C-Webb rips Josh Smith for shooting jumpers

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Webber's "prime" coincided with probably the worst 5 or 6 year period the NBA has experienced in three decades. He wasnt exactly playing against a lot of legendary players. Sure he played at the same time Barkley was winding down his career. But to imply that they are basketball peers is far from accurate (Northcyde).

The worst 5 - 6 years? Come on now Bumpy. In Webber's best year, he averaged 27 ppg - 11 boards - and 4 assists ( 2000 - 01 ).

His competition were:

- the Spurs ( who had Tim Duncan, a guy who had already won a title . . and David Robinson, for defensive purposes )

- the Lakers ( when Shaq was still a dominant player - 29 ppg - 13 rebs, and who Webber would be matched up against at times )

- The Mavs ( when Dirk was really starting to come into his own - 22 ppg - 9 rebs )

- The Blazers ( who still had Rasheed Wallace, the good Rasheed Wallace - 19 ppg, 50% FG )

- The Jazz ( who had Malone, and was still a high percentage, high scoring PF - 23 ppg, 50% FG )

- The T-Wolves ( who had Garnett averaging 22 pts - 11 rebs and 5 asst )

- and the Suns ( who had Shawn Marion, when he was the main guy on that team - 17 ppg - 11 rebs )

So what you're trying to tell me, is that Webber faced a "watered down" league at the PF/C that consisted of:

- Duncan

- KG

- Rasheed Wallace

- Dirk

- The Matrix

- a grizzled vet in Malone

- and Shaq ( at times )

???

- even the Nuggets had Antonio McDyess ( who averaged 21 ppg and 12 rebs . . . damn, I forgot he was that good at one time )

The West was LOADED my friend. 7 teams that year won 50 games. 10 teams had a .500 or better record.

Yet Webber went on and had a 27ppg - 11 rebs and 4 asst season that year.

And he wasn't that good? Come on man.

If you want to say that he didn't come through in the clutch all the time . . fine. I'll give you that. But that dude, in his first 8 - 10 years in the league, was a DAMN GOOD BALLPLAYER. Better than Josh Smith or Al Horford could ever dream of.

http://databasebasketball.com/players/play...ilkid=WEBBECH01

Edited April 18, 2009 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I mean . . damn.

How do you watch something like that, and think he wasn't that good? Maybe not that clutch. But not that good? Some of those plays are unbelievable.

[dakast]

Very funny thread :laughing5:

Can't understand why know one has brought up the real reason Webber could never make it to the Finals.......

SHAQ and KOBE.....the Lakers were pretty dang good at that time folks.

[Peoriabird]

Very funny thread :laughing5:

Can't understand why know one has brought up the real reason Webber could never make it to the Finals.......

SHAQ and KOBE.....the Lakers were pretty dang good at that time folks.

The Doug Christy payoff also contributed that one year

[BusBoyIsBack]

It's hilarious people are trying to discredit Chris Webber's comments on Josh Smith by trying to hate on him as a basketball player.

And the hate on his skills as a basketball player are even more hilarious . Chris Webber playing in a water downed league, LMAO.

Webber was great and his comments about Smoove are spot on. It's maybe not the X-factor but Josh Smith does not need to chuck jump shots.

[HawksFan87]

that's great but he still doesn't matter 2 me..

[bumpyphish1]

The worst 5 - 6 years? Come on now Bumpy. In Webber's best year, he averaged 27 ppg - 11 boards - and 4 assists ( 2000 - 01 ).

His competition were:

- the Spurs ( who had Tim Duncan, a guy who had already won a title . . and David Robinson, for defensive purposes )

- the Lakers ( when Shaq was still a dominant player - 29 ppg - 13 rebs, and who Webber would be matched up against at times )

- The Mavs ( when Dirk was really starting to come into his own - 22 ppg - 9 rebs )

- The Blazers ( who still had Rasheed Wallace, the good Rasheed Wallace - 19 ppg, 50% FG )

- The Jazz ( who had Malone, and was still a high percentage, high scoring PF - 23 ppg, 50% FG )

- The T-Wolves ( who had Garnett averaging 22 pts - 11 rebs and 5 asst )

- and the Suns ( who had Shawn Marion, when he was the main guy on that team - 17 ppg - 11 rebs )

So what you're trying to tell me, is that Webber faced a "watered down" league at the PF/C that consisted of:

- Duncan

- KG

- Rasheed Wallace

- Dirk

- The Matrix

- a grizzled vet in Malone

- and Shaq ( at times )

???

- even the Nuggets had Antonio McDyess ( who averaged 21 ppg and 12 rebs . . . damn, I forgot he was that good at one time )

The West was LOADED my friend. 7 teams that year won 50 games. 10 teams had a .500 or better record.

Yet Webber went on and had a 27ppg - 11 rebs and 4 asst season that year.

And he wasn't that good? Come on man.

If you want to say that he didn't come through in the clutch all the time . . fine. I'll give you that. But that dude, in his first 8 - 10 years in the league, was a DAMN GOOD BALLPLAYER. Better than Josh Smith or Al Horford could ever dream of.

http://databasebasketball.com/players/play...ilkid=WEBBECH01

Lol. You lost me at "The Matrix." His numbers mean nothing. YOU could average a triple double in that offense. And 17 PPG is a toss in the bucket in that offense. Jamal Crawford averages frickin 20 + points. Jason Richardson averaged 17 this year for the Suns. And he is like the 50th best player in the league if that. And you, sir, are out of touch.

[bumpyphish1]

I mean . . damn.

How do you watch something like that, and think he wasn't that good? Maybe not that clutch. But not that good? Some of those plays are unbelievable.

Those are the best plays of his CAREER, Northcyde. His CAREER. Imagine what the top ten plays of Smoove's career would look like. And, highlight clips where they find your good plays speak NOTHING about the type of player you are. You are beginning to sound asinine.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Lol. You lost me at "The Matrix." His numbers mean nothing. YOU could average a triple double in that offense. And 17 PPG is a toss in the bucket in that offense. Jamal Crawford averages frickin 20 + points. Jason Richardson averaged 17 this year for the Suns. And he is like the 50th best player in the league if that. And you, sir, are out of touch.

(( sigh ))

Bumpy, will it kill you to do just a little research? Just a little bit?

2000-01 Phoenix Suns ( top 5 players )

- Marion: 17 ppg - 11 rebs

- Kidd: 17 ppg - 10 asst - 6 rebs

- Cliff Robinson: 16 ppg

- Tony Delk: 12 ppg

- Rodney Rodgers: 12 ppg

They had Penny Hardaway too, but he was hurt, and only played 4 games that season.

Oh . . and Phoenix that year averaged 94 ppg. And they only gave up 91 ppg.

See Bumpy, this wasn't the Mike D'Antoni run and gun squad that year. These were the Scott Skiles ( play some damn defense ) version of the Suns. And Shawn Marion was pretty much the all-around glue that held that team together.

I'm going to go ahead and stop, because I'm not even trying to "own" you. I'm just presenting the facts.

The only asinine thing, is you believing that Webber wasn't that good of a player. I guess you got the 2007 version of Webber in your head. The Webber that looked robotic and could barely move. Not the athletic Webber that used to destroy people on the basketball court.

I'll let you, Troy, and Ms. Smoove believe that Webber was some mediocre talent that is slightly below what Josh Smith is now.

The rest of Hawksquawk knows better though.

[bumpyphish1]

I never said Webber was below what Josh Smith is now.

But seriously, Northcyde, put more words in my mouth.

And Shawn Marion averaged 17.5 pts in 2006-07. Was D'Antoni coaching then????????????

Edited April 19, 2009 by bumpyphish1

[AHF]

Amare has already had as much playoff success as Webber and is how old, 24? Come on, AHF. You are smarter than that. I know you and respect you.

Amare has played with a multiple MVP winner, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, and Shaquille O'Neal, among others. I give a lot of the credit for the team's success to those guys. If I felt like Amare was a legit HOF player, then I would expect the Suns to have won a championship during his tenure. He might turn into such a player in the future, but I haven't seen the dedication to D from Amare that will be required for that to happen. If you project a certain growth path for Amare in the future you could speculatively credit him with some of that stuff, but I don't. I think of him as basically being at his prime right now largely because he has shown zero leadership and has not shown an interest in doing the dirty work for the team.

So I don't see any reason to think of Amare as being such a more impressive player than Webber - particularly with the real risk of future injury. I can see an argument being made that Amare is better but not by much and any statistical argument would have me worrying about inflation from the system perspective (see David Lee).

Anyway, I view Webber, Amare and Bosh as being on the same tier. Bosh and Amare are young enough to elevate themselves and are young enough that they could also take themselves out of the conversation with poorer play in the future.

[buckeye242424]

I think it's also worth mentioning that Webber's "prime" coincided with probably the worst 5 or 6 year period the NBA has experienced in three decades. He wasnt exactly playing against a lot of legendary players. Sure he played at the same time Barkley was winding down his career. But to imply that they are basketball peers is far from accurate (Northcyde).

It's not Webber's problem, or fault, that the competition was not up to par with him during his prime. No matter who he was playing against, he was still expected to produce at an all-star level, and he did. That's like saying Wilt is not HOF worthy because of the type of competition he played against. Ridiculous.

[AHF]

It's not Webber's problem, or fault, that the competition was not up to par with him during his prime. No matter who he was playing against, he was still expected to produce at an all-star level, and he did. That's like saying Wilt is not HOF worthy because of the type of competition he played against. Ridiculous.

Agree with your point but Wilt is a bad example, IMO. He had some excellent competition. Wilt was an absolute beast.

[Dsinner]

Color me less than blown away with Webber's incredible jump shot. He ranks slightly above Smooth this season but WAY below Flip Murray as a jump shooter.

Not the stuff of legend.

Come on AHF. You can't have a 6-11 F/C "good" barometer be measured against a 6'4 SG. Especially not his jumper. That's like saying Flip isn't a good rebounder because he doesn't get the same amount as Webber.

For a man his size, Webber had a "good" jump shot. For a SG he did not. Would you guys please stop saying it's "great" or "stuff of a legend".

[Dsinner]

Can't understand why know one has brought up the real reason Webber could never make it to the Finals.......

SHAQ and KOBE.....the Lakers were pretty dang good at that time folks.

Post # 45

[AHF]

Come on AHF. You can't have a 6-11 F/C "good" barometer be measured against a 6'4 SG. Especially not his jumper. That's like saying Flip isn't a good rebounder because he doesn't get the same amount as Webber.

For a man his size, Webber had a "good" jump shot. For a SG he did not. Would you guys please stop saying it's "great" or "stuff of a legend".

Fair enough. We'll all agree it is not a great jump shot and not use that measure to evaluate him. Having said that, it was criminal that a guy who could have been a great interior player spent so much time shooting jumpers in terms of looking at wasted potential.

On Webber's jump shot, it was decent for a big man but I don't even know that I can go to the level of good. Having a jump shot slightly better than Smoove' s this season and substantially worse than Al Horford's (40.8% efg%) this season doesn't impress me. Check it out - of all the seasons on 82 games, Horford surpassed every single season by Webber. Other mediocre offensive players like Drew Gooden (41.2% efg% for the Bulls/38.1% efg% for the Spurs- overall 40+% efg% on jumpers this year), Nene (43.8% efg%), Marc Gasol (40.3% efg%), and Udonis Haslem (42.8% efg%) just destroy Webber as a jump shooter based on their efficiency this season.

I am not even going to guys I consider to be genuine perimeter options for standard plays in your offense like Zydrunas, Yao, Murphy, Dirk, Rasheed, Scola, etc. who would embarrass Webber by way of comparison in terms of jump shooting.

Webber should never have viewed himself as a perimeter option other than shooting a minimum number of jumpers to keep the defense honest. He was too strong and skilled in the post to settle for those shots over and over, IMO.

This doesn't mean much more than I don't consider him to have been even a good jump shooter and do consider him to have been a flawed player mentally (which makes him perfectly qualified to comment on a player with a similarly unjustified infatuation with jump shots in Josh Smith). I still consider him overall to be in the same tier of player as Bosh and Amare to this point in their careers. When I think of guys who could have been absolute legends had they been mentally more disciplined with their games, though, Webber, Kemp and Derrick Coleman rank up there for me at the top of the list for 90's power forwards (and Coleman was a MUCH bigger waster of potential than Webber and even Kemp for that matter).

Edited April 20, 2009 by AHF