What would we lose by starting Flip over Bibby?

[Wurider05]

JJ and Bibby take too many jumpers. Hell how often have they both been hot or shot well in the same game. Flip is a scorer not a shooter. A scorer will find a way to get the ball into the hole. Bibby doesn't penetrate, doesn't slash, doesn't play defense. He just chucks shot after shot after shot. Truly I have never seen what he offers that was vastly superior to Tyrone Lue. He doesn't rack up assists. It has been said on here several times if his shot isn't falling he is useless. I mean that fact that he is a chucker is killing JJ as well. I mean most of Bibby's shots are wide open. Where do you think that other defender is? With JJ and Bibby doing nothing but taking jumpers the battle has been half won for the the other teams defense. Flip/Acie are slashers that is the kind of player we need playing with JJ not someone who does the samething he does. Hell Acie has shown that he can actually run an offense and distribute the ball. That is what we need. With Al, Smoove, Flip, Marvin, and Evans there is no need to constantly let the ball remain in the backcourt with JJ and Bibby. I mean only as a team will we succeed. JJ can't carry us we need to carry ourselves and if we win and he has a monster of a game than let that be the icing on the cake. There is no way Bibby shouldn't be average 8-10+ assists a game.

Bibby

2008-09 Statistics

PPG 15.0

RPG 3.5

APG 4.8

SPG 1.3

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.437

FT% 0.785

3P% 0.393

MPG 34.7

Flip

2008-09 Statistics

PPG 11.9

RPG 2.1

APG 1.9

SPG 1.1

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.456

FT% 0.744

3P% 0.375

MPG 24.0

I know Bibby had a good game last night but I would bet that Flip could score as much as he does with an increase in minutes. How they score their points is the main point I am trying to make as it will affect how the other team plays defense. I am not saying the FLip is better than Murray but that Murray's more athletic and agressive than Bibby. That is what we need to throw off other defenses. They all know that Bibby will just camp out in his spot and chuck jumpers.

[mrhonline]

Against the Sixers, I think it's essentially that Flip gets a lot of minutes.

Which should tell us something about what to do with Bibby at year's end, if you ask me...

[Wurider05]

Yeah dude I second that!!

[GameTime]

I pretty much agree with this whole post.

Edited April 4, 2009 by GameTime

[TheNorthCydeRises]

JJ and Bibby take too many jumpers. Hell how often have they both been hot or shot well in the same game. Flip is a scorer not a shooter. A scorer will find a way to get the ball into the hole. Bibby doesn't penetrate, doesn't slash, doesn't play defense. He just chucks shot after shot after shot. Truly I have never seen what he offers that was vastly superior to Tyrone Lue. He doesn't rack up assists. It has been said on here several times if his shot isn't falling he is useless. I mean that fact that he is a chucker is killing JJ as well. I mean most of Bibby's shots are wide open. Where do you think that other defender is? With JJ and Bibby doing nothing but taking jumpers the battle has been half won for the the other teams defense. Flip/Acie are slashers that is the kind of player we need playing with JJ not someone who does the samething he does. Hell Acie has shown that he can actually run an offense and distribute the ball. That is what we need. With Al, Smoove, Flip, Marvin, and Evans there is no need to constantly let the ball remain in the backcourt with JJ and Bibby. I mean only as a team will we succeed. JJ can't carry us we need to carry ourselves and if we win and he has a monster of a game than let that be the icing on the cake. There is no way Bibby shouldn't be average 8-10+ assists a game.

Bibby

2008-09 Statistics

PPG 15.0

RPG 3.5

APG 4.8

SPG 1.3

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.437

FT% 0.785

3P% 0.393

MPG 34.7

Flip

2008-09 Statistics

PPG 11.9

RPG 2.1

APG 1.9

SPG 1.1

BPG 0.2

FG% 0.456

FT% 0.744

3P% 0.375

MPG 24.0

I know Bibby had a good game last night but I would bet that Flip could score as much as he does with an increase in minutes. How they score their points is the main point I am trying to make as it will affect how the other team plays defense. I am not saying the FLip is better than Murray but that Murray's more athletic and agressive than Bibby. That is what we need to throw off other defenses. They all know that Bibby will just camp out in his spot and chuck jumpers.

I think the one major thing going against starting Flip over Bibby, is that it would actually take shots away from Flip and give us one less person who could pass the ball on the perimeter.

Bibby does take a lot of jumpers, but he also can find the open man as well. When teams have to worry about Bibby knocking down shots, it actually opens up the paint for Horford, Smoove, and Marvin . . and allows JJ to go one on one at times. Bibby has tossed quite a few alley-oops to Smoove and Horford for easy baskets this year. His assist totals would be higher, if JJ didn't handle the ball so much.

Off the bench, Flip at times is actually our #1 scoring option. Woody has given him the green light to take any shot he wants, almost like the role Barbosa has in Phoenix.

And that's probably a good guy to compare Flip to, to justify why he shouldn't start.

Even if we didn't re-sign Bibby, I think I'd still want Flip to come off the bench, and let Acie start. Because the biggest indictment against Flip, is his assist to turnover ratio, which is more comparable to Marvin's and Smoove's, than it is to Bibby's and Acie's.

Plus, you always have to wonder about the psyche of a guy who has started most of his career, suddenly coming off the bench. You see what it did to Iverson.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I will say this though ( and Woody has already done this ). If Bibby isn't on his game, and Flip is . . then leave Flip out on the floor. It may be more important to which one of them is finishing a game, than starting it. But I say keep Flip coming off the bench, because he has embraced that role.

[AtLaS]

Flip is a great player for our team, but he just can't play PG, let alone start at the position. He can also become a turnover machine when he has the ball too much. He has no PG skills and he can't pass at all. Bibby isn't a pass first PG but he's an ELITE PnR player and he can make some decent passes. He's much more suited for the position than Flip is.

[Wurider05]

Flip is a great player for our team, but he just can't play PG, let alone start at the position. He can also become a turnover machine when he has the ball too much. He has no PG skills and he can't pass at all. Bibby isn't a pass first PG but he's an ELITE PnR player and he can make some decent passes. He's much more suited for the position than Flip is.

I think that Bibby is also a 2 playing the 1. He looks for his shot first and/or JJ. He is no point!!

[DJlaysitup]

Even if we didn't re-sign Bibby, I think I'd still want Flip to come off the bench, and let Acie start. Because the biggest indictment against Flip, is his assist to turnover ratio, which is more comparable to Marvin's and Smoove's, than it is to Bibby's and Acie's.

Plus, you always have to wonder about the psyche of a guy who has started most of his career, suddenly coming off the bench. You see what it did to Iverson.

Since the "re-sign Bibby" part is mentioned, I figure you are also looking towards next year....pretty sure this season is going to play out the way it is (barring injuries - knock on wood). For next year I think we have to look hard at another option at the PG and likely one that is not currently on the roster. We will have Bibby's money and Speedy's money to work with - surely we can improve.

[HamHawk]

Since the "re-sign Bibby" part is mentioned, I figure you are also looking towards next year....pretty sure this season is going to play out the way it is (barring injuries - knock on wood). For next year I think we have to look hard at another option at the PG and likely one that is not currently on the roster. We will have Bibby's money and Speedy's money to work with - surely we can improve.

I keep hearing about bringing Bibby back at a cheaper rate, but I have to agree with you on this one. 20 million out there should be enough to get a baller of a starter and we could draft a backup for the cheap money. Yes we're going to end with a winning season this year, but why is the Hawks nation convinced this set will make us true contenders?? Go outside the organization for a PG and draft a defensive beast of a 5 in the first two rounds of the draft. THAT Hawks team stands a shot. . .