Tell me Courtney Lee is more talented than Acie Law

[bumpyphish1]

Seriously, someone look me in the face and tell me that and I will shut up.

But, I don't think it is so. But of course, Lee is out there playing like someone needs to remind him he's a rookie and Acie is finding his role as our "ninth man" as Rick Sund so eloquently puts it.

The difference is that Lee was thrown into the fire by a competent head coach and allowed to learn on the fly, learn from his mistakes, and grow. So now, we see the Magic reaping the benefits.

Well, we all know how Woody handled Acie and where that has gotten us. Someone has GOT to make Woody accountable for this, which I would argue is right up there with his most egregious errors. And now we are probably gonna trade him for pennies on the the dollar and watch him blow up elsewhere. Ugh.

Look at the Rockets with Aaron Brooks, the Pistons with Rodney Stuckey. Hell, look at the Spurs with George Hill and Lakers with frickin' Vujacic. What's the common thread? Good organizations, good head coaches, trusting these guys with playing time and allowing them to develop.

Woody is a f*cking turd. ONE MORE YEAR. Please make that be all.

[MaceCase]

Playing time and confidence from the organization does wonders for a players psyche. Lee is out there playing not worrying that whatever mistake he makes will get him benched till game 7.

[Diesel]

Playing time and confidence from the organization does wonders for a players psyche. Lee is out there playing not worrying that whatever mistake he makes will get him benched till game 7.

As dominique said... Playing time cures all wounds.

[Kimsey]

Lee is a gritty player, exceptionally tough minded...

[hawkman]

Seriously, someone look me in the face and tell me that and I will shut up.

But, I don't think it is so. But of course, Lee is out there playing like someone needs to remind him he's a rookie and Acie is finding his role as our "ninth man" as Rick Sund so eloquently puts it.

The difference is that Lee was thrown into the fire by a competent head coach and allowed to learn on the fly, learn from his mistakes, and grow. So now, we see the Magic reaping the benefits.

Well, we all know how Woody handled Acie and where that has gotten us. Someone has GOT to make Woody accountable for this, which I would argue is right up there with his most egregious errors. And now we are probably gonna trade him for pennies on the the dollar and watch him blow up elsewhere. Ugh.

Look at the Rockets with Aaron Brooks, the Pistons with Rodney Stuckey. Hell, look at the Spurs with George Hill and Lakers with frickin' Vujacic. What's the common thread? Good organizations, good head coaches, trusting these guys with playing time and allowing them to develop.

Woody is a f*cking turd. ONE MORE YEAR. Please make that be all.

Yes he is. We forget that Acie got a chance to start during his rookie year but a combination of injury/poor performance caused BK to trade for Bibby. There have been waaay too many excuses made for Acie. Acie has to perform when given the opportunity. If he only gets 12 mins, he better play like those are the last 12 mins he's going to get for the season. That's the way Coutney Lee plays the game, and that's why he's been given the chance to shine in the Playoffs. Nothing was "given" to him, he earned it.

[RedDawg#8]

pre-injury his rookie year, Acie earned his minutes. he was the talk of preseason about his leadership and control of the offense. post-injury tho, he didnt return immediatley to form and woody failed to stay with him. Im sure that he has the skill to be a great baller, he needs to believe in himself again, and so does woody

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Seriously, someone look me in the face and tell me that and I will shut up.

But, I don't think it is so. But of course, Lee is out there playing like someone needs to remind him he's a rookie and Acie is finding his role as our "ninth man" as Rick Sund so eloquently puts it.

The difference is that Lee was thrown into the fire by a competent head coach and allowed to learn on the fly, learn from his mistakes, and grow. So now, we see the Magic reaping the benefits.

Well, we all know how Woody handled Acie and where that has gotten us. Someone has GOT to make Woody accountable for this, which I would argue is right up there with his most egregious errors. And now we are probably gonna trade him for pennies on the the dollar and watch him blow up elsewhere. Ugh.

Look at the Rockets with Aaron Brooks, the Pistons with Rodney Stuckey. Hell, look at the Spurs with George Hill and Lakers with frickin' Vujacic. What's the common thread? Good organizations, good head coaches, trusting these guys with playing time and allowing them to develop.

Woody is a f*cking turd. ONE MORE YEAR. Please make that be all.

It isn't the issue of who's better. The issue is who is in a better position to get playing time.

Who does Courtney have playing in front of him?

JJ Redick? ( no )

Mickael Pietrus? ( possibly, because he can play the 2 . . but Van Gundy chooses to play him at the 3 most of the time)

So Lee is actually the best 2-guard on the team.

When you look at Acie's situation, he's playing behind Bibby. And because Flip can be used to defend at the 1, he's playing behind Flip too.

There's only 3 ways Acie can get minutes:

- hope that Bibby gets traded, and we don't bring in another PG

- beat Flip out as the backup PG, and get some of the minutes he got last year.

- Hope Woody plays Flip more at the 2 . . giving Acie a chance to play limited minutes at the 1.

To be honest, it's the same situation that Daniel ( Boobie ) Gibson is in. He was the Cavs favorite role player 2 yeas ago. But these days, he can't get on the floor because both Mo and Delonte are eating up the minutes at the guard spots. Mo eats up almost 40 minutes at the point, during the playoffs. Delonte eats up over 40 minutes at the 2. In the playoffs, Gibson is only playing during garbage time, for the most part.

Acie is going to have to take his minutes, not expected them to be handed to him, like we did with Smoove, Marvin, and Chill ( when he was here ). He's going to have to do what Zaza did, and prove his worth off the bench, even in limited minutes.

Some of Acie's woes can be placed on Woody, but not all of them. Acie simply has to start outplaying people, if he wants to geton the court.

[hawkman]

pre-injury his rookie year, Acie earned his minutes. he was the talk of preseason about his leadership and control of the offense. post-injury tho, he didnt return immediatley to form and woody failed to stay with him. Im sure that he has the skill to be a great baller, he needs to believe in himself again, and so does woody

I'm not so sure that is true. He showed flashes as a starter that year but still only averaged 6 and 3 as a starter at that time. He was also wildly inconsistent before AND after his wrist(?) injury. He was given a fair shake his first season but his minutes naturally decreased as the season wore on and completely evaporated after we traded for Bibby. The truth is that Law couldn't beat out the PG tandem of Lue/Johnson even though that was BK's plan. I just don't get all of this complaining when we all saw the same games and KNOW full well that Acie kinda played his way into his current situation. There's still hope for Acie though, as we don't know how things will turn out this summer.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Actually . . now that I think about it, the guy to compare Acie to, is JJ Redick. In his first 2 years in the league, he barely got on the court. The he starts crying about his playing time.

But to be honest, he wasn't better than guys like Keith Bogans, Mo Evans, and even Kenyon Dooling ( when they played him at the 2, when he and Jameer was in the game together ). Even this year, he was starting out to be buried on the bench, because he wasn't better than Pietrus or Lee.

So why just have a mandate to give him PT, when you have people who are better than him already playing? When guys started to go down, Redick got more PT. Then when Lee went down in the playoffs, forcing him to start a few games, he came up big.

That's the situation Acie is in. And that's how Acie has to play, when he gets his opportunities to play. Like Hawkman said. If Acie is only going to play 12 minutes a game . . even 5 minutes a game, he better play as hard as he can for those 5 minutes, and try to make as many good things happen as possible.

Ish . . that's what Mario started to do, to gain a little more PT. Maybe Acie needs to watch some old Spud Webb youtube footage.

Forget the dunk contest dunks, look at the actual basketball plays he used to make. Fast forward to about the 2:57 mark, and see the type of in-game basketball plays he used to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-IoInRUjDM...feature=related

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm not so sure that is true. He showed flashes as a starter that year but still only averaged 6 and 3 as a starter at that time. He was also wildly inconsistent before AND after his wrist(?) injury. He was given a fair shake his first season but his minutes naturally decreased as the season wore on and completely evaporated after we traded for Bibby. The truth is that Law couldn't beat out the PG tandem of Lue/Johnson even though that was BK's plan. I just don't get all of this complaining when we all saw the same games and KNOW full well that Acie kinda played his way into his current situation. There's still hope for Acie though, as we don't know how things will turn out this summer.

Exactly. And I'm as big of an Acie Law fan as anybody. But like I had to do with Salim, there's only so much sympathy you can have for a guy. That guy has to produce when he gets on the court . . even if he only plays in 3 - 5 minute stretches.

If Bibby is re-signed ( or if we trade for a PG ), and we re-sign Flip, he's going to be in the same situation next year, unless he beats out Flip for some PT at the 1.

[hawkman]

Actually . . now that I think about it, the guy to compare Acie to, is JJ Redick. In his first 2 years in the league, he barely got on the court. The he starts crying about his playing time.

But to be honest, he wasn't better than guys like Keith Bogans, Mo Evans, and even Kenyon Dooling ( when they played him at the 2, when he and Jameer was in the game together ). Even this year, he was starting out to be buried on the bench, because he wasn't better than Pietrus or Lee.

So why just have a mandate to give him PT, when you have people who are better than him already playing? When guys started to go down, Redick got more PT. Then when Lee went down in the playoffs, forcing him to start a few games, he came up big.

That's the situation Acie is in. And that's how Acie has to play, when he gets his opportunities to play. Like Hawkman said. If Acie is only going to play 12 minutes a game . . even 5 minutes a game, he better play as hard as he can for those 5 minutes, and try to make as many good things happen as possible.

Ish . . that's what Mario started to do, to gain a little more PT. Maybe Acie needs to watch some old Spud Webb youtube footage.

Forget the dunk contest dunks, look at the actual basketball plays he used to make. Fast forward to about the 2:57 mark, and see the type of in-game basketball plays he used to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-IoInRUjDM...feature=related

Exactly Northcyde. Mario is an excellent example. He doesn't have anywhere NEAR the skillset that Acie has but he gives 110% the whole time he's on the court and the fans and analysts notice that too. He may get 3 mins, but you never question if he's going all out on the court. Acie has to learn to play the same way. With his skill set, he could easily play like a Bobby Jackson or Darrell Armstrong. Just go all out and be relentless. Now that would earn him some more playing time. Believe me, had he played that way last season, we wouldn't be discussing re-signing Bibby because we would've never traded for him in the first place.

[laved11]

The toughest part about being a fan of this team is they're total reative approach to this team. When Arthur Blank saw Jim Mora Jr. wasn't working, he made a change despite Mora's winning record. Either Woodson and the front office has failed at developing ANY of our young talent or the front office blew it on every single draft pick. Every year, fans say, "All Josh Smith needs to do is..." but whatever he needs to do he hasn't done it in five years. Woodson has failed Acie Law, Solomon Jones and even Al Horford. Salim Stoudamire produced the few times he played and the GM lets him go... then signs an older version of the sharp-shooting combo-guard in Flip Murray.

The truth is Acie Law could be a Rajon Rondo or a Jarrett Jack if not better, but with our current administration being so reactive and reluctant to make necessary changes, I think we as fans would still be wondering what Chris Paul and Deron Williams were capable of as Hawks because they would have played for Mike Woodson... ask Boris Diaw.

Holla!

Edited May 24, 2009 by laved11

[mrhonline]

Don't ask me. I never thought Acie would amount to anything more than a backup anyway.

It'll all be moot when the Hawks draft a PG. Law can be traded for a vet.

[laved11]

Don't ask me. I never thought Acie would amount to anything more than a backup anyway.

It'll all be moot when the Hawks draft a PG. Law can be traded for a vet.

Two points... One, no one will trade for Acie Law because they don't know what he is capable of. In fact, the Hawks don't know what he is capable of because Woodson buried him behind Tyronn Lue on a 30-win team. That is lazy and ridiculious coaching. Secondly, when you bury players at the end of the bench without letting them develop, the Hawks run the risk of getting screwed over like in the Joe Johnson deal. 2 first round picks and a player we thought was worthless because he never played under Woodson. I have a feeling that if you let Law go, he will be a more productive starter than Jarrett Jack or Rajon Rondo.

Holla!

[hawkman]

Two points... One, no one will trade for Acie Law because they don't know what he is capable of. In fact, the Hawks don't know what he is capable of because Woodson buried him behind Tyronn Lue on a 30-win team. That is lazy and ridiculious coaching. Secondly, when you bury players at the end of the bench without letting them develop, the Hawks run the risk of getting screwed over like in the Joe Johnson deal. 2 first round picks and a player we thought was worthless because he never played under Woodson. I have a feeling that if you let Law go, he will be a more productive starter than Jarrett Jack or Rajon Rondo.

Holla!

Woody didn't bury Law behind Lue and Johnson. The plan all along was for Law to take over at the point and he couldn't beat out Lue/Johnson due to either injury or poor performance. He was our starter early on and the job was his to lose and he lost it. When we saw that we couldn't "win" with Lue/Johnson as our guards, we traded for Bibby to guide us down the home stretch and on into the Playoffs. I'm not sure where all of this Woody doesn't like to play Rookies stuff came from because most of our team is comprised of young players that Woodson gave extensive minutes to since their Rookie years. I'm not Woodson's biggest fan, but he's shown that he will play ANYONE who he thinks will help this team win. I mean he even started Mario West for goodness sake! So maybe it's time we stop making excuses here.

[laved11]

Woody didn't bury Law behind Lue and Johnson. The plan all along was for Law to take over at the point and he couldn't beat out Lue/Johnson due to either injury or poor performance. He was our starter early on and the job was his to lose and he lost it. When we saw that we couldn't "win" with Lue/Johnson as our guards, we traded for Bibby to guide us down the home stretch and on into the Playoffs. I'm not sure where all of this Woody doesn't like to play Rookies stuff came from because most of our team is comprised of young players that Woodson gave extensive minutes to since their Rookie years. I'm not Woodson's biggest fan, but he's shown that he will play ANYONE who he thinks will help this team win. I mean he even started Mario West for goodness sake! So maybe it's time we stop making excuses here.

That is a load and you know it. There has not been one player that has gotten better under Mike Woodson. We all have watched our draft picks get surpassed by players we passed on... not because they are more talented, but they play for coaches that establishes roles for his players and they focus on getting better in their roles. Luo Deng and Andre Iguodala surpassed Childress, we know Paul and Deron Williams, Chris Duhon taken after Royal Ivey, J.R. Smith has become a much better player than Josh Smith who was taken a pick before. Even Al Horford who many agree is a good pick, what specifically has he been asked to do in Woodson's "system."

Face it, we still don't know what position Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Al Horford are trying to play. They just float with no direction and this team has never had any sort of identity unders Woodson. Honestly, the Hawks under Woodson simply look like a pick-up game night-in and night-out.

Holla!