Six Degrees of Hawksquawk Separaton

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Maybe it's just me. Or just me and AHF . . and a select few others.

But as a fan, I can't ever envision ANY SCENARIO imagineable that I would want to see the Hawks lose ANY GAME . . . ESPECIALLY in the playoffs.

I know everybody is disappointed in how this is going to play out, although I do hold out hope that we pull off a miracle in Game 3, with some inspired play from our reserves. But let's keep some things in perspective.

(1) The 47 wins we won in the regular season, was NOT solely because of our play against the Eastern Conference. We were only 8 games above .500.

The truth is, that not only did 3 of the 4 BEST TEAMS IN THE NBA, played in the East ( Cavs, Celtics, Magic ) . . 6 of the 7 WORST TEAMS IN THE NBA, played in the West ( Kings, Clippers, Thunder, Warriors, T-Wolves, and Grizzlies )

Hawks record against the West: 17 - 13

Hawks record against the bottom 6 West teams: 9 - 3

Hawks record against the top 9 West teams: 8 - 10

So what is the argument? That the Hawks would've been a worst team in the West? Even though we EVERY West team, except Phoenix and San Antonio at least once, and would've continued to feast on those bottom 6 teams? Sorry folks. Can't use the "west is stronger" excuse.

(2) What we're going through right now, is usually the NATURAL PROGRESSION of a team trying to win the title. Unless some team makes some blockbuster trade, the scenario is almost always that you HAVE TO LOSE FIRST in the playoffs, before you can learn how to WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Look at Cleveland's progression since KING JAMES arrived.

( 03 - 04 ): 35 - 47 . . missed playoffs

( 04 - 05 ): 42- 40 . . . barely missed playoffs

( 05 - 06 ): 50 - 32 . . . lose in East semifinals

( 06 - 07 ): 50 - 32 . . . lose in NBA finals

( 07 - 08 ): 45 - 37 . . . lose in East semifinals

( 08 - 09 ): 66 - 16 . . . to be determined

That team had to go through a lot of trials and tribulations, before becoming the team that we see now. The 03 - 04 Cavs were essentially what the 07 - 08 Hawks were. A team that wasn't terrible, but just a little too inconsistent to get it done. They had to mix and match, and trade some people away who didn't quite work out ( notably Larry Hughes and Ricky Davis ), before they could turn the corner. The Mo Williams acquisition was probably the best thing they ever did for LeBron.

( 3 ) To get to elite level in this league, you need at least 2 all-star caliber players, and a 3rd player who can play great at times . . . and/or a supporting cast that ALWAYS shows up.

The Hawks have an all-star in JJ, although he's not playing like it in the playoffs . . and an almost all-star in Smith. Bibby would be that 3rd guy, who could play at a high level at any given time.

To get to the next level, a trade may indeed have to be made. But it has to be made for the right person, at the right position. The Hawks either need a PG that can penetrate and score + run the team . . and/or a low post player who can CONSISTENTLY score on the inside AND play defense. Adding any other type of player to this mix, probably won't improve us much, unless the current core players improve.

If we trade JJ or Smoove or Horford or Marvin ( and make no mistake folks, a trade will HAVE to involve one of those 4, to bring in the caliber of player that we need ), then so be it.

If we keep those 4, then we simply have to add the type of role players to the squad that will make the team even stronger. As a fan, you have to believe that we can add better players to the team.

- 2 draft picks

- a boatload of money if Bibby and Zaza isn't re-signed, to sign a free agent, or two

And the current young players on the roster ( Smith, Horford, Marvin, possibly Law ) should ALL BE IMPROVED going into next season.

(4) Getting to the 2nd round, no matter what happens the rest of the way, was HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENT for this team.

Unless something crazy happened, this current team was never going to reach the NBA Finals, or the Eastern Conference finals. So just getting past Round 1, was really the goal. That's not lowering expections. That's being realistic. Next year, if we add the right pieces and get around the 52 - 55 win mark, the bar should be raised . . to getting to the East finals, if not the NBA Finals.

But you and I know that it wasn't going to happen this year folks.

All I know is that I will make my trek to ATL around noon Saturday, and support MY HAWKS @ Philips at 8 pm est.

(5) Injuries. Our coach and some of the players say it's no excuse. But what would the Cavs look like, if they had to play without Big Z and say Varejao? Now you're looking at a Cleveland team forced to play aged vets like Ben Wallace and Joe Smith MAJOR minutes. If either of those two got into foul trouble, the Cavs would have to go very small, with possibly even having to play the KING at the 4.

Da hell injuries AREN'T a factor.

(6) I've said this before, and I'll say this again . . no matter WHO DOESN'T LIKE IT.

When you support your team, your support has to be UNCONDITIONAL. Get behind the Hawks, and support them . . NO MATTER WHAT. You sink or swim with your team. Even if you don't like a player . . even if you don't like the coach . . it's the TEAM that should be supported.

One thing about Hawksquawk though. If we do win later tonight, there will be jubilation on the board . . at least for one night.

[MaceCase]

:beer: I especially have to agree with you about the west, outside of LA or maybe the Nuggets now, not one team is a threat to win the championship. People say we wouldn't of made the playoffs had we been out west but fail to acknowledge that many of their teams padded their standings by taking on inferior teams.

[T21]

Right on!

... for most of the things that you have mentioned, there has to be a strong resolve and determination of the ownership to win and go that extra mile if necessary in order to get there...

P.S. I'm pleased with rebuilding and achievements so far, but as you said, now is the right time to fine tune our team and add one or two key pieces to have a true contender.

[Diesel]

I agree and am supportive. Hell, I'm hoping we demolish them tonight and Monday. The thing is that I think we all can see the failing of our team also. How bad our offense is and how bad our defense can be...

We speak of offensive coaches, new coaches, etc because we realize that if we're just happy to be here and if we think that we've done something great getting here, then we will never address the problem that is likely to keep us here.

i.e. we can be better than this!

If you told me that a team with an unorganized offense, immature players, and an undeveloped bench could do what we have done this season, I would have laughed... but we are here.

So that leaves this caveat: What happens if we develop a good offense, our bench, and we either mature or get better players? I would think sky would be the limit!

[Gray Mule]

All of us complain about our Hawks. We get down because they don't do better.

Yet, here comes Diesel. He says things that makes perfect sense. Not just one

small thing, but an entire list of things.

Here's a question for all you Hawk fans to ponder on. It's kinda like a dog chasing

his tail:

Why did the Hawks bench not improve a lot this season?

Was it because they weren't good enough for Woody to use them?

Or, because Woody wouldn't use them, they didn't improve?

Cause and effect. They werent good enough / They weren't used enough.

The answer will go a long way in determining the trade value of these players. And,

usually there is a "throw in" player or two to make a trade work, to balance out

everything.

I like to classify the entire NBA teams into three distinct catagories.

1- The elite teams. They are the ones who have a good / great chance to win it all.

2- The "Middle of the road" teams. Too good to be bad and too bad to be great.

3- The poor, also ran teams. Probably rebuilding. Lottery. Beset with injuries.

Payroll messed up. Orginization not on the ball.

Hawks were a oppr #3 a few seasons ago. Bottom of the heap type team. Whatever

could be wrong or go wrong, we were right there at the front of the line.

Now, this season we have climed to a position at the top of group #2. So much better

than when we started out with a 13 win season. We claimed #4 in the east. Good!

But, we were far away from the top three. We would like to think we were in the #1

group. Nope. A long way to go.

To get into the #1 group, several things must take place. Diesel has given us the list.

All of them important. It's taken us a while to climb to here. The bluepring has been

laid out for us. Let's hope someone is smart enough to follow it.

I'm a Hawks fan and I want to win every game we play.

GO HAWKS!!!

[mrhonline]

I have to say, I hate hearing discussions of "letting players go" in the offseason, whether it be Bibby, Childress, Marvin, etc.

The Hawks need MORE talent, not less. I agree with this:

To get to the next level, a trade may indeed have to be made. But it has to be made for the right person, at the right position. The Hawks either need a PG that can penetrate and score + run the team . . and/or a low post player who can CONSISTENTLY score on the inside AND play defense. Adding any other type of player to this mix, probably won't improve us much, unless the current core players improve.

If we trade JJ or Smoove or Horford or Marvin ( and make no mistake folks, a trade will HAVE to involve one of those 4, to bring in the caliber of player that we need ), then so be it.

[HamHawk]

I agree with most everything written so far in this post, especially Diesel's "we can be better than this!". I'd like to see two things happen:

1) We get a coach that can get the most out of this athletic team by running different offensive sets, motivating his players to play great, and developing our young talent so they aren't stapled to the bench.

2) Make that one (MAYBE 2) big moves to tweak (not change, tweak) our team. I like the comparison to what Cleveland has done.

We are being laughed at by the media for having no offense and sometimes no D. Imagine the players we have now being able to play at the height of their games in offensive sets designed for our TEAM's abilities. Imagine having that defensive PG or true C to put our physical make up over the top. We're on the verge of greatness,. . . . . if we only take advantage of it. That means tweaking and coaching.

[Gray Mule]

Northcyde:

Amen!

I find myself in agreement with you most of the time.

Everyone never agrees with everything another person

says. But, rational thinking usually runs close together.

:super:

[HAWKSFAN89]

Excellent post, I agree on every point made. I'll also be at the game tonight supporting my Hawks. Cheers to that. :beer:

[Diesel]

I agree with most everything written so far in this post, especially Diesel's "we can be better than this!". I'd like to see two things happen:

1) We get a coach that can get the most out of this athletic team by running different offensive sets, motivating his players to play great, and developing our young talent so they aren't stapled to the bench.

2) Make that one (MAYBE 2) big moves to tweak (not change, tweak) our team. I like the comparison to what Cleveland has done.

We are being laughed at by the media for having no offense and sometimes no D. Imagine the players we have now being able to play at the height of their games in offensive sets designed for our TEAM's abilities. Imagine having that defensive PG or true C to put our physical make up over the top. We're on the verge of greatness,. . . . . if we only take advantage of it. That means tweaking and coaching.

I think that there are players who will fit our needs out there, we just have to do what we can do. I agree with both you and greymule, there are coaching changes that are needed (i.e. new offensive coach that has autonomy over the offense) and there are player changes that are needed (i.e. star level players).

I wouldn't be so mad if we brought an Artest in. I wouldn't be so angry if we brought a Felton or Kidd in. I wouldn't be upset with the right trade for Dalembert (no core pieces). The key is that we must make moves realizing that we have one more year with Joe under contract. I would love Chillz back but I wouldn't be against trading CHillz for the right piece. Right now, too often, we're being overmatched when we shouldn't be. Again I say, if we can get as far as we have gotten with the players we have and the coaching we have, imagine what we can do with better?

[bird_dirt]

Northcyde:

Amen!

I find myself in agreement with you most of the time.

Everyone never agrees with everything another person

says. But, rational thinking usually runs close together.

:super:

northcyde writes volumes in his posts, but he always seems to be the strongest voice of reason on this board imo.

[cam1218]

Great post northcyde. It's nice to hear somebody using some logic.

[AtLaS]

Of course we aren't better than the Cavs and had significant injuries, but that doesn't mean we can't compete. We GAVE UP in game 2, period. After they got up by about 10 our players were walking back on defense and not trying. Joe missed a layup and just stood there and walked back on defense. It was embarrassing to watch.

That's the problem with our team on the road, they can't deal with adversity and just lay down at the slightest sense of it.

And, so much for Woodson's "great" defense. I know he's such a great defensive coach as everyone likes to say. All the offense has to do is get the man they want to guard their guy to set a ball screen, and bam, there's the match up. Solo's man set ball screens ALL game so Solo would be on an island defending a guard. And, he got destroyed every time. Did we make adjustments? Not surprisingly, no.