Should JJ expect a raise!

[Wurider05]

I am not sure how much money we can pay him but do you guys think that he is going to want 17-20 million a season to stay here. Do you guys think that he is worth it?

Edited May 16, 2009 by Wurider05

[HawksFan87]

nope , I mean unless he comes in next season and plays at a much higher level, he will not be making that much money again.. He wanted to be the man, now he needs to play like it..

[gsuteke]

Sheesh. I hadn't thought about his contract going up. At this point he's not worth the top tier money on a 2nd max contract, however here's the problem. We aren't getting someone else that is either in place of him.

Therefore we'll have to pay it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The reality of the situation is that unless he completely falls off the map next year, he's going to get a contract from somebody, for that amount of money. He made less than 15 million this year, and was still not in the top 25 of highest paid players.

People better realize that while he didn't necessarily have a good playoffs by any stretch of the imagination, he did come up HUGE in the 2 biggest games of the season. Game 5 and Game 7 of the Miami series.

JJ will easily get an 5 year . . 80 - 90 million deal from somebody. If he doesn't get it from us, we damn well better have a player, or a team that can make up for all that he brings to the table.

And keep this in mind. The superstar players ( Kobe, Wade, Lebron ) are ALL going to be making 20 million + from somebody.

- Bosh will get paid

- Michael Redd ( if he opts out ) will get paid

- Amare ( if he sucessfully comes back, and opts out ) will get paid

- Boozer ( if opts out ) will get paid THIS SUMMER

If the Hawks win 50 games, gets to at least the 2nd round, and if JJ is still the main reason for that success, he's going to get paid.

Imagine this scenario:

Miami goes all out to retain D-Wade. Let's say they sign him for 5 yrs - 110 million ( 22 mill a year )

Even if they do that, Miami could still potentially be a full 16 - 20 million under the cap in 2010, depending on how they structure the contracts.

While it would make more sense for them to go after a guy like Bosh, what if they went after JJ? Maybe tossed him a 5 yr - 90 million deal?

They decide to go small, and play:

PG - Chalmers

G - Wade

F - JJ

F - Beasley

C - random defensive stiff

Plus still have coming off the bench . .

Cook

James Jones

vet free agent ( probably another stiff C or PF for rebounding/defense )

1st rd pick ( '10 )

2nd ro pick ( '10 )

2nd rd pick ( '09 )

2nd rd pick ( '09 )

If the Hawks couldn't woo anybody to come to ATL, we're then banking on Smth, Horford, possibly Marvin, or whomever we retain off the current Hawk roster, to make up for all that JJ brought to this team.

Personally, I'm throwing him that 5 year - 90 million deal THIS YEAR, so that this isn't even an issue come 2010. I already know the guy can play. None of that show and prove contract games that we played with Smoove, Chill, and now this summer with Marvin.

In this NBA, JJ is EASILY worth 17 million. Ish, look at the contract Elton Brand got from the Sixers. And he's never won ANYTHING!!

[DrReality]

WTF?

[Joker]

2010 is a year away guys... Let's wait till December before we start talking about any contract extension for Joe unless it comes at a reasonable price.

[mrhonline]

This thread is depressing.

It's seems like yesterday we were thinking that $68M deal was overpaying...

2010 is a year away guys... Let's wait till December before we start talking about any contract extension for Joe unless it comes at a reasonable price.

Most extensions are completed in the summer. It's absolutely the time to start discussing this.

[Wurider05]

I think that JJ should be paid 10-12 million a season max. Remember he gets the numbers because he plays alot of minutes. I wonder what his stats would look like if he played normal minutes. I say let the 16 ppg in the playoffs for the last two years determine his pay. We overpaid Smoove and JJ should be making what Smoove is now.

[PureGreatness]

I think that JJ should be paid 10-12 million a season max. Remember he gets the numbers because he plays alot of minutes. I wonder what his stats would look like if he played normal minutes. I say let the 16 ppg in the playoffs for the last two years determine his pay. We overpaid Smoove and JJ should be making what Smoove is now.

we only paid(paying) 55 mill. Joe is worth 70 at best.

[benhillboy]

A raise? WTF. Really. WTF.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I tell ya. People have REAL short memories on this site. Without JJ, we're not a playoff team. Ish . . without JJ, we might not be a 35 win team. He's that important to this team on both offense and defense.

He's going to get paid according to how much a team THINKS he's worth to THEIR particular team. Not necessarily what he is worth, compared to other players.

Whether the fans believe that he isn't worth at least the money he's being paid right now, is irrevelent. There are going to be teams out there who will be in position to start JJ out with a 2010 - 11 contract that pays him at least 15 million . . and possibly 80 - 90 million over the course of a 5 year contract.

The only way he DOESN'T get big money, is if he plays the way he played during the playoffs, and the Hawks miss the playoffs altogether. If not, the Hawks are going to have to pony up the money, or risk losing him altogether.

Teams that would potentially give JJ a huge contract when 2010 comes:

- NY Knicks: People keep talking about them making a move for LeBron, but don't be surprised if D'Antoni is still the coach, that they go ALL OUT to get JJ. He kjonws the system . . he's EXCELLED in that system . . and he's the scoring/passing/defensive presence that a team like the Knicks need, to get back to playoff level. Nobody is talking about them, but I think they're the biggest threat to make a run at JJ next summer. This summer, I think they'll give David Lee a decent deal, but let Nate walk ( if he gets more than a MLE offer ). If they let Nate walk, they're definitely coming after a guy like JJ, if they can't get their paws on one of the major superstars.

- Detroit: 34 million coming off the books this summer with them pretty much cutting ties with Iverson and Wallace. Rip Hamilton is a UFA in the summer of 2010. While Maxiell will get a deal this summer, they still don't have to worry about paying Stuckey until 2011. LOL . . I personally think that the Pistons might go after Marvin this summer, with a 5/45 or a 6/60 deal with a team and player option. Even if they do that, they still may have enough money to go after JJ in 2010, if they don't decide to retain Hamilton.

- Minnesota: They have a nice future frontline in Jefferson and Love ( who they don't have to worry about giving big money to until 2012 ). They'll probably try to re-sign Foye to a modest deal in 2010, or try to give him an extension next year, so they'll know exactly what kind of money he'll be making. They won't retain Shelden, or Rodney Carney, or maybe not even Corey Brewer, by the time 2010 comes. They won't bring back bad contract guys like Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal ( will make a combined 16.5 mill next season ). So you're looking at a T-Wolves team with one major contract ( Jefferson ), and a bunch of guys either still on their rookie deal, or vet free agents who make less than 5 mill. They'll have plenty of money to make a play for JJ.

- Oklahoma City: Like Minnesota, they're going to be in position to throw a lot of money at one of those free agents in the market in 2010. Pretty much their entire squad is going to be made up of guys who are either in their rookie contract, or are vet guys who make little to no money. If they luck up, and get the #1 pick in the lottery ( to get Blake Griffin ), you could be looking at a team with Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, and Green ( as the 6th man ). Add a guy like JJ to that mix, and you have a pretty lethal offensive ballclub.

- Toronto: This will be dependent on if Bosh doesn't take his player option of 2010 - 11. If he opts out, they'll now have enough money to make a run at a guy. They will have to make a decision on Bargnani that summer, so they could even have MORE money to throw at a guy, if they balk on any big money deal offered for him. The Raptors got lucky, because they made a deal to possibly get them over the hump this year. Then somehow duped Miami into taking J-O'Neal, for Marion's contract . . which expires this summer. They may have to make a trade, in order to free up some money, but they could become a player in the JJ sweepstakes as well.

- Sacramento: I've always called JJ the 21st century version of Mitch Richmond, with better passing skills. Well the Kings could put themselves in position to get a player like that in 2010. They desperately need some kind of frontline, so they'll probably toss the bank at a player like Bosh, if he opts out. If not, JJ could be their target. Like Minnesota and OKC, they're going to be a team full of rookie contracts and/or modest mid-level deals going into 2010.

- Phoenix: LOL . . wouldn't that be some ish. Scenario: Suns decide not to retain O'Neal nor Nash, who are both aging rapidly. Amare opts out of his deal, to become that 3rd guy ( along with LeBron and Wade ) that teams may go all out to get. So now, you're looking at a squad that only has Jason Richardson left, as possibly a big time player. And even his contract expires in 2011. Would JJ go back to Phoenix? Ish . . if they started him out at 15 mill a year, with other teams wanting to pay him less than what he made in ATL . . he DEFINITELY would.

- New Jersey: To me, this is the ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE SCENARO for the Hawks. Devin will get his money ( probably a deal similar to Calderon's, or maybe a little better ). They could be stocked with a ton of rookie level contracts, with the only guys making big money are Vince and Devin. If the Jay-Z influence doesn't lure LeBron, Wade or Bosh to the Nets ( who should be in Brooklyn by then ), then JJ could be a definite target. They'll play JJ, Carter, and Harris together for two years, seeing if they can make a run with those as the Big 3. All a team like would need, is either a guy to bang the boards or a shot blocker, to make them very dangerous.

These are just the 8 teams that I think will make a major move for a guy like JJ. You guys are fooling yourselves, if you don't think this guy is going to get big money from somebody.

Like I said, if the Hawks believe that JJ can still get it done here, but only needs another player added to THIS MIX to get us to that elite level, they need to sign JJ to that extension this summer. If they balk on Marvin, they should DEFINITELY sign JJ this summer. If not, take your chances on the market, and see how much he is worth. They're not going to like the price they may have to pay for him, and other guys, once 2010 hits.

If Lebron, Wade AND Bosh opt out of their deals in 2010, it's going to set off a firestorm in this league like we've never seen. The superstar/star player turnover that will happen that summer, will be unbelievable.

[Eddielives]

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt he DOESN'T deserve a raise. JJ is very important to this team as constructed because he is the best player. But he is NOT a superstar and he is NOT A LEADER. He has the skills to be a superstar and if he would play with more passion he could be deserving of a raise. But JJ has to stop being so quiet and willing to just go along with whatever is happening on the court. All of those games where we have just been blown out, was JJ acting like a leader on the sidelines by talking to his coaches and teammates trying to fire them up? Nope. Did JJ play like a man possessed in these playoffs to try and lift this team out of the road curse. Nope. He's very very good but he will wind up his career as a role player to a superstar if he ever wants to win a championship. That is where he should look to make his mark. He just can't be the man period.

[Deeman]

I think JJ exposed himself during the playoffs that he can't carry a team. I really can't see a team paying him more than 14 mill a year. He can be a great 2nd option for a team. I mean JJ is good but he isn't a superstar he doesn't put fans in the seat.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So who do you get Hawksquawk? And how much do you pay him?

You guys better pay attention to the final 4 in the playoffs, and how much those guys make:

Lakers:

- Kobe: 21+ million

- Gasol: 15+ million

- Odom: 11+ million

( with Bynum making 12+ million next year, andhe hasn't done ish )

Nuggets:

- Melo: 14+ million

- K-Mart: 14+ million

- Billups: 11+ million

Cleveland:

- Lebron: 14+ million

- Big Ben: 14+ million

- Wally: 13 million

Boston:

- Garnett: almost 25 million

- Pierce: 18+ million

- Allen: 17+ million

Orlando:

- Lewis: 17+ million

- Howard: 13+ million

- Turkoglu: almost 7 million ( and he'll probably opt out in 2009, to get a contract in the 10 - 13 million range )

LOL . . I don't know what NBA you guys watch, but is the reality of this league.

Guys like Lewis, Pierce, Allen, Gasol, and K-Mart ( who all never won anything when they were "the man", got paid because they were the best player on the team at the time, and was a key piece to at least keep that team at playoff level ).

If we try to lowball JJ . . he's gone. Simple as that. No way we're retaining him with a Josh Smith-like deal. So who do you replace him with Hawksquawk?

And remember this . . . before JJ "wanted" to come here, the Hawks were NOTORIOUS for not being able to land big time free agents, even when we did have the cap room.

Very, very good players in this league get paid BIG BUCKS. Superstar players get even more.

So who do you get in 2010 Hawksquawk? What star or superstar do you get, that is going to get us to elite level, that will REALISTICALLY come here?

Don't be shy. Tell us some guy who we can legitimately get, that will get us to elite level. And how much are you willing to pay that guy?

[coachx]

5 years at $80 mill is the highest I would like to go.

There will be a ton of teams out their sharking the waters with money to burn in the 2010 off season.

It would really suck to lose him for nothing next year at only 29 years of age.

[coachx]

So who do you get Hawksquawk? And how much do you pay him?

You guys better pay attention to the final 4 in the playoffs, and how much those guys make:

Lakers:

- Kobe: 21+ million

- Gasol: 15+ million

- Odom: 11+ million

( with Bynum making 12+ million next year, andhe hasn't done ish )

Nuggets:

- Melo: 14+ million

- K-Mart: 14+ million

- Billups: 11+ million

Cleveland:

- Lebron: 14+ million

- Big Ben: 14+ million

- Wally: 13 million

Boston:

- Garnett: almost 25 million

- Pierce: 18+ million

- Allen: 17+ million

Orlando:

- Lewis: 17+ million

- Howard: 13+ million

- Turkoglu: almost 7 million ( and he'll probably opt out in 2009, to get a contract in the 10 - 13 million range )

LOL . . I don't know what NBA you guys watch, but is the reality of this league.

Guys like Lewis, Pierce, Allen, Gasol, and K-Mart ( who all never won anything when they were "the man", got paid because they were the best player on the team at the time, and was a key piece to at least keep that team at playoff level ).

If we try to lowball JJ . . he's gone. Simple as that. No way we're retaining him with a Josh Smith-like deal. So who do you replace him with Hawksquawk?

And remember this . . . before JJ "wanted" to come here, the Hawks were NOTORIOUS for not being able to land big time free agents, even when we did have the cap room.

Very, very good players in this league get paid BIG BUCKS. Superstar players get even more.

So who do you get in 2010 Hawksquawk? What star or superstar do you get, that is going to get us to elite level, that will REALISTICALLY come here?

Don't be shy. Tell us some guy who we can legitimately get, that will get us to elite level. And how much are you willing to pay that guy?

Good post !

We can't sign any near max guy in 2010, other then JJ, unless we go super cheap this off season. We simply will not have the money under the cap. Money under the luxury cap is totally different from money under the cap in terms of signing other team's free agents. We can only sign JJ, since he is our own UFA, b/c of the Bird rights.

Its basically JJ or bust !

Edited May 18, 2009 by coachx

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good post !

We can't sign any near max guy in 2010, other then JJ, unless we go super cheap this off season. We simply will not have the money under the cap. Money under the luxury cap is totally different from money under the cap in terms of signing other team's free agents. We can only sign JJ, since he is our own UFA, b/c of the Bird rights.

Its basically JJ or bust !

LOL . . I'm just saying coach. If people want to re-sign Flip . . or Bibby . . or Marvin . . or all 3, we're not going to have the money to do what people want to do. Those other teams I named, I think, will pretty much sell off the farm, in order to remake their team.

To be in position to even come close to give a free agent a top of the line deal, we'd have to renounce Bibby . . and Marvin . . and Zaza . . . and then JJ next year, to be in position to go after one of the big boys. If we fail to get him . . we're screwed.

So we basically have to prepare to match a 5/80 deal for JJ, or go ahead and get rid of him now, and get back some decent players. But the trend in this league is that you don't get to the elite level with decent players. You get to that level with star caliber players.

Maybe we could trade for Vince Carter? I'm sure Hawk fans would love that.

Trade JJ for Dalembert and Willie Green? Does that "wow" people?

We need a PG. Trade JJ for Baron Davis? Oh wait. He shot 37% FG last year.

To me, the best move the Hawks could make, is to go ahead and try to get a decent free agent this year. Would renouncing Marvin, in order to free up enough money to get an Andre Miller or an Allen Iverson, be the way to go? Then draft a SF to possibly replace Marvin?

Or maybe make a play for Lamar Odom?

LOL . . I mention Golden St. People better take a look at what happened to them and how they dealt with Baron. They played with Baron, not believing that he was worth as much as he thought he was. He then opts out. Then they tried to up the ante at the last minute, but Baron had his mind made up to leave for the Clips.

Speaking of the Clips, they basically did the same thing with Elton Brand . . and he walked, although Brand was kind of shady with that deal.

Chicago has done the same thing to Ben Gordon, and he'll probably walk too, if a team offers him a deal in the 12 - 13 million range.

These players will go where the money is. If the Hawks don't deal JJ by the trading deadline, they MUST re-sign him at just about all costs.

If a team will pay Rashard Lewis the money he got, you best believe that some team will easily pay JJ a contract like that. And the Hawks better be prepared for it.

[sturt]

north, while a lot of your points probably are legitimate, I think what last off-season told us is that Sund and his employers are going to be slow and deliberate at every turn so as to remove almost all possibility that they will over pay for anyone.

Accordingly, as I've begun to consider the spreadsheet, I've come to the conclusion that Sund is going to strongly consider moving either JJ or Marvin this off-season, and as silly as it may sound at first-glance, Marvin may win that duel due to his age and due to the amount of talent that JJ can bring in return.

Put it this way: if another team would offer back for JJ (1) a mid-career quality PG with a reasonable contract, (2) a credible low-post scorer or defender with a reasonable contract, and (3) a top 20 1st round pick, that would be a deal I think Sund would have to take.

[Anansi]

Joe isn't worth any more than he is making now. It would be in the best interest of our team if we didn't offer him much more than he is already making imo. We are talking about a 29 year old with a lot of mileage who seems to be regressing each year now. No way you pay him even more money for the next 5 years.

[DominiqueWilkins]

If Joe considers himself a max player he won't be playing here after next season. He'll also soon find out that his options are going to be very limited, because I doubt many teams would be willing to offer him that type of money, but I expect his agent to be smart enough to know that. Sund needs to be prepared for very difficult contract talks and also prepared to go a different direction if Joe's not willing to realize his actual value.