Should JJ expect a raise!

[gsuteke]

Joe is going to make max money boys. The question is where at his point.

I agree he isn't worth it IMO as he's a 2nd option on a great team. Having said that he amazes me at times with some of the shots he makes.

Somebody will pay the man. If the Hawks want to keep him they'll pay the equivalent.

I think what we're all not comfortable with is the reality that you need atleast 2, probably 3 max players on your roster to win a title right now.

Look at the Celtics last year. KG, Pierce, Allen. This year's Lakers (who probably won't even win it) Odum, Gasol, Bryant.

It's a harsh reality. Being frugal doesn't win ball games.

[DJlaysitup]

Joe is going to make max money boys. The question is where at his point.

I agree he isn't worth it IMO as he's a 2nd option on a great team. Having said that he amazes me at times with some of the shots he makes.

Somebody will pay the man. If the Hawks want to keep him they'll pay the equivalent.

I think what we're all not comfortable with is the reality that you need atleast 2, probably 3 max players on your roster to win a title right now.

Look at the Celtics last year. KG, Pierce, Allen. This year's Lakers (who probably won't even win it) Odum, Gasol, Bryant.

It's a harsh reality. Being frugal doesn't win ball games.

Well gsuteke, after reading the first sentence of your post I thought you were dead wrong - but after reading the rest of it I figure you are dead right.

Alas.

[MaceCase]

Joe is currently making less money than second/third tier stars as Michael Redd, Richard Jefferson, Kenyon Martin and Rashard Lewis. He is going to get a raise whether you think he should or not. He's not going to make Rashard Lewis money as any GM would be crazy to offer a contract like that to anyone not named Lebron or Wade but he will make a salary of 15mill that caps off at 17mill. We may not offer it but once 2010 comes and teams are left out in the cold that couldn't entice Lebron or Wade to leave their homes, 20-6-5 guys like Joe only look that much more enticing and you're going to have half the league with capspace bidding for his services.

[tbhawksfan]

JJ got a fair contract as a Hawk. He also did a decent job of earning the $. Now, given the options and realities of the team and cap structure, I maintain my trade JJ stance.

I agree that someone will want to pay him. I doubt that he gets the offer he's looking for from an elite team though. They can't pay him unless they give up a better or equal player, or unless they can get rid of a big bad contract.

Will JJ go to NY or MIA for the $ ? Will he try to get paid to play on another re-building team ? I don't wait to see. I agree that if it goes to the end of next season, that someone will get him and we'll be left with nada. SO trade him now.

Bring in a good PG and a decent C and let the maturation process continue with a more balanced team.

I also think that getting rid of JJ and Bibby will improve the TEAM environment. JJ and Smoove are don't play well together and JJ and Woodson have a little thing together. Smoove hates playing for Woodson. We all hate the JJ iso and think the teams talent is not being exploited. Trading JJ would put Woody on an island and give the team a new hierarchy. It's a risk that I take.

I'm not optimistic about the outlook of re-signing JJ at the price we want. Someone else will. Seems a smart move to try to solve some BIG issues by getting the most for him now. He is not going to get (much) better. The only thing that would help him is to become second fiddle again. That's not going to happen with the Hawks.

Trade him and let the young Hawks find their identity and soar into the next few years.

Keep the team as is and I bet we continue to see JJ decline and the Hawks stagnate.

[MaceCase]

I agree with you TBS, if we don't think he's worth what he his then now is the time to trade him. He's a two time allstar and NO you don't trade stars for stars. You trade them for young guys with potential most likely on their rookie deals, veteran expirings or otherwise, and draft picks. He could really help a team that has a closing contention window and doesn't have time to wait on their younger talent to develop. Off the top of my head a team like Washington makes sense, they could give up the 5th in this weak draft, Nick Young/Jarvaris Crittenton along with deshawn stevenson and the expiring of either Heywood or Thomas. Deals like that are the best we are going to get and could actually beneifit our team, people should drop any semblance of trying to trade Joe for a Bosh or whatnot and accept that this team can actually be successful with a deal like that. Otherwise you can't expect to just pay him less and expect him to continue to deliver what he's always done for us.

Edited May 28, 2009 by MaCeCase

[thefloydian]

The Hawks had better not give him a raise. I'm not sure what he's making now, but he's probably not worth it based on his play over the last year or two.

[NineOhTheRino]

JJ needs his butt kicked. I'm not sure if he's good enough to be called a 2nd-tier player.

[buckeye242424]

If Joe considers himself a max player he won't be playing here after next season. He'll also soon find out that his options are going to be very limited, because I doubt many teams would be willing to offer him that type of money, but I expect his agent to be smart enough to know that. Sund needs to be prepared for very difficult contract talks and also prepared to go a different direction if Joe's not willing to realize his actual value.

I would hope he's not thinking that way, or expecting that kind of money. I would hope that JJ, or his people, realize the commitment the Hawks made to him initially with that huge contract - and respect it. Joe also has to realize the progress that this group has made, and may have to sacrifice some money in order to keep the core of the group intact. No way we give him max money, nor should he ask for it.

Joe has one left year on his contract, if an extension doesn't arise this summer, we can expect another all star appearance. All fine and good, but in a world of what have you done for me lately...it would benefit the Hawks to lock him up a few more years after his poor showing vs. the Cavs.

[coachx]

He's a two time allstar

3 time allstar

Can't sale him short. After next year he will be a 4 time allstar.

[tbhawksfan]

I've been thinking about a deal like

Blatche / #5 / Young / E. Thomas

I'd love to go after a package like that and see what we get.

[MaceCase]

3 time allstar

Can't sale him short. After next year he will be a 4 time allstar.

Sorry it was early, all the more reason to stop all this he's not worth max money nonsense!

[NJHAWK]

I love to argue with Northcyde but on this topic he is dead right. JJ is going to get a huge deal avr. more than he makes now. The only way that doesnt happen is if he suffers a career threatening injury. Take JJ off our team and get ready to pin your hopes on ping pong balls.

[DominiqueWilkins]

I would hope he's not thinking that way, or expecting that kind of money. I would hope that JJ, or his people, realize the commitment the Hawks made to him initially with that huge contract - and respect it. Joe also has to realize the progress that this group has made, and may have to sacrifice some money in order to keep the core of the group intact. No way we give him max money, nor should he ask for it.

Joe has one left year on his contract, if an extension doesn't arise this summer, we can expect another all star appearance. All fine and good, but in a world of what have you done for me lately...it would benefit the Hawks to lock him up a few more years after his poor showing vs. the Cavs.

If I'm Joe, I need to see more progress with the organization. The team has so many free agents, some key, but some that need to be replaced with upgrades to get us past the second round. If Marvin is signed or matched he needs to take on a bigger role, or else we need to S&T him. Very few players can open Joe up on this team and Marvin is one of them, but Coach Woodson seems to fail to notice that. One of the biggest issues is not having any real size on the team and ZaZa is a free agent. Depending on his price I would like to see him back, but expect Sund to pursue options that make us stronger inside and more athletic.

Joe will possibly once again be an All-Star next season, but I won't give him the benefit of the doubt if he's the same ole "Joe" so it's time for him to take his game to another level. If he actually considers himself the leader of this team like he's referred to all the time he needs to show it. Joe won't get any all-star votes from me until I see a difference.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I love to argue with Northcyde but on this topic he is dead right. JJ is going to get a huge deal avr. more than he makes now. The only way that doesnt happen is if he suffers a career threatening injury. Take JJ off our team and get ready to pin your hopes on ping pong balls.

LOL.

It's like some in this fan base acts like JJ wasn't the BIGGEST REASON for where we are right now. Like we've been in the playoffs for 5 straight years, and all of a sudden, have become stagnant and can't go no further.

Yeah, JJ had a lackluster playoff stint this year. But he's STILL the main reason why we won 47 games this year, regardless of that. And he's part of the reason why we got past Miami in Round 1.

NJ . . what will happen in 2010, is a domino effect. That effect will definitely take place if either Wade leaves Miami or if LeBron leaves Cleveland. If either or both of those things happen, you're going to see a straight up bidding war to replace those players in those respective cities, with lesser star quality players. You may not see ANY MOVEMENT from teams, until either LeBron and/or Wade's fate is determined. Once one of them moves, all hell will break loose.

Here's the facts folks. JJ will be one of the top 5 - 7 guys sought after in 2010. If you think otherwise, you better go look at who is on that potential list that summer. After LeBron, Wade, and possibly Bosh and Amare ( if they opt out ), JJ will be the guy people will go after.

If Wade leaves Miami, do people NOT THINK that the Heat will go all out to replace Wade with a guy like JJ? The same goes for Cleveland, if they lost LeBron. You lose a major star like that on a team, you HAVE to replace him with another star caliber player. Even if that player isn't nearly as talented as the star you lost.

JJ may want to win . . . but will he turn down a contract that is 15 - 20 million more than what a "contender" type team will give him? If Minnesota has the money to give him a 5 yr - 95 mill contract, do people think that JJ will turn that down, to play for 5 yr - 75 million, to stay in Atlanta?

REMEMBER FOLKS . . WE WERE THE ONE TO "OVERPAY" FOR JJ BACK IN 2005 . . AND GIVE HIM A 5/70 DEAL . . AND PAY HIM ALL OF THAT MONEY UPFRONT . . JUST TO GET HIM TO ATLANTA . . WHEN HE WAS VIEWED AS MERELY A 3RD OR 4TH OPTION PLAYER!!!!

Seriously . . . if a team like Chicago doesn't retain Gordon, and want to take their chances in 2010 with luring a guy like Wade ( but doesn't get him ), do people not think for one minute that they'd throw all kinds of cash at JJ, to pair him up with Derrick Rose?

Lineup:

G - Rose

G - JJ

F - Deng

F - Noah

C - Miller ( at a reduced rate )

Do Hawk fans REALLY want to go up against a squad like that after 2010? What? Is Flip or Mo Evans gonna get the assignment to try to stop JJ?

Or worse, have Jay-Z and Jersey try to take a 1-year shot at a title, and use JJ to replace Vince Carter after the 2010 - 11 season.

G - Devin Harris

G - JJ

F - Vince

F - Dejuan Blair ( projected pick on draftexpress.com )

C - Lopez ( who had a good year last year )

And people can say what they want about Vince Carter. That guy is STILL a very good player in this league and you still have to guard him like he's a star player. He may be like JJ, and on that 2nd tier . . and maybe he's not the guy who can lead a team by himself . . but he's still VERY GOOD. So now you put two players like that on the same squad . . plus a young PG like Harris, that people have trouble guarding?

Like I said in my extensive breakdown of this in another thread. The is the absolute NIGHTMARE SCENARIO to me. To have a team like NJ get JJ, and IMMEADIATELY vault over us, because they'd have potentially 3 All-Star caliber players on the squad, plus a decent frontline.

You think a Nets team like that, wouldn't be better than ANYTHING the Hawks could put together in 2010, outside of adding Wade, LeBron, or Bosh?

That's why I say . . go ahead and offer JJ a 5 yr - 90 million deal, to guarantee that we'll have at least an All-Star caliber player here for the next 5 years. If people don't think he's worth it, they better have a FULLPROOF PLAN to bring in the type of guys that will at least keep us at the level we are right now.

[atlien]

Good points North.

We lose JJ and we're back to rebuilding.

The trick is to get talent AROUND JJ, not get rid of him.

One other aspect that Ive been thinking of more and more: I honestly fear that JJ will jet to try to join Lebron or Wade in 2010. Think about it, JJ is the PERFECT complementary player next to a superstar like that (and I believe Lebron and Wade know as much, especially Lebron).

Team up Lebron and JJ, and the rest of the NBA is in real trouble.

[sturt]

The trick is to get talent AROUND JJ, not get rid of him.

Or, acquire a player at approximately his same level who has a longer term contract so that you lock-in the number for a few years.

JJ is important, but he's not indispensible.

I take issue with the idea that you can acquire other parts b/c championship teams always have a guy at JJ's level... in fact, usually, one above his level, and one even with him or just below.... and if you acquire other parts, you're gambling that those guys are going to develop into top-tier players at a time when the team is on the cusp of developing into something substantial. Very few GMs have a track record of being right about young players more than they're wrong, so that's not really a chance I'm as inclined to take w/ Sund at this point.