Views of the series

[CavalierObserver]

First off, I came on here to have polite, knowledgeable conversation- not to flame. So, as I will be respectful to you I expect you to do the same to me. If any of you mature posters would like to do the same, we have forums over at CavFanatic.com. We have fans that are well respected that are openly fans of other teams. Sometimes it's nice to hear about your team from a different perspective. Anyway, here is my opinion on the series.

I feel that many of your posts are simply trying to create excuses to spin this series. There is a discrepancy in fouls because of how the teams are playing, their personnel, and the size difference.

First, let's get to the ejection last night so that I can address several posts in one. Zaza was clearly in the restricted zone and the rules state that it's a blocking foul. I don't know what he said to get a second technical on the play but it must have been pretty bad. To say Zaza got tossed because of Stern's agenda is ludacris and completely ignores the fact that he looked like he was about to beat the referee.

And for those of you that keep saying you are losing because of the NBA's agenda. Did David Stern and his gang of LeBron-loving assistants blackmail Josh Smith so that he took 18-20 foot jumpers all game? How do you explain that? The Cavs were not even guarding him, the fans were booing him, yet he still took the shot. How smart is that? Josh Smith is tremendously athletic but his basketball IQ hasn't been anything to desire in this series.

The fouls are because the Cavaliers attack the basket more than Atlanta. LeBron can drive by anybody so he is going to get fouled. The bigs of Cleveland have forced Atlanta to the perimeter- and it's harder to draw fouls when you lack dribble penetration and are taking jumpers.

The best post I have seen (and will soon comment on) is from Diesel.. You guys are too small inside and have been rendered useless and forced to take jumpshots. Horford has to be moved to PF and you guys need to try and bring in a top line C. Good luck with Bosh but I can promise that Cleveland has the same ideas, so you will need to become more desirable by the end of 2010 season.

Bibby is okay but he's not a good defender at all. You guys have decent ball movement from Joe Johnson at the 2 but it doesn't seem to be what the team needs. You need someone that can penetrate off the dribble like AI or Kidd so that Johnson can stick with the perimeter and create easy buckets for Smith, Horford, and whoever you decide to put at C.

You guys have decent depth. Mo Evans has been a good player but he may be expendable with a healthy Marvin Williams. Williams is best coming off the bench with Smith at 3 and Johnson at 2. Pachulia is a tremendous energy player and a good offensive rebounder (similar to Varejao). You should keep Flip. I've read many posts about his lack of defense but it's hard to find a scorer like that to come off the bench.

It's important to remember that you are playing a great team. You're still an up and coming team but you have weaknesses that the Cavaliers are able to exploit. You just went up against a better team and they gave you playoff experience. In our early years we went up against a GREAT Detroit team and got whooped- but those whoopings were good for the young Cavaliers. You guys still need a legit C and a better fitting PG. I would be optimistic still if I were a hawk fan. You're young, explosive, and fun to watch. I don't know about your coach but I can tell many of you are unhappy with him.

[drzachary]

First off, I came on here to have polite, knowledgeable conversation- not to flame. So, as I will be respectful to you I expect you to do the same to me. If any of you mature posters would like to do the same, we have forums over at CavFanatic.com. We have fans that are well respected that are openly fans of other teams. Sometimes it's nice to hear about your team from a different perspective. Anyway, here is my opinion on the series.

I feel that many of your posts are simply trying to create excuses to spin this series. There is a discrepancy in fouls because of how the teams are playing, their personnel, and the size difference.

First, let's get to the ejection last night so that I can address several posts in one. Zaza was clearly in the restricted zone and the rules state that it's a blocking foul. I don't know what he said to get a second technical on the play but it must have been pretty bad. To say Zaza got tossed because of Stern's agenda is ludacris and completely ignores the fact that he looked like he was about to beat the referee.

And for those of you that keep saying you are losing because of the NBA's agenda. Did David Stern and his gang of LeBron-loving assistants blackmail Josh Smith so that he took 18-20 foot jumpers all game? How do you explain that? The Cavs were not even guarding him, the fans were booing him, yet he still took the shot. How smart is that? Josh Smith is tremendously athletic but his basketball IQ hasn't been anything to desire in this series.

The fouls are because the Cavaliers attack the basket more than Atlanta. LeBron can drive by anybody so he is going to get fouled. The bigs of Cleveland have forced Atlanta to the perimeter- and it's harder to draw fouls when you lack dribble penetration and are taking jumpers.

The best post I have seen (and will soon comment on) is from Diesel.. You guys are too small inside and have been rendered useless and forced to take jumpshots. Horford has to be moved to PF and you guys need to try and bring in a top line C. Good luck with Bosh but I can promise that Cleveland has the same ideas, so you will need to become more desirable by the end of 2010 season.

Bibby is okay but he's not a good defender at all. You guys have decent ball movement from Joe Johnson at the 2 but it doesn't seem to be what the team needs. You need someone that can penetrate off the dribble like AI or Kidd so that Johnson can stick with the perimeter and create easy buckets for Smith, Horford, and whoever you decide to put at C.

You guys have decent depth. Mo Evans has been a good player but he may be expendable with a healthy Marvin Williams. Williams is best coming off the bench with Smith at 3 and Johnson at 2. Pachulia is a tremendous energy player and a good offensive rebounder (similar to Varejao). You should keep Flip. I've read many posts about his lack of defense but it's hard to find a scorer like that to come off the bench.

It's important to remember that you are playing a great team. You're still an up and coming team but you have weaknesses that the Cavaliers are able to exploit. You just went up against a better team and they gave you playoff experience. In our early years we went up against a GREAT Detroit team and got whooped- but those whoopings were good for the young Cavaliers. You guys still need a legit C and a better fitting PG. I would be optimistic still if I were a hawk fan. You're young, explosive, and fun to watch. I don't know about your coach but I can tell many of you are unhappy with him.

Most of the criticism of how the games are officiated comes from what Lebron gets away with on defense. He gets to the line fairly in most cases.

[Cwell]

Most of the criticism of how the games are officiated comes from what Lebron gets away with on defense. He gets to the line fairly in most cases.

what was the point of quoting that novel of a post only to post one sentence?

and to the topic starter I agree completely. I hate how people on here do nothing but complain about refs and say everything is rigged and how every star player is a douchebag because they act human etc. etc. etc. it's just RETARDED.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You guys have decent depth. Mo Evans has been a good player but he may be expendable with a healthy Marvin Williams. Williams is best coming off the bench with Smith at 3 and Johnson at 2.

I agree with 90% of your post. It was an excellent analysis of our team, from an outsider's perspective.

But I have this quote highlighted for a reason. And I want to get your take on Smith at the 3. With how poorly he shoots the outside shot, why would you ( in particular ) play him at the 3, instead of having him play the 4, and tell him to strictly take people off the dribble to get his points?

I myself would rather see Smoove play like Shawn Kemp used to play. I think he has the ability to be a little more dynamic than Kemp, if he made the commitment to get tougher on the inside and play the 4 like a PF should.

But if we keep him on the outside, he'll revert into a Rasheed Wallace type player, that takes way more jumpers than he should be taking.

But I want you to convince me why you would play Smith at the 3, other than for allowing Horford to play the 4.

[CavalierObserver]

That's a good question north. But "other than for allowing Horford to play the 4." is a pretty big part of my reasoning.. If you are looking for more, then I will say a few.

I am a big NBA fan and get to watch a lot of games.. I don't think Smith has the size or rebounding skill to be an effective 4 in the playoffs. He will expose matchup problems against many teams but will end up being detrimental against the elites. Smith needs to be a slasher from the 3. Being undersized is the greatest problem here. Putting Smith at the 3 will hurt the team's rebounding and defense. Putting him at the 3 will limit perimeter scoring but will improve rebounding (both offensive and defensive) and should create some matchup problems and foul trouble for bigs if Smith is able to drive.

From what I have seen I feel that the Hawks are just overmatched in the paint. Smith at the 4 will only allow teams to continue to exploit that weakness.

[Cwell]

That's a good question north. But "other than for allowing Horford to play the 4." is a pretty big part of my reasoning.. If you are looking for more, then I will say a few.

I am a big NBA fan and get to watch a lot of games.. I don't think Smith has the size or rebounding skill to be an effective 4 in the playoffs. He will expose matchup problems against many teams but will end up being detrimental against the elites. Smith needs to be a slasher from the 3. Being undersized is the greatest problem here. Putting Smith at the 3 will hurt the team's rebounding and defense. Putting him at the 3 will limit perimeter scoring but will improve rebounding (both offensive and defensive) and should create some matchup problems and foul trouble for bigs if Smith is able to drive.

From what I have seen I feel that the Hawks are just overmatched in the paint. Smith at the 4 will only allow teams to continue to exploit that weakness.

everytime Horford has played the 4 he's looked horrible.

[thescout5]

everytime Horford has played the 4 he's looked horrible.

I have mentioned that the Hawks are outmanned down low in the post and have no chance against elite teams. Even with a healthy Horford,Marvin this team can't compete consistently to win vs better teams. Horford should be playing power forward and someone who can block shots in the middle and rebound would help the interior defense tremendously. The other probelm with the Hawks is at point guard. Bibby has his moments but I don't see the leadership from him and making other players better. This off season Jason Kidd and Andre Miller I believe are free agents it would do this team a world of good to get an experienced vet to show these players they must play team ball to win. There are way to many open jump shots being missed. Woody is supposed to be a defensive minded coach but we see players out of position why? What does the team do in pracitce? Do we have any players who want to be great? Lebron was born with great skills but I bet he practices and sleep basketball. You have to want to be great and put in the work.I don't see that with the Hawks players there used to getting by on the natural talent.There is no excuse to be missing wide open shots constantly.

BK wanted a long team the problem is were not long enough and have matchup prroblems against better teams. You could give Lebron his 40+ but if you play quality defense you can beat Cleveland. The Hawks lack the right coach and players to win against elite teams. Am I being hard on them I don't think so. If anything the team is to soft,lacks basketball IQ and big men to compete and vs better teams. I don't think this team can improve that much more to one day be a consistent elite team. Its one thing giving players time to develop its another if you have the right players to develop to be a champion. I don't see that with the Hawks thus Sund better realize this team is flawed and make changes with the coach and or players to build the team that can be a power house.

[DJlaysitup]

BK wanted a long team the problem is were not long enough and have matchup prroblems against better teams.

We should be giving Randolph Morris minutes. He has an excellent inside hook that VJ can't block and he's too quick for Z. He's also a good inside-out passer off double teams and could give us the size inside to start the fast breaks....It's a no-brainer.

Edited May 10, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[Plainview1981]

First off, I came on here to have polite, knowledgeable conversation- not to flame. So, as I will be respectful to you I expect you to do the same to me. If any of you mature posters would like to do the same, we have forums over at CavFanatic.com. We have fans that are well respected that are openly fans of other teams. Sometimes it's nice to hear about your team from a different perspective. Anyway, here is my opinion on the series.

I feel that many of your posts are simply trying to create excuses to spin this series. There is a discrepancy in fouls because of how the teams are playing, their personnel, and the size difference.

First, let's get to the ejection last night so that I can address several posts in one. Zaza was clearly in the restricted zone and the rules state that it's a blocking foul. I don't know what he said to get a second technical on the play but it must have been pretty bad. To say Zaza got tossed because of Stern's agenda is ludacris and completely ignores the fact that he looked like he was about to beat the referee.

And for those of you that keep saying you are losing because of the NBA's agenda. Did David Stern and his gang of LeBron-loving assistants blackmail Josh Smith so that he took 18-20 foot jumpers all game? How do you explain that? The Cavs were not even guarding him, the fans were booing him, yet he still took the shot. How smart is that? Josh Smith is tremendously athletic but his basketball IQ hasn't been anything to desire in this series.

The fouls are because the Cavaliers attack the basket more than Atlanta. LeBron can drive by anybody so he is going to get fouled. The bigs of Cleveland have forced Atlanta to the perimeter- and it's harder to draw fouls when you lack dribble penetration and are taking jumpers.

The best post I have seen (and will soon comment on) is from Diesel.. You guys are too small inside and have been rendered useless and forced to take jumpshots. Horford has to be moved to PF and you guys need to try and bring in a top line C. Good luck with Bosh but I can promise that Cleveland has the same ideas, so you will need to become more desirable by the end of 2010 season.

Bibby is okay but he's not a good defender at all. You guys have decent ball movement from Joe Johnson at the 2 but it doesn't seem to be what the team needs. You need someone that can penetrate off the dribble like AI or Kidd so that Johnson can stick with the perimeter and create easy buckets for Smith, Horford, and whoever you decide to put at C.

You guys have decent depth. Mo Evans has been a good player but he may be expendable with a healthy Marvin Williams. Williams is best coming off the bench with Smith at 3 and Johnson at 2. Pachulia is a tremendous energy player and a good offensive rebounder (similar to Varejao). You should keep Flip. I've read many posts about his lack of defense but it's hard to find a scorer like that to come off the bench.

It's important to remember that you are playing a great team. You're still an up and coming team but you have weaknesses that the Cavaliers are able to exploit. You just went up against a better team and they gave you playoff experience. In our early years we went up against a GREAT Detroit team and got whooped- but those whoopings were good for the young Cavaliers. You guys still need a legit C and a better fitting PG. I would be optimistic still if I were a hawk fan. You're young, explosive, and fun to watch. I don't know about your coach but I can tell many of you are unhappy with him.

Cleveland has been nearly gift wrapped the eastern conference crown by playing two laughable teams. Keep in mind that this team got blown out 3 times by a one player team. The Hawks have matched the 1994 Indiana Pacers as the only team to play and lose 10 playoff games in the same season by 10 points. Which basically proves just how bad of a team this really is. This team got to the playoffs because they're a mediocre team that beat out really crappy teams. it's not like this team beat out good teams for the 4th spot. In the west, the Hawks miss the playoffs. The Hawks have a roster full of Severely flawed players. Lots of tweeners and low basketball IQ on the roster. This team has NO CHANCE to become elite without trades to key players. I guess they're fun to watch if you like to watch basketball played bad. Because that's how they play.

-Turnovers

-Bad shots

-Inconsistent defense

-Mediocre shooting (regardless of what stats say.) The Hawks lack of good perimeter shooting as been exposed in the playoffs. That's why they're shooting and missing almost all of their 3's.

The Hawks will need to move 2 or 3 starters before they have any shot at being a top tier team. Until they do that, it will NOT happen. Just too many MAJORLY flawed players on the team.

I know it's not Cleveland's fault for who they get stuck with playing. But we'll see what happens in the finals. It's the only round that really matters anyway. I can't knock you guys because you're doing what you should be doing.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[MaceCase]

everytime Horford has played the 4 he's looked horrible.

I have to agree with you, there's too much unsubstantiated talk on this forum about Al needs to play the 4. Al is not some sort of dominant post player who's skill is negated because he's playing against bigger players, he doesn't have any clear advantage over 4s in fact I think he is at a bigger disadvantage. There was an article that was quoted on here about the difference of opinion between Woody and Sund about Al's future in the league and I have to say I agree with Sund. This league has eclipsed the age of the big man a good decade ago so I don't understand why there's such fervor to find one. There's not a single dominant traditional big in this league under the age of 30, they are dying out. Most 4s nowadays are perimeter orientated and most 5s are traditional 4s. Al is a banger, he is best suited to being inside banging with big men (pause) I can't even imagine him succeedong chasing the Diaws, Beasleys, and Lewis' around the 3 point line.

[ClipperNique]

I know it's not Cleveland's fault for who they get stuck with playing. But we'll see what happens in the finals. It's the only round that really matters anyway. I can't knock you guys because you're doing what you should be doing.

Ya know, I kinda want to agree with this, but I'm looking at this Cleveland team and I see a team that is clearly more focused than any other team besides Denver.

LeBron has a look about him that he will not be denied. The last player I have seen have this look was Shaq, during the Lakers first title of their 3 peat. Now, that doesn't translate to actually winning it all obviously, but the Cavs look really good. They have solid rebounding, great perimeter defense, decent shooters, and the best player in the league.

I don't see a team winning a game in Cleveland. They are just on a different level at home, and if they start out 2-0 in any series, that means a team has to beat then 4 out of 5 as the series progresses, and I just don't see it happening if they remain healthy of course.

[plskeepbibby]

DO NOT SIT HERE AND TELL ME BRON BRON DOESNT THROW HIS SHOULDER INTO SOMEONE EVERYTIME HE GETS THE CHANCE, AND THEN HE GETS THE CALL IN HIS FAVOR. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY LUDACRIS AND IGNORANT. 95% OF THE LEAGUE WILL GET AN OFFENSIVE FOUL FOR HALF THE CRAP HE GETS AWAY WITH.

[Plainview1981]

I have to agree with you, there's too much unsubstantiated talk on this forum about Al needs to play the 4. Al is not some sort of dominant post player who's skill is negated because he's playing against bigger players, he doesn't have any clear advantage over 4s in fact I think he is at a bigger disadvantage. There was an article that was quoted on here about the difference of opinion between Woody and Sund about Al's future in the league and I have to say I agree with Sund. This league has eclipsed the age of the big man a good decade ago so I don't understand why there's such fervor to find one. There's not a single dominant traditional big in this league under the age of 30, they are dying out. Most 4s nowadays are perimeter orientated and most 5s are traditional 4s. Al is a banger, he is best suited to being inside banging with big men (pause) I can't even imagine him succeedong chasing the Diaws, Beasleys, and Lewis' around the 3 point line.

I agree with this. I think the team needs a center... But if you can't land a bigger name guy (Most likely you can't) the team atleast needs a backup center that can take up space and play some defense inside.

[Bahamut]

Not to be a smartass, but:

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=ludicrous&gwp=13

This is all Marvin's fault.

[FrankWhite]

We're not losing this series because the league has an agenda. We're losing this series because the Cavs are much, much better than us. The fact that the league has an agenda is a different issue.