The blame for the last 2 games has to be placed on JJ

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm sorry folks. People can try to spin the last 2 games, and try to blame Woodson or anybody else. But those last 2 games are a direct reflection of the play of our captain.

JJ CANNOT play this poorly, and expect us to pull games out. He just can't.

I expect Smoove to disappear on the road, like he routinely does against good teams. His first half performance was pathetic. He had a decent 2nd half.

I expect Horford to look awkward as hell trying to assert himself as a scoring force. From that initial airball, he seemed to press the entire game, before settling down a little.

I expect Woody to not make major adjustments during the game, and maybe see if a guy like Solo, Mario, or Acie could spark a run.

But I don't expect JJ to play like a player who seems to be "scared" to take over a game. Wade is showing a SIGNIFICANT difference between he and JJ in this series. And that is the last thing JJ needs to overcome, in order to be a superstar . . . have a SUPERSTAR MENTALITY to completely take over a game. Nique needs to talk to his azz.

He does it at times, but he doesn't do it enough. The true superstars in this league will go down shooting, or defending, or rebounding, when their shot isn't falling.

This is defintely an issue, because ( and I HATE to admit this ) like Hotlanta said . . if he doesn't have that extra "something" to take his game to another level when we need it against GOOD TEAMS, then there is no way in the world we can give this guy a 5 year - 90 million deal . . like he's going to want. There's NO WAY we can do that.

I was actually on my way to Athens, when the game started, so I listened to most of the first half on 790 AM. Steve Holman ( I think that's the radio announcer of the Hawks ) kind of knew that this team might come out dead as hell. He was hyper as hell during the pre-game, stressing how important this game was. And he specifically called out JJ, even before the game started, stating that our "big dog needs to step up".

During that first quarter, I was pissed, and laughing at the same time, over his radio commentary.

- saying that the team in general looked scared to death

- saying that Horford looked like he'd never played in a big game before

- saying that JJ needs to get it going before we get ran out the gym

- saying in a condescending way that the Heat were "baiting" Smoove to take jumpshots ( that he'd probably miss )

He pretty much said that only Bibby, Flip, and Zaza ( when we made the run to get back into the game ), looked ready to play.

But it all begins and ends with JJ. He CANNOT play like he's just one of the guys. When those other guys aren't making shots, fug that "play the right way" ish. I want him to assert himself offensively, and steady the ship . . like most star players do.

In the playoffs, I want JJ to be taking 20+ shots a game. And when he drives, LOOK TO DRAW CONTACT, so that he can get to the line.

Fug that passive, dribble the ball to draw double teams, so you can pass the ball to Smoove or Horford for jumpshots ish

I don't know what is the most damning number statistically about him:

The 37% FG shooting?

The 5 - 11 FT shooting?

Or the fact that he's only averaging 1.7 assists in the past 3 games?

Whatever it is . . I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT ISH IN GAME 4. If we're going to lose, I want to lose by him doing all he possibly can, to help us win. But I also want him making some damn shots, or getting to the line. If the floater ain't working, go to the hole with the intention of getting to the line. Not the weak ish that gets blocked all the time, and you can't get a call because of the lack of contact.

Dwyane Wade is all over the damn place, trying to help his team win. I want to see that type of effort out of JJ. We're going to need it, if other people aren't making shots. if we lose, I want him doing exactly what Kobe did against Utah in Game 3. You KEEP SHOOTING and you play some damn defense.

It's been a long time since I've been really pizzed at the Hawks as a whole. But that game last night pizzed me the hell off.

SMH @ the Heat having 12 blocked shots, with 4 of the being by Wade. That's strictly off of effort folks. Coaching ain't got nothing to do with that ish.

Some of us might be mad at Sund, if we blow this series in 5 games. I could see Sund trading ANY of these players . . JJ and/or Smoove included, to try to get the right mix in here, to get us to the next level.

Edited April 27, 2009 by northcyde

[HAWKS1986]

I'm sorry folks. People can try to spin the last 2 games, and try to blame Woodson or anybody else. But those last 2 games are a direct reflection of the play of our captain.

JJ CANNOT play this poorly, and expect us to pull games out. He just can't.

I expect Smoove to disappear on the road, like he routinely does against good teams. His first half performance was pathetic. He had a decent 2nd half.

I expect Horford to look awkward as hell trying to assert himself as a scoring force. From that initial airball, he seemed to press the entire game, before settling down a little.

I expect Woody to not make major adjustments during the game, and maybe see if a guy like Solo, Mario, or Acie could spark a run.

But I don't expect JJ to play like a player who seems to be "scared" to take over a game. Wade is showing a SIGNIFICANT difference between he and JJ in this series. And that is the last thing JJ needs to overcome, in order to be a superstar . . . have a SUPERSTAR MENTALITY to completely take over a game. Nique needs to talk to his azz.

He does it at times, but he doesn't do it enough. The true superstars in this league will go down shooting, or defending, or rebounding, when their shot isn't falling.

This is defintely an issue, because ( and I HATE to admit this ) like Hotlanta said . . if he doesn't have that extra "something" to take his game to another level when we need it against GOOD TEAMS, then there is no way in the world we can give this guy a 5 year - 90 million deal . . like he's going to want. There's NO WAY we can do that.

I was actually on my way to Athens, when the game started, so I listened to most of the first half on 790 AM. Steve Holman ( I think that's the radio announcer of the Hawks ) kind of knew that this team might come out dead as hell. He was hyper as hell during the pre-game, stressing how important this game was. And he specifically called out JJ, even before the game started, stating that our "big dog needs to step up".

During that first quarter, I was pissed, and laughing at the same time, over his radio commentary.

- saying that the team in general looked scared to death

- saying that Horford looked like he'd never played in a big game before

- saying that JJ needs to get it going before we get ran out the gym

- saying in a condescending way that the Heat were "baiting" Smoove to take jumpshots ( that he'd probably miss )

He pretty much said that only Bibby, Flip, and Zaza ( when we made the run to get back into the game ), looked ready to play.

But it all begins and ends with JJ. He CANNOT play like he's just one of the guys. When those other guys aren't making shots, fug that "play the right way" ish. I want him to assert himself offensively, and steady the ship . . like most star players do.

In the playoffs, I want JJ to be taking 20+ shots a game. And when he drives, LOOK TO DRAW CONTACT, so that he can get to the line.

Fug that passive, dribble the ball to draw double teams, so you can pass the ball to Smoove or Horford for jumpshots ish

I don't know what is the most damning number statistically about him:

The 37% FG shooting?

The 5 - 11 FT shooting?

Or the fact that he's only averaging 1.7 assists in the past 3 games?

Whatever it is . . I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT ISH IN GAME 4. If we're going to lose, I want to lose by him doing all he possibly can, to help us win. But I also want him making some damn shots, or getting to the line. If the floater ain't working, go to the hole with the intention of getting to the line. Not the weak ish that gets blocked all the time, and you can't get a call because of the lack of contact.

Dwyane Wade is all over the damn place, trying to help his team win. I want to see that type of effort out of JJ. We're going to need it, if other people aren't making shots. if we lose, I want him doing exactly what Kobe did against Utah in Game 3. You KEEP SHOOTING and you play some damn defense.

It's been a long time since I've been really pizzed at the Hawks as a whole. But that game last night pizzed me the hell off.

SMH @ the Heat having 12 blocked shots, with 4 of the being by Wade. That's strictly off of effort folks. Coaching ain't got nothing to do with that ish.

Some of us might be mad at Sund, if we blow this series in 5 games. I could see Sund trading ANY of these players . . JJ and/or Smoove included, to try to get the right mix in here, to get us to the next level.

Exactly.

I am a JJ doubter, and after watching Derrick Rose, Ben Gordon and Paul Pierce step up...especially ON THE ROAD... there has to be some accountability placed squarely on the shoulders of Joe Johnson.

[TheTruth]

I couldnt agree much more with this. Here is the bottom line:

1) Joe is not a superstar, but he is forced to be the Hawks' superstar.

2) Joe is not a natural #1 scoring option; however, he is forced to embody that here.

3) Joe, aside from some good stretches and performances from time to time, is not a player who can put a team on his back like a Wade or Kobe can, yet many expect that out of him.

4) Joe, billed as our number one player from jump, should be much more of a vocal leader on the court--but he's not.

Look, I like Joe, but he is NOT untouchable. I still blame a lot of our malaise on Woodson, but Joe has been garbage too. Hell, he sleptwalked through much of the season (although his MPG surely didnt exactly help matters). Joe has to step it up because our other primary scoring options in Smoove, Bibby, and Marvin to some degree, have not been known to take over games on a CONSISTENT basis when Joe is off. Period.

Edited April 27, 2009 by TheTruth

[jhay610]

This is all true Northcyde.

If you listen to Joe's postgame comments, it's all 'we need to do this' and 'the guys just have to believe in themselves'. After game 1, everything Wade said was solely about Wade - how he needed to play better, how he needed to set the tone, how he would not accept his performance.

That's the difference, in a nutshell; and I too have been a big JJ supporter. That mindset filters down from your leader though, and it's why I dont think any of us are confident the Hawks can do what they have to do now and win a game in Miami. They are mentally not tough enough to steel themselves and take it.

I'm sure Joe and the guys will try really hard, but the great ones do not except failure.

Edited April 27, 2009 by jhay610

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I couldnt agree much more with this. Here is the bottom line:

1) Joe is not a superstar, but he is forced to be the Hawks' superstar.

2) Joe is not a natural #1 scoring option; however, he is forced to embody that here.

3) Joe, aside from some good stretches and performances from time to time, is not a player who can put a team on his back like a Wade or Kobe can, yet many expect that out of him.

4) Joe, billed as our number one player from jump, should be much more of a vocal leader on the court--but he's not.

Look, I like Joe, but he is NOT untouchable. I still blame a lot of our malaise on Woodson, but Joe has been garbage too. Hell, he sleptwalked through much of the season (although his MPG surely didnt exactly help matters). Joe has to step it up because our other primary scoring options in Smoove, Bibby, and Marvin to some degree, have not been known to take over games on a CONSISTENT basis when Joe is off. Period.

That's the thing though Truth. He actually DOES have a superstar-like game. He's done it for the last 4 years he's been here. It isn't too many people in the league that can check that dude when he's looking to score. He has an elite all-around game that only a few players in this league has.

But there is absolutely no excuse for him not to be averaging 20 ppg in these playoffs, even if he has to take 23 shots to get those 20 points.

It's just that he needs something to click in his head that this is HIS TEAM, and that this team lives and dies by the way HE PLAYS. All of that "we" stuff is all well and good. But LeBron, Kobe, and Wade always refers to their respective teammates as "my team". That's the difference. They're not going to wait for their teammates to step up, in order to get a victory. THEY'RE THE ONES that will "step up", and hope their teammates follow their lead.

It's funny, but I wish he'd play more like Flip sometimes . . . from a gunner, selfish type standpoint. When Flip gets going, or tries to get it going, he's not looking to pass at all. He's literally trying to take over the game. That's the mentality that JJ has to take on sometimes. He's the one guy on our team ( Flip being the other ) who can create his own shot, and get a decent look, even with a man on him.

I don't want to see another game out of him this series, where he's not taking at least 20 shots, and not attempting at least 4 FTs a game. It's almost unbelievable that he hasn't had neither a 20 point game nor a 6 assist game the entire playoffs. Sometimes, I think he defers to his teammates, because he doesn't want all of the criticizm heaped all on him.

But if we lose this series, and his statline looks like this . . .

14.7 ppg

2.1 asst

2.9 rebs

39% FG

59% FT ( 10 - 17 FT )

30% 3FG

. . . then ALL of the blame should be placed on JJ. And the national, and especially the local media, should tear right into that guy.

I mean fug . . he has 12 turnovers, compared to only 5 assists.

5 assists? When is the last time this dude had 5 total assists in any 3 game stretch he's played since he's been here? That's not coaching. That's just him playing like complete garbage. He is a MUCH, MUCH BETTER PLAYER than what he is showing.

I've been citing a stat about the Hawks and JJ for a few years now. When JJ scores and creates at least 30 - 35 points a game, the Hawks are usually OK, and are in good position to get a win. We're going to need that, maybe more, in order to secure the win tonight.

We'll see if the 23 point - 8 assist version of JJ shows up tonight. I'll even take the 29 point - 4 assist version.

But this 14 points - 2 assist version is not going to fly.

[hawkman]

I was talking to my brother about this the other day. JJ needs to step up in a major way. We brought him here to be the MAN and he's getting paid like the MAN. It's only reasonable to expect leadership through his play and through him getting on his teammates when they're not performing. 15 ppg is not acceptable from our most versatile scorer. He has way too much ability for that nonsense and he knows it.

[mrhonline]

So, I plan to address this again in the offseason with you all, but is anyone else dreading a long-term extension for JJ just a bit?

He's still under 30, but he's got the mileage of a player already in their 30's when you factor in his minutes.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So, I plan to address this again in the offseason with you all, but is anyone else dreading a long-term extension for JJ just a bit?

He's still under 30, but he's got the mileage of a player already in their 30's when you factor in his minutes.

JJ has played almost 24,000 minutes in his career, when you include regular season and playoffs.

In comparison:

- Wade: 17,000+

- Melo: 18,000+

- Jason Richardson: 21,000+

- LeBron: 21,000+

- Gasol: 22,000+

- Richard Jefferson: 23,000+

- Joe Johnson: almost 24,000

- Odom: 26,000+

- Jason Terry: 29,000+

- Bibby: 30,000+

- Pierce: 33,000+

- Dirk: 34,000+

- Ray Allen: 37,000+

- Duncan: 39,000+

- Kobe: 40,000+

- Iverson: 40,000+

- dominique: 40,000+

- magic johnson: 41,000+

- shaq: 47,000+

I think the fact that JJ didn't play much in his first 2 years, and hasn't had a long term injury to hamper him physically, is an indication that he could at least play at this level ( not the 2009 playoff level, but how he played in the regular season the past 4 years ), for at least another 5 years easily.

I'm not worried about his minutes. I'm more worried about if he has what it takes to keep us at a playoff level, and then turn his game up in the playoffs. That's the question with him.

If he plays 3,000 minutes for the next 5 years, plus have us in the playoffs, that will put him around the 40,000 minute mark that Kobe and Iverson are now at. I would assume though, that he's not going to continue to play 40+ minutes a night, for the next 5 years. So that number should be lower. Probably closer to 37,000 minutes.

So by the time he gets into the last year of his deal ( 6 years from now ), he'll either be trade bait as a declining player ( much like Bibby was ), or still be an effective scorer in a complimentary role ( ala Ray Allen )

Edited April 27, 2009 by northcyde