Diesel presents the white elephant in the room...

[Diesel]

Our problem now is an untradable Smoove and a Horf that is out of position with no C or PG..

Hawks fans are going to have to wrap their minds around these realities:

1. Smoove is not going to be traded.

2. Smoove is your starting PF for the next 4 years.

3. Horf will never be a PF.

4. Horf's value is highest now and we may be able to get a real C for him. IF so, we should. I wonder if Horf for Brook Lopez will fly?

5. Sund likes Bibby and will probably resign him.

Our team dynamic starts and ends with three point shooters in the lack of low post scorers.

Horf is our biggest movable piece.

Marvin comes next.

Supposedly, the Grizz is sold on Thabeet. Maybe Gasol is available?

Maybe Horf for Gasol.

[PureGreatness]

if there is anything in smooves contract that makes him decline a trade in any shape form or fashion then you can scratch out bosh and toronto.

unless the raptors bring in some better players where it looks like they would be at least an 8 seed in the east then smith would go. right now the way there roster looks they will probably win 32 games tops WITH bosh. they need every position except PG and PF(whether smith or bosh).

Horf for gasol is good.

Edited May 26, 2009 by hoodstar

[tbhawksfan]

I don't think the problem is in the Horf/Smoove rotation. Put a real C with them and you have a very good PF/C rotation. Zaza plays a role, but isn't what we need next to Horf/Smoove. Some say that Horf didn't do any better when played at PF with Zaza at C. Maybe the problem is that Zaza was not the C you need next to Horf. Replace Zaza with Kaman, Camby, Biendrins, maybe even Bargnani and I think Horf would look much better in his PF minutes.

Keep Horf/Smoove/Marvin, bring in a real C to add to the rotation and sign Sessions, letting Bibby go. I think the imbalance we see would disappear. Better D, better post O and a point of attack at the point on O and D.

[Diesel]

if there is anything in smooves contract that makes him decline a trade in any shape form or fashion then you can scratch out bosh and toronto.

unless the raptors bring in some better players where it looks like they would be at least an 8 seed in the east then smith would go. right now the way there roster looks they will probably win 32 games tops WITH bosh. they need every position except PG and PF(whether smith or bosh).

Horf for gasol is good.

First off. The Raptors would have to be willing to deal with a trade kicker. Usually that's a stumbling block for most teams because generally (not saying this is Smoove's case).. the trade Kicker adds 15% to Smoove Salary so a team would have to be able to absorb that 15% while only sending back Smoove's original salary. i.e. either a team have and exemption or a team that is under the cap. IN 2010, that might be easy, but now... the possibility is less likely (if it's a 15% kicker... what I see a lot).

I really like the Horf for Gasol deal too.

I think about it this way... It's good for Memphis:

Thabeet, Horf, Gay, OJ, Conley Jr. That's a strong young squad.

We'd have:

Gasol, Smoove, Marvin or CHill or Mo, JJ, and probably Bibby.

Gasol is 7'1" 265, moves well with the ball and rebounds OK for a rookie.... But he would definitely take some of the pressure off of SMoove and add some low post scoring, a sweeping hook, and a face up jumper.

[Diesel]

I don't think the problem is in the Horf/Smoove rotation. Put a real C with them and you have a very good PF/C rotation. Zaza plays a role, but isn't what we need next to Horf/Smoove. Some say that Horf didn't do any better when played at PF with Zaza at C. Maybe the problem is that Zaza was not the C you need next to Horf. Replace Zaza with Kaman, Camby, Biendrins, maybe even Bargnani and I think Horf would look much better in his PF minutes.

Keep Horf/Smoove/Marvin, bring in a real C to add to the rotation and sign Sessions, letting Bibby go. I think the imbalance we see would disappear. Better D, better post O and a point of attack at the point on O and D.

This may be true. The problem is going to be that a "real" C will not be the starting Center. If we brought in Camby, he will come off the bench. Then we have the same problem we had with Zaza.

Let's be honest, in the playoffs, Zaza was huge. He had some very solid games. It was Horf who didn't come to play and Horf played a majority of the minutes at Center when he was not injured.

If we could complete a Horf for Gasol trade, Resign Zaza, Resign Hunter, and get a guy like McDyess in Free agency, we would be set. We'd have a big man rotation that could actually do work.

[mrhonline]

Sund sounds convinced that Horford is top15 as a center. I think (sadly), he's right.

I don't see them trading either player anytime soon.

[Diesel]

Sund sounds convinced that Horford is top15 as a center. I think (sadly), he's right.

I don't see them trading either player anytime soon.

Did SUnd miss the playoffs.

I understand that Horf was injured, but uninjured, we still get out rebounded by Cleveland's bigs.

And what about that no name guy in Miami? He probably worked up a new contract the way he played our frontline.

[tbhawksfan]

IF, we brought in a Kaman or another equal C, Horf and Smoove could still start at PF and C, but the rotation could also be re-worked. I wouldn't care who starts, just who wins. There are enough minutes for three NBA starters at PF / C. 96:3=32

The problem with our present rotation is that Smoove and Horford are under-sized and Zaza isn't good enough to be the C that would make the rotation work.

I like Zaza, but I'd much prefer something like Horf / Smoove / Kaman / Frye (cheap sign) over Horf / Smoove / Zaza / Solo. This is doable.

If we were willing to trade for Baron, I think they'd throw Kaman in.

Horford / Kaman

Smoove / Frye

MW / Mo

JJ / Flip

Baron / Law

plus rookies.

[crimedog]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the phrase pink elephant in the room?

Anyway, I think mrh is probably right on this one. As much complaining as we hear on this issue. Josh and Al make a better starting frontcourt than a lot of teams in this league have.

[Diesel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the phrase pink elephant in the room?

Anyway, I think mrh is probably right on this one. As much complaining as we hear on this issue. Josh and Al make a better starting frontcourt than a lot of teams in this league have.

But we're still one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.

Josh and AL as a C/PF tandem probably ranks about 15th in the league. I don't know where you can check that.. but I would like to see them in a big man's camp this summer.

[TheDude]

One of the biggest problems in the post we have is not really a problem with the post but rather with the lack of defensiveness quickness at the guard position...our post men get out of man defense position to stop a driving guard....that also puts them out of position to rebound..i think by not having a point guard who can get driven past by a Yugo would help tremendously..

with that said having someone who is strong an athletic on the bench wouldn't help..and i would definitely like to see smoove work on footwork and horford work on post offense..

[NJHAWK]

Before you say Smoove is untradeable and that the Raptors would have to deal with a trade kicker we should all know for a fact what the kicker # is ( I dont know what the # is either but we should know it 1st). The Raptors dont have to deal with it because it doesnt follow you team by team its a one time bonus that I believe the Hawks have to pay not the team trading for him. Also you say he will be here for 4 years but as the money we owe Smoove on his deal lessons so does the # of the trade kicker. It may be anywhere from 3 mill to 7 mill now but each year it gets smaller. If I understand this correctly it would be easier to match up Smoove in a trade with Bosh because it will make their salary #'s in a trade closer because Bosh makes more money. The problem is will ASG pay the bonus on Smoove to get Bosh here?

Edited May 26, 2009 by NJHAWK

[MaceCase]

Did SUnd miss the playoffs.

I understand that Horf was injured, but uninjured, we still get out rebounded by Cleveland's bigs.

And what about that no name guy in Miami? He probably worked up a new contract the way he played our frontline.

That no name guy was Joel Anthony a 6'9" shot blocking center. You might remember him playing for team Canada in place of Dalembert during the olympic exhibition game with team USA.

[NJHAWK]

Actually wouldnt the trade kicker make a deal more attactive to a team like Toronto? For example if the Hawks have to pay the kicker ( I think they do but am not 100% certain) but it increases Smooves value in a trade it would save Toronto money. So instead of this scenario Smoove 11 mill Speedy Clank 6 mill to Toronto for Bosh 16 mill it would be Smoove 11mill plus lets say a 5 mill trade kicker which the Hawks pay ( again nobody knows how much the kicker is but its just a guess) to make it 16 mill to Toronto for Bosh 16 mill. That way Toronto doesnt even have to pay Speedy for a year they just pay Smoove his 11 mil. They trade Bosh for Smoove and maybe a pick and they save 6 million dollars by not having to pay a filler like Clank. If I have all this right the only thing that the kicker does is make ASG pony up some extra cash to Smoove to get a guy like Bosh. They are not running the team on the cheap or anything are they? LMFAO

Edited May 26, 2009 by NJHAWK

[Anansi]

First off. The Raptors would have to be willing to deal with a trade kicker. Usually that's a stumbling block for most teams because generally (not saying this is Smoove's case).. the trade Kicker adds 15% to Smoove Salary so a team would have to be able to absorb that 15% while only sending back Smoove's original salary. i.e. either a team have and exemption or a team that is under the cap. IN 2010, that might be easy, but now... the possibility is less likely (if it's a 15% kicker... what I see a lot).

I really like the Horf for Gasol deal too.

I think about it this way... It's good for Memphis:

Thabeet, Horf, Gay, OJ, Conley Jr. That's a strong young squad.

We'd have:

Gasol, Smoove, Marvin or CHill or Mo, JJ, and probably Bibby.

Gasol is 7'1" 265, moves well with the ball and rebounds OK for a rookie.... But he would definitely take some of the pressure off of SMoove and add some low post scoring, a sweeping hook, and a face up jumper.

I would hate to see Horford traded but for Gasol and maybe a future first I think it would be a trade we have to look into making. Gasol gives us more size and we need that.

[T21]

I would hate to see Horford traded but for Gasol and maybe a future first I think it would be a trade we have to look into making. Gasol gives us more size and we need that.

C'mon people! Are you serious???? Al for Gasol?????

I'd have to say yes, but if Gasol was Pau!!!!

... Hell NO to that lazy, no-jump, no D.... I don't know how to call him! Terrible player on a terrible team! :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

[MaceCase]

C'mon people! Are you serious???? Al for Gasol?????

I'd have to say yes, but if Gasol was Pau!!!!

... Hell NO to that lazy, no-jump, no D.... I don't know how to call him! Terrible player on a terrible team! :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Marc averaged almost 12ppg on 53% shooting and 7rebounds with a block in his rookie season, is a legit 7footer and unlike his brother actually likes playing down in the paint. If size is what we need and Al could get us that then pull the trigger.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Our problem now is an untradable Smoove and a Horf that is out of position with no C or PG..

Hawks fans are going to have to wrap their minds around these realities:

1. Smoove is not going to be traded.

2. Smoove is your starting PF for the next 4 years.

3. Horf will never be a PF.

4. Horf's value is highest now and we may be able to get a real C for him. IF so, we should. I wonder if Horf for Brook Lopez will fly?

5. Sund likes Bibby and will probably resign him.

Our team dynamic starts and ends with three point shooters in the lack of low post scorers.

Horf is our biggest movable piece.

Marvin comes next.

Supposedly, the Grizz is sold on Thabeet. Maybe Gasol is available?

Maybe Horf for Gasol.

Well, I believe the chances are very slim that Josh Smith gets traded, but that doesn't mean within the next four seasons he's not moved. It's going to depend on how he does during the upcoming season and how much Al Horford develops. We'll never know exactly what we have with Al until he plays the 4. You can see how well he does against 5's his size, but against the taller and more bulky 5's he has a big disadvantage. For Al to get an advantage on the bigger centers he'll need to follow what Dwight Howard's workout and increase his speed.

Al Horford's value is far from being high right now. He didn't perform well during the playoffs and he's only going to be looked at as potiential. Al won't acquire us Brook Lopez, not even close, and Brook has proven he's capable of being an All-Star center during the future.

I fully expect Mike Bibby to be back next season. Not because of Sund, but because we have a limited amount of options, and Mike Bibby is the easily way to fill our point guard need.

[DJlaysitup]

One of the biggest problems in the post we have is not really a problem with the post but rather with the lack of defensiveness quickness at the guard position...our post men get out of man defense position to stop a driving guard....that also puts them out of position to rebound..i think by not having a point guard who can get driven past by a Yugo would help tremendously..

Right Doc...exactly right.

Deisel's initial comment was silly: "Our problem now is an untradable Smoove...."

Smoove untradable - :no-no:

Smoove at his contract level is tradable as he11...we just better not do it. Let's remember we basically gave away Diaw as a lost cause and since then he has become a solid player in the league. Other teams would LOVE to get Smoove with his current contract..... (under a decent coach and system). Other teams look at our players and wonder what they would/could be in their scheme.

I think we are poorly respected around the league as far as player development goes. :kickcan:

[Swatguy]

Josh has a ...

Edited May 28, 2009 by Swatguy