Johnson, Woodson disagree

[DrReality]

Johnson, Woodson disagree on plan “If you give the ball up, there’s no way you’re going to get the ball back.” JOE JOHNSON

Mark BradleyCaptain says he needs more shots; coach just wants to find open man.

By Sekou Smith

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Thursday, May 07, 2009

CLEVELAND —- One pass and shoot.

That seemed to be the Hawks’ offensive strategy in the second half of their Game 1 loss to Cleveland on Tuesday.

It was a strategy, albeit by default, that turned a competitive game into a rout in a matter of minutes.

Try it again in Game 2 tonight at Quicken Loans Arena, and the Hawks are laying the groundwork for another postseason blowout.

No one was more disappointed in the way the Hawks played offensively in Game 1 than Joe Johnson, who also happens to be the trigger man of the offense.

“It’s very difficult and frustrating at the same time,” Johnson said Wednesday before the Hawks hit the practice floor. “Because if you give the ball up, there’s no way you’re going to get the ball back. I played 40 minutes and took 10 shots. And we can’t play like that. But I don’t know if everybody knows that. And that’s why, if we don’t figure it out, this might be a short series.”

Johnson’s grim view of the Hawks’ Game 1 showing doesn’t jive with coach Mike Woodson’s analysis. He insists that when the ball works its way around the floor to the open man, things run smoothly.

That means Johnson has to pass out of traps and double-teams knowing that he’s not always going to see the ball again on a given possession, due mostly to the defensive scheme the Cavs have designed to make sure that he doesn’t.

“He’s not going to get it back,” Woodson said. “They are not going to let him get it back. I thought Joe did an excellent job of getting rid of the ball. It was what the next guy did with it that sometimes caused the breakdown. And that said, we made some good plays out of the double-teams.

“That’s why I don’t want these guys to get discouraged. Because sometimes that’s good offense.”

Still, the Hawks weren’t able to keep their offense humming long enough to stay with the Cavs. It had as much to do with their inability to spread the ball around as anything.

“We always play better when we play together on both ends of the floor,” Hawks point guard Mike Bibby said. “That’s the bottom line for us.”

That and getting both Johnson and Josh Smith going at the same time. The Hawks are 11-1 this year, regular season and playoffs included, when their two leading scorers have 20 or more points each in the same game.

“We’ve got to be able to attack this team with all five guys on the floor at any one time,” Mo Evans said. “They’re attacking us with all of their guys. They insert guys into the game and immediately run a set for him. They’re coming at us in all kinds of ways, so we can’t just concentrate on LeBron [James]. They’re out there laughing and joking and having fun. And that in itself is demoralizing, when you have a team full of guys just playing together and picking you apart.

“It doesn’t matter if it’s the first quarter or the fourth quarter, they constantly put pressure on you from all over the floor. And, to be honest, we need to copy that style a little bit. It has to be a team thing.”

[crimedog]

We did play better last game when Joe was acting like a decoy in the first half.

If we could find a way to get Joe shots in the flow of the offense without necessarilly having him iso iso iso it would be nice.

[NJHAWK]

Run pick and rolls with whoever big z is guarding setting the pick. He is slow and wont catch up on the switch. Of corse Lebron will just smack the arm of our guy going to the basket and no foul will be called.

[coachx]

JJ's problem is the L.J. is guarding him all night. Good luck with that.

We played a solid 1st half when our jump shots were actually falling and Smoove was running the break. Had we made our FT's in the 1st half it could have been a tied game. Then in the 3rd quarter we missed open jumper after open jumper. That is where Marvin normally takes it hard to the rack to get to the line. Marvin tried and fell on his wrist. Then he was quickly out of the game never to be seen again due to ineffectiveness from both the rust of not playing and the injury.

Without Marvin its is going to be real tough. Now either JJ or Smith have to use their energy on Lebron and prey the refs do not make them sit on the bench for touch fouls.

This team cannot change its stripes over night. Without Marvin and Horford at 100% we lose alot of our fast break offense. We really need Horford's legs at 100% so he can use his speed advantage ove Big Z and Ben Wallce. JackB1, and I were talking last night and he brought up that point....."When Horford's legs are not at 100% he just another average center out there.........he looses his advantage to beat other centers up and down the court for both easy buckets on offense and transition defense." I think we may be better of resting Horford tonight b/c that ankle may never get better if your banging with Ben Wallace and Big Z every other day. Then hope he is 90% for the games in Atlanta where we play really well and where Cleveland may seem human. (Cavs are 42 W- 2 L at home for the season.....that is not human)

Back to JJ.....he has to take it upon himself to be assertive and get to the line. The problem is that Lebron guards him most of the game and never gets a whistle blown against him. Woody also needs to attempt to run him off double and triple screens where he has the option of curling at the elbow or dropping back for a 3 depending on how the defense plays him. That is JJ's best chance of scoring vs. Lebron. 1 on 1 iso's vs/ Bron are a waist of time unless your just trying to get Bibby or Mo a jump shot off a double team. I also agree on JJ needing to be used in the post when Lebron is not on him. The problem is that when Lebron is on JJ, JJ cannot post up. (With Marvin hurt, it frees D. West up to guard Mo Evans since Mo is not a post up threat at all.) If Marvin was 100% it would totaly change the way Cleveland defends us. JJ would either have West to post up or Marvin would have West to post up. They could throw Wally and Sasha at them but they are both poor defenders. Either Marvin or JJ culd be Wally of the dribble or they coult both post up Sasha just as they would West.

We need Bibby and JJ to havbe one of those rare games where they are both hot from the perimeter and where Smith plays to his strengths. With Marvin and Horford hurting then need to play like allstars at the same time, in the same game. OK...I'm done rambling.

Edited May 7, 2009 by coachx

[coachx]

Run pick and rolls with whoever big z is guarding setting the pick. He is slow and wont catch up on the switch. Of corse Lebron will just smack the arm of our guy going to the basket and no foul will be called.

We need ZaZa or Horford to knock down jumpers for that to work....which neither has done as of late.

David Anderson would be pretty nice right about now. ZaZa is not skilled enough to out play bigger and stronger players who he cannot out muscel. Those are the type of guys DA can take out of the paint and nuetralize. Normally Horford just out works and out hustles the bigger guys but he can't do it on one leg.

Edited May 7, 2009 by coachx

[Wurider05]

JJ's problem is the L.J. is guarding him all night. Good luck with that.

We played a solid 1st half when our jump shots were actually falling and Smoove was running the break. Had we made our FT's in the 1st half it could have been a tied game. Then in the 3rd quarter we missed open jumper after open jumper. That is where Marvin normally takes it hard to the rack to get to the line. Marvin tried and fell on his wrist. Then he was quickly out of the game never to be seen again due to ineffectiveness from both the rust of not playing and the injury.

Without Marvin its is going to be real tough. Now either JJ or Smith have to use their energy on Lebron and prey the refs do not make them sit on the bench for touch fouls.

I actually thought that no one else noticed what exactly Marvin does. But we don't need him according to some on here. I mean we need to be at full strength to beat the better teams. Hell if we were at full strength with Miami I doubt it would have went 7 games. Marvin and sometimes Flip are the only ones who will not settle for jumpers all night. If Marvin would have been in the game driving to the basket drawing fouls then that would have slowed down their momentum in the 3rd quarter.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

i agree with JJ and Bibby. I said it in a thread I posted right after the game. I seen too many times where jj was double he would pass out of the double, the ball would move good but the pass would end up in flip, mo or bibby's hand. those same plays jj were open for a good shot. I didnt care if it was Bibby but there is no way Flip should be shooting 3s going 0-6 when JJ is open!

[coachx]

I actually thought that no one else noticed what exactly Marvin does. But we don't need him according to some on here. I mean we need to be at full strength to beat the better teams. Hell if we were at full strength with Miami I doubt it would have went 7 games. Marvin and sometimes Flip are the only ones who will not settle for jumpers all night. If Marvin would have been in the game driving to the basket drawing fouls then that would have slowed down their momentum in the 3rd quarter.

If Marvin was 100% it would totaly change the way Cleveland defends us. JJ would either have West to post up or Marvin would have West to post up. The Cavs could throw Wally and Sasha at them but they are both poor defenders too. Either Marvin or JJ could beat Wally off the dribble or they could both post up Sasha just as they would West.

JJ would not be matched up with James 1/2 as much with a healthy Marvin.

Edited May 7, 2009 by coachx

[mrhonline]

This frustration is a good sign, IMHO. It shows everyone in the organization that this team needs a few changes and more growth to get to that elite level.

[AHF]

Woodson is right that JJ needs to give up the ball when doubled. He is wrong to say JJ shouldn't expect to get it back if we don't exploit the double quickly, though. We should have pick and rolls, screens, and other plays that we can run to free him up to get the ball back when the defense resets. Of course, we don't.

[coachx]

This frustration is a good sign, IMHO. It shows everyone in the organization that this team needs a few changes and more growth to get to that elite level.

You know what Sund may say "

"Its hard to evaulate the 2nd round series with 2 starters injured vs. a Cavs team that is 100% healthy."

[DrReality]

The truth is this team has gone as far as it is going to go in its current status. It shows us our limitations both with players and coaches and now it will be up to Sund to make the changes. That remains to be seen.

[GameTime]

You know what Sund may say "

"Its hard to evaulate the 2nd round series with 2 starters injured vs. a Cavs team that is 100% healthy."

Or "Give me another season to evaluate this team"

[coachx]

The truth is this team has gone as far as it is going to go in its current status. It shows us our limitations both with players and coaches and now it will be up to Sund to make the changes. That remains to be seen.

The 99 Hawks team went as far as they could.....not sure that the 09 Hawks team has.

Our 5 starters were all over 30 in 98-99 (Mookie, Smitty, Corbin, Long, Deke) and had no bench depth. Who was our 6th man ? Chris Crawgford ? Smitty could no longer carry a team as the #1 option and Mookie, Corbin, and Long were all out of the league in just 2 short seasons. Mutombo allowed those old guys to play a slow paced game under the old NBA rules that favored physical play. We ran into a young, undersized Knicks team that swept us right out the playoffs. Bill Walton went on to say we were the worst 2nd round team in the history of the NBA playoffs after that sweep WHERE WE EVEN HAD THE HOMECOURT ADVANTAGE.

We only have 1 starter over 30 now in Bibby. I agree we may need a piece or two but I don't think we need to blow up the core.

Personally I would like to see everyone brought back with the addition of David Anderson and the 19th pick or a swap out of no more then 1 starter and 1 role player.

BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THERE IS NOT 1 TEAM IN THE LEAGUE WHO COULD COMPETE AGAINST THE CAVS WITHOUT THEIR BEST CENTER AND BEST SF.

Edited May 7, 2009 by coachx

[DrReality]

Agree with you. By saying they have gone as far as they can I mean they need some changes to the coaching, IE offensive coordinator? And to tweak the roster and bring in 1-2-3 guys that meet specific needs. But they have gone as far as they are going this year unless there is a miracle.

[coachx]

Agree with you. By saying they have gone as far as they can I mean they need some changes to the coaching, IE offensive coordinator? And to tweak the roster and bring in 1-2-3 guys that meet specific needs. But they have gone as far as they are going this year unless there is a miracle.

Can't argue with that.

There has to me a miracle to get past these Cavs.

[TheDude]

I'm sick of the fact that other teams can double-team Joe and be successful but we don't do the same on their stars because we are so afraid of letting the other teammates score.

A POINT IS A POINT NO MATTER WHO PUTS IT IN THE BASKET. YOU MIGHT AS WELL LET THE GUYS WITH THE LOWER PERCENTAGE ATTEMPT IT.

Joe gets doubled teamed and it takes the ball out of his hands and put it in others hands who are only used to doing so much. Why don't we double Lebron quicker and get it out of his hands forcing others to do something. Lebron getting 40 points is ridiculous and kills all argument against doubleteaming him...you don't have to do it all game but at least mix it in there throughout the game.

[Atlantaholic]

I'm sick of the fact that other teams can double-team Joe and be successful but we don't do the same on their stars because we are so afraid of letting the other teammates score.

A POINT IS A POINT NO MATTER WHO PUTS IT IN THE BASKET. YOU MIGHT AS WELL LET THE GUYS WITH THE LOWER PERCENTAGE ATTEMPT IT.

Joe gets doubled teamed and it takes the ball out of his hands and put it in others hands who are only used to doing so much. Why don't we double Lebron quicker and get it out of his hands forcing others to do something. Lebron getting 40 points is ridiculous and kills all argument against doubleteaming him...you don't have to do it all game but at least mix it in there throughout the game.

It's pretty basic to double team a player like Lebron, especially after he gets hot.

[TroyMcClure]

Woodson is right that JJ needs to give up the ball when doubled. He is wrong to say JJ shouldn't expect to get it back if we don't exploit the double quickly, though. We should have pick and rolls, screens, and other plays that we can run to free him up to get the ball back when the defense resets. Of course, we don't.

Joe could also, like, move his body after he passes. I've never seen someone so young, and so injury free, move so little without the ball. He doesn't jump, he doesn't dive, he doesn't cut. Does he even know what a "give and go" is?

[TroyMcClure]

I'm going to answer myself and say, no.