What's with all the trade Smoove discussions

[00Blink]

What is with all this trade Smoove? He was the most consistent Hawk in both playoff series. the kid is a rare talent and has a ceiling as good as anyone in the NBA not named Lebron or Kobe...but at the PF position. People are talking trade him for picks to pick up Thabeet who at 7'3 couldn't even shine on a 6'7-6'8 Blair or for a Rick Rubio...yeah, get real. Thabeet is not gonna even be better than Oden. Rubio is not gonna be an all-star pg. I think ANY and EVERY GM would give up the draft pick for Smoove. Blake, might turn out to be good might not...look at what Shellhead did in college, at Boozer, at Brand, they are above average players in the NBA today...not the same college dominance presence they once were. Smoove can be dominate in the NBA now!!

[ATLJA316]

Smoove can be dominate in the NBA now!!

Why isn't he?

Edited May 21, 2009 by ATLJA316

[HawksFan87]

Why isn't he?

Why isn't Joe or AL dominating the league???

But to answer the posters questions.. The Hawks have some of if not the worst fans in the league... Smoove was clearly the most consistent player for us in the playoffs.. Yes he has his faults just like everyone else on the team does. But he continues to get better every year, and he works hard..

[exodus]

What is with all this trade Smoove? He was the most consistent Hawk in both playoff series. the kid is a rare talent and has a ceiling as good as anyone in the NBA not named Lebron or Kobe...but at the PF position.

No effin way. There are plenty of guys in the NBA right now who are better than Smith will ever be.

Smith's flaws are glaring and he has been in the league 5 years. At this point i would think he should realize he isn't Rashard or Kidd. I have always liked Smith but he can definitely piss me off like nobody else.

The bottom line is that Smith is the only guy on the roster other than JJ who can bring back an All-Star in a trade. This team needs another legit star and trading Smith could probably bring one in. Nobody is going to trade an All-Star for Marvin or Horford.

[HawksFan87]

please!!!, The Hawks are not trading Smoove or Joe .. You don't trade away your best players you build around them...

[AHF]

please!!!, The Hawks are not trading Smoove or Joe .. You don't trade away your best players you build around them...

Unless you can upgrade.

I am not at all eager to trade Josh Smith but I would trade our entire team for the right people. No one is untouchable.

[PureGreatness]

me personally, i would trade Joe since(to me and Hotlanta1981) is declining each year. i dont see joe shooting better or be any more efficient than if we bring amare or bosh here for smoove unless we have a a totally different offense.

So us on Hawksquawk bring up smoove because he is our 2nd best player(based on stats) but our most valuable player. so in all likely hood smoove will be the one we have to give up for amare or bosh.

If i owned the hawks i would trade joe for JR Smith, gordan or some young SG (might as well get a scoring talent on the up the a declining scorer on the down)+filler and a draft pick for a big man(mainly for defense). with our original draft we should get a point guard this year, resign marvin and flip.

but outside of the point guard pick up we might not see any of those things happen.

Edited May 21, 2009 by hoodstar

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Even I'm for trading JJ, if you can upgrade at the position.

Smoove did what I wanted him to do though this year. And that was dramatically improve his FG%. Although he and the whole team ( minus Bibby ) shot bad during the playoffs, I do give Smith credit for shooting 49% FG during the season. As a PF, that's where he needs to be.

If he leaves the jumpers alone, he could raise that FG% into the low - mid 50%. IF he's willing to do that, he might have a shot at a few all-star games. If not, he's going to be a Kirilenko-type player that will continue to frustrate the fan base.

Having said that, if you were to tell me that we could add Carlos Boozer, in place of Smoove . . you do that in a heartbeat.

You don't do it for a scrub PF and the chance to get Thabeet though. Thabeet isn't going to be that good at all.

[Sothron]

The "Smoove has potential" bus ran out of gas after his third year in the league. You don't get to be the "athletic freak whose so RAW and one day he's gonna BALL" guy on a roster when you are a five year veteran. Sorry. Smoove has already reached his peak, he just needs to be more consistent with his offensive effort. There is in fact a ceiling and he has reached it.

That being said I am not in favor of trading him just to trade him. There aren't that many players I'd agree to trade him for.

[Eddielives]

The "Smoove has potential" bus ran out of gas after his third year in the league. You don't get to be the "athletic freak whose so RAW and one day he's gonna BALL" guy on a roster when you are a five year veteran. Sorry. Smoove has already reached his peak, he just needs to be more consistent with his offensive effort. There is in fact a ceiling and he has reached it.

That being said I am not in favor of trading him just to trade him. There aren't that many players I'd agree to trade him for.

Mann I wish I could put my thoughts into words that well. You're exactly right. Right now Smoove is perfect for trading to get the max value in return. The fact is he may get a little better but we've seen what we're going to get from him, more or less. I'm more than willing to trade him for another legit player with a consistent and defined skillset to help this team get better. Enough with the he's gonna be dominant one day, just wait and see. He will always be a good player for whomever he plays but he's not a baby anymore, not from an NBA experience standpoint. Face it, you're either huggin' his nuts for whatever reason or you're rational and realize he's shown what's he's all about.

[MaceCase]

Isn't the talent and skill peak and prime for an NBA player between 28 and 32? How old is Smoove again? Well I guess we'll never see his cuz he wont be here, thanks ya'll.

[PureGreatness]

when a player reach his prime it depends what type of coaching he has had in his career. a player doesnt reach his prime until his late 20s (around 26-33 usually). only about 10 players in the last years has reached his prime from the gate.

I put it like this. Smoove is 23. lets say when he starts the season he would 26, so in his 8th season he would be in his prime.

So far he is a 14/7/and 2 bls a game in his career. lets say he averages 16 and 7 on year and 17 and 8 the next.

Lets say in his 8th season his prime begins. lets use common sense future predictions

011/012 20 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 26)...ALL STAR

012/013 23 pts 10 rebounds 3 blocks(age 27)...ALL STAR

013/014 21 pts 10 rebounds 2 blocks(age 28)...ALL STAR

014/015 22 pts 8 rebounds 3 blocks(age 29)...ALL STAR

015/016 20 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 30)...ALL STAR

016/017 21 pts 10 rebounds 2 blocks(age 31)...ALL STAR

017/018 19 pts 8 rebounds 2 blocks(age 32)...ALL STAR

018/019 19 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 33)...ALL STAR

lets stop there. that 15 seasons. he isnt a big scorer but your typical 20 points a game guy. but he scores and get his typical 8-10 rebounds. you look at the stats and in his first 15 seasons he has a career average of 17.8 and 8.3 rebounds BUT he had 8 seasons where he made the all star team and has been the man(or co man) on his team.

Unfortunatly, smith will not be in a hawks uniform at that time. joe would be retired and woodson will still be coaching the hawks lol.

whether or not those stats turn out to be somewhat true or somewhat waaaayyyy off is irrelevant. all im saying is you dont reach your prime at age 23. has dwight howard reach his prime? rajon rondo(even though i dont like him that much) reach his prime? part of a orginization is too be patient.

Edited May 22, 2009 by hoodstar

[AHF]

I change coaches before I trade Smoove for anything but a relatively young upgrade in talent.

[NJHAWK]

I'll be honest there are times when Im watching the Hawks where I want to reach threw the tv screen and grab Smoove by the neck. However the OP is correct here. Smoove with his combo of youth and skill and potential all at a very reasonable price for the next 4 years is not something you trade away for some of the halfwit trades Ive seen on here. Rubio? LMFAO LMFAO yes I know I wrote it twice. Amare to me just cannot be counted on to stay healthy. I dont mind the Bosh trade but remember even though he is supposed to be a great low post player he still shot a worse % than Smoove and Bosh does not play any d.

[dlpin]

While Josh Smith is not in his prime, I don't think he has shown enough improvement in his first five years in the league to think that he will make the leap to super star in the next five.

[ATLJA316]

The "Smoove has potential" bus ran out of gas after his third year in the league. You don't get to be the "athletic freak whose so RAW and one day he's gonna BALL" guy on a roster when you are a five year veteran. Sorry. Smoove has already reached his peak, he just needs to be more consistent with his offensive effort. There is in fact a ceiling and he has reached it.

I couldn't put it any better.

[PureGreatness]

You guys have missed the point

A "prime" is not based on how many years someone has been in the league. not how many points you scored. its based on 2 things.

Coaching Staff: A player ENTERS his prime at around 25 or 26. in the season which he is entering his prime if he does not have a great coach he will most likely either be misused or not used enough. Michael was scoring like pimp in a strip club but didnt do a damn thang except score a bunch of points until phil got to chicago. his worst season(except the wiz) was his 2nd when he averaged 22 but only played 18(injury). The question is is if woodson is the right coach for him. if woodson is our coach in the 2010/2011 season then smoove will be delt. which is kinda scarey since we will probably trade him then he will be directly in his prime.

Maturaty- This seems to be smooves biggest flaw. by the time a player enter his prime he should know his limitations and have a good BBIQ overall. but a good coach can help with that. Since smoove is strait from high school then i can add a couple more years to this equation, A dumb coach+ a young immature player for more than 7 years=underachieving.

[00Blink]

The "Smoove has potential" bus ran out of gas after his third year in the league. You don't get to be the "athletic freak whose so RAW and one day he's gonna BALL" guy on a roster when you are a five year veteran. Sorry. Smoove has already reached his peak, he just needs to be more consistent with his offensive effort. There is in fact a ceiling and he has reached it.

That being said I am not in favor of trading him just to trade him. There aren't that many players I'd agree to trade him for.

I doubt he has reached his ceiling. He has improved EVERY year. He can be a 25 and 10 player EASILY. All it takes is shot selections and staying in the post about 25% more of the time that he floats around the perimeter.

How can he do that? A real coach to hone in on his talent. He wouldn't do that with a vocal all-star. D Wade wouldn't allow him to do that, Chris Paul wouldn't, Kobe wouldn't. What I'm saying is...he hasn't reached his ceiling. He gets majority of his points from all over the floor...perimeter shots, fts, post, and dunks...if he had someone vocal, anyone, the coach or a superstar....he would reach his ceiling.

[00Blink]

No effin way. There are plenty of guys in the NBA right now who are better than Smith will ever be.

Smith's flaws are glaring and he has been in the league 5 years. At this point i would think he should realize he isn't Rashard or Kidd. I have always liked Smith but he can definitely piss me off like nobody else.

The bottom line is that Smith is the only guy on the roster other than JJ who can bring back an All-Star in a trade. This team needs another legit star and trading Smith could probably bring one in. Nobody is going to trade an All-Star for Marvin or Horford.

Name them. Smith puts up numbers across the board. If he has better shot selection and mans the post more, he is a 25 and 10 players along with 5 assists and 3 blocks a game. That is rare. He is a decent passer when focused and we don't have to think about blocks. He just needs a vocal coach or player to get onto him when he is out of pocket, someone to put him in his place and set him up for success.

Those same 5 years he's been in the league, he's had the same lame coach who is too afraid to chastise or discipline one of his own players. A coach is the real leader of a team. He is the one responsible for getting the most out of players. Smith came in the league young and with a raw game. His coach has not developed that talent by keeping him focused and disciplined.

I agree that the only people on our roster that is going to bring in another all-star in return is Smoove and Joe. But WHY IS THAT?! Even though Smoove has his flaws and has never been an all-star, why does he garner all-star talent in return. BECAUSE HE IS A RARE TALENT THAT WITH THE RIGHT COACHING AND DEVELOPMENT WILL BECOME DOMINANT!!

[00Blink]

when a player reach his prime it depends what type of coaching he has had in his career. a player doesnt reach his prime until his late 20s (around 26-33 usually). only about 10 players in the last years has reached his prime from the gate.

I put it like this. Smoove is 23. lets say when he starts the season he would 26, so in his 8th season he would be in his prime.

So far he is a 14/7/and 2 bls a game in his career. lets say he averages 16 and 7 on year and 17 and 8 the next.

Lets say in his 8th season his prime begins. lets use common sense future predictions

011/012 20 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 26)...ALL STAR

012/013 23 pts 10 rebounds 3 blocks(age 27)...ALL STAR

013/014 21 pts 10 rebounds 2 blocks(age 28)...ALL STAR

014/015 22 pts 8 rebounds 3 blocks(age 29)...ALL STAR

015/016 20 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 30)...ALL STAR

016/017 21 pts 10 rebounds 2 blocks(age 31)...ALL STAR

017/018 19 pts 8 rebounds 2 blocks(age 32)...ALL STAR

018/019 19 pts 9 rebounds 3 blocks(age 33)...ALL STAR

lets stop there. that 15 seasons. he isnt a big scorer but your typical 20 points a game guy. but he scores and get his typical 8-10 rebounds. you look at the stats and in his first 15 seasons he has a career average of 17.8 and 8.3 rebounds BUT he had 8 seasons where he made the all star team and has been the man(or co man) on his team.

Unfortunatly, smith will not be in a hawks uniform at that time. joe would be retired and woodson will still be coaching the hawks lol.

whether or not those stats turn out to be somewhat true or somewhat waaaayyyy off is irrelevant. all im saying is you dont reach your prime at age 23. has dwight howard reach his prime? rajon rondo(even though i dont like him that much) reach his prime? part of a orginization is too be patient.

This is called "incremental analysis!" You study the trend of how something or someone has been producing. With that study, you compare current trends with past trends to estimate the immediate future. Smoove has gotten better EVERY year and WANTS and STRIVES to improve each off season. This "he has reached his peak" talk is nonsense. How do you come to that analysis or conclusion when he has improved each year and continues to work in the off season to better himself. And he is only 23. Who in da he11 has reached their prime at 23. Kobe, no, but he had Shaq at a young age. Wade, LeBron, who knows, Jordan, AI, Bird, Magic...WHO?! Who has reached their prime at 23, I'm VERY curious?