tops ! Centers get their money ! Alwayse have, alwayse will.

You can alwasye go pick up a bargain priced wing like Mo Evans, Flip Murray, Matt Barnes.......but you can never sign a "bargain center" unless Randolph Morris is your idea of an NBA center.

^^^^ still does not warrant max contract. All of the guys you listed, other than Moses and Mourning (who were most certainly not the norm), didn't deserve max contracts either.

[coachx]

^^^^ still does not warrant max contract. All of the guys you listed, other than Moses and Mourning (who were most certainly not the norm), didn't deserve max contracts either.

A max contract for a player Horford's age is just about $15 mill right ?

A max contract for a player looking for his 3rd contract (JJ) is closer to $20 mill for the 1st year, I think.

I would assume Horford gets a deal starting between $10 to $12 mill easily. Thats all I'm saying.

Heck Bibby is making $15 mill this year ! If Bibby can get that then Horford may be getting short changed.

Do any of you honestly think Bibby is worth resigning at $10 mill per for 4 years ?

Look at what other centers are making like Illgalskus, B. Miller ($12 mill), Okefor at $12 mill , T. Chandler, J. O'Niel at $21 mill, Curry, Dalembert at $11.4 mill, Okur...................all are making over $10 mill per year. KG is making $24 mill this year ! Is Horford not worth half of that ? Kaman gor a 5 year $52 mill deal and cannot even stay healthy enough to play. Okefor just got a 6 year $72 mill deal at an even $12 mill per year. I see him being the closest thing to Horford's equal.

My opinion is worth no more then any of yours..............I just think you guys are short changing the historical evidence of what centers are apid in the NBA.

http://danielmillerbball.com/home.htm

Edited March 31, 2009 by coachx

[Dsinner]

A max contract for a player Horford's age is just about $15 mill right ?

A max contract for a player looking for his 3rd contract (JJ) is closer to $20 mill, I think.

I would assume Horford gets a deal starting between $10 to $12 mill easily. Thats all I'm saying.

Heck Bibby is making $15 mill this year ! If Bibby can get that then Horford may be getting short changed.

Do any of you honestly think Bibby is worth resigning at $10 mill per for 4 years ?

Look at what other centers are making like Illgalskus, B. Miller, Okefor, T. Chandler, Dalembert, Okur...................all are making over $10 mill per year.

My opinion is worth no more then any of yours..............I just think you guys are short changing the historical evidence of what centers are making.

Bibby is getting that because he had earned it with Sac. Horf hasn't earned anything yet. He hasn't even averaged a double/double yet. He will but not yet and unfortunatly contracts are given out on what you've earned not what you might. His production as of now can be replaced for much cheaper than max.

No I don't think Bibby is worth resigning for 10 mill nor do I think it will take that. I would pay him 8 for essentially 2 years. There is no way he's here for 4.

Big Z, Miller, Chandler, Dalembert and Okur are ALL overpayed. That doesn't mean I think Horf should be too.

I'm not shortchanging the evidence of what centers are making. Historically nearly all are overpayed. That does not mean I want my team to be financially strapped because another team will overpay for Horf. Most centers are overpayed because of their size. Unfortunatly for Al he is undersized at his position. The only way Al has a shot at a max deal is if he starts scoring close to 20 or grows 5 inches. I don't see either happening anytime soon. But like you said, neither of our opinions mean much or we'd be getting paid by the NBA so as good as I am at calling these things look for us to overpay Al.

Edited March 31, 2009 by Dsinner

[coachx]

No I don't think Bibby is worth resigning for 10 mill nor do I think it will take that. I would pay him 8 for essentially 2 years. There is no way he's here for 4.

We are closer to agreeing then I thought. I would go as far as a 4 year deal at $8 mill per for Bibby. Start the negotiations off at 2 years.........he will ask for 4 and maybe you reach a compromise at a 3 year deal. The thing with Bibby is that he is unrestricted. If we piss him off with slow negotiations he can quit taking our calls all together.

I just see Okefor as the closest thing to Horford.

Okefor just signed a 6 year $72 mill offer last season at a flat $12 mill per year. This seems like fair market value, not an over payment. That seems like what Horford should expect. Is that too high for your taste ? Would you let him walk for nothing if another team signed him to that exact deal or would you match it ?

Every one got all tied up on the word "max or near max." KG has a maxed out contract that is paying him $24 mill this season. That was NOT what I was refering too. The max a restricted free agent can make is a starting salary of $14.5 mill (I believe). That is too much, I agree. A "near max" for a RFA at around $12 mill sounds about right to me.

Edited March 31, 2009 by coachx

[Dsinner]

We are closer to agreeing then I thought. I would go as far as a 4 year deal at $8 mill per for Bibby. Start the negotiations off at 2 years.........he will ask for 4 and maybe you reach a compromise at a 3 year deal. The thing with Bibby is that he is unrestricted. If we piss him off with slow negotiations he can quit taking our calls all together.

I just see Okefor as the closest thing to Horford.

Okefor just signed a 6 year $72 mill offer last season at a flat $12 mill per year. This seems like fair market value, not an over payment. That seems like what Horford should expect. Is that too high for your taste ? Would you let him walk for nothing if another team signed him to that exact deal or would you match it ?

Every one got all tied up on the word "max or near max." KG has a maxed out contract that is paying him $24 mill this season. That was NOT what I was refering too. The max a restricted free agent can make is a starting salary of $14.5 mill (I believe). That is too much, I agree. A "near max" for a RFA at around $12 mill sounds about right to me.

Hmmm, not sure yet on Horf for 12. I like the kid and all but for some reason I get this "he'll never be more than a 13-10 guy" which really isn't bad I guess. I'd probably do 12 but I'd rather be closer to 10. And yes I was thinking typical "max" deal. So all in all I don't think we're disagreeing at all, hehe.

[Cwell]

resigning Bibby is the opposite of a must. We must NOT resign that one trick pony.

[Dsinner]

resigning Bibby is the opposite of a must. We must NOT resign that one trick pony.

Better than the 0 trick ponies that are currently on our roster don't ya think?

[Cwell]

Better than the 0 trick ponies that are currently on our roster don't ya think?

like who? everybody on the roster can bring something to the court. Of course when given the chance.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Cwell

[pound4pound]

I think we will know who is worth keeping after the playoffs. If we make a run deep into the second round then there is a good case to resign everyone and look to just tweak the roster. Mike Woodsen needs Mike Bibby. The go-Joe offense needs shooters - and if we are able to muscle our way out of the first round, it will be because Bibby got us there by draining threes. Seriously, Mike Bibby is the key to this team's success - when his is hot, we win, we he is not, we struggle.

That is more of an indictmnet on Woodsen than an endorsement for re-signing Bibby. I would much rather move the ball around, run more, or at least have a set play that requires something more than isolating Joe.