Marvin Williams...current worth

[exodus]

That's exactly what I meant by financial clarity to go after free agents. We have to CLEAR these cap holds. For us to hold our sack while RFA Marvin seeks out a team that will pay him what he's not worth is us shooting ourselves in the foot.

You could make the same argument about Childress. Bibby has a huge cap hold as well. The Hawks would basically have to renounce all their free agents to be able to offer much more than the MLE and that isn't going to happen.

Even if the Hawks renounced Marvin on July 1 they still wouldn't be able to offer a free agent more than the MLE.

Since you didn't answer the question i will ask it again. Who are the high profile free agents that Sund has signed early?

[Diesel]

You could make the same argument about Childress. Bibby has a huge cap hold as well. The Hawks would basically have to renounce all their free agents to be able to offer much more than the MLE and that isn't going to happen.

I could and I do. Moreover, if we renounced all of our contracts, we would have roughly 10 Million. I would rather just SNT a few of our contracts and make quick signs/Renounce.. and have a ~5 Million dollar space and a 5 Million dollar exemption after that.

[exodus]

I could and I do. Moreover, if we renounced all of our contracts, we would have roughly 10 Million. I would rather just SNT a few of our contracts and make quick signs/Renounce.. and have a ~5 Million dollar space and a 5 Million dollar exemption after that.

That isn't going to happen. Sunds history is that he takes his time with free agents and it has nothing to do with the cap situation. I would have prefered that he moved quickly last summer and signed Roger Mason but it didn't happen.

[Diesel]

That isn't going to happen. Sunds history is that he takes his time with free agents and it has nothing to do with the cap situation. I would have prefered that he moved quickly last summer and signed Roger Mason but it didn't happen.

How can you say it has nothing to do with Cap?

When was the last time Sund was in charge of a team that was not in financial inflexibility?

Gosh, Ex. Stop making it up.

Can't say Seattle... They had ownership problems like ours.

Can't say Dallas... Their owner was cheap too.

When?

[exodus]

How can you say it has nothing to do with Cap?

When was the last time Sund was in charge of a team that was not in financial inflexibility?

Gosh, Ex. Stop making it up.

Can't say Seattle... They had ownership problems like ours.

Can't say Dallas... Their owner was cheap too.

When?

When are you going to answer my question? When has Sund EVER signed a high profile free agent quickly?

He shelled out huge deals Ray Allen and Rashard so you can't say he was completely cashed strapped all the time.

[Admin]

Your only point is on top of your hat. Comparing a RFA to guys who were never free agents makes no sense at all. Comparing a role player to franchise players makes no sense either.

He's using the Chewbacca defense ... it makes no sense

[MemphisX]

Can Marvin Williams play PF? Grizz fans (including me) were thinking about targeting him as a restricted free agent. Do you think the ASG would match a 5 year/$50 million offer sheet (11,10.5,10,9.5,9)?

[MaceCase]

At that price he is yours....... no way could we or would we match it. He's better suited at SF though.

[Admin]

Can Marvin Williams play PF? Grizz fans (including me) were thinking about targeting him as a restricted free agent. Do you think the ASG would match a 5 year/$50 million offer sheet (11,10.5,10,9.5,9)?

He played PF in college and plays it for us sometimes. He's got a pretty weak core so he can be pushed around in the paint so it's not a place where he can score or defend all that well. As to that offer sheet they might match that but it would depend on what we do with Bibby.

[exodus]

Can Marvin Williams play PF? Grizz fans (including me) were thinking about targeting him as a restricted free agent. Do you think the ASG would match a 5 year/$50 million offer sheet (11,10.5,10,9.5,9)?

He has the length of the power forward but not the strength. His standing reach is 9' but he is pretty weak though. I would think he could defend the 4 reasonably well. He is a pretty good defender.

On offense he would routinely be able to beat 4s off the dribble.

It could work.

[DJlaysitup]

I'm hoping the Hawks develop Marvin into a Battier-type player.

LOL :beathorse: fat chance.

[DJlaysitup]

He has the length of the power forward but not the strength. His standing reach is 9' but he is pretty weak though. I would think he could defend the 4 reasonably well. He is a pretty good defender.

On offense he would routinely be able to beat 4s off the dribble.

It could work.

Yes ex...it could work against Missouri St. Louis...maybe even Kansas on a bad day.

Marvin has simply been overcome. He hasn't moved up enough and the young guys are chewing at his @ss. No other teams are going to want a player with "upside" when there are younger players with upside. We (BK) just missed.

Edited June 6, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

Yes ex...it could work against Missouri St. Louis...maybe even Kansas on a bad day.

Marvin has simply been overcome. He hasn't moved up enough and the young guys are chewing at his @ss. No other teams are going to want a player with "upside" when there are younger players with upside. We (BK) just missed.

Marvin has actually done very well when we have played him at the 4. Of course you wouldn't notice because you are still blaming him because he was the second pick even though he didn't pick himself.

[DJlaysitup]

Marvin has actually done very well when we have played him at the 4. Of course you wouldn't notice because you are still blaming him because he was the second pick even though he didn't pick himself.

I am certainly not blaming Marvin...get what you can get is my opinion. It's almost hard to blame BK too....what with all the analysts calling him "Worthy with a jumper". Obviously that didn't work out.

I still blame BK though. He had a team with a need and didn't fill that need when he had TWO guys who could have (CP3 and Deron)....obviously in hindsight we should have taken CP3 - but if we had Deron I wouldn't b!tch (much).

Back then we needed two things - a PG and a Center. Currently we need two things - a PG and a Center - go figure.

[DJlaysitup]

Here are some of the many people who signed after James Jones last offseason. According to your "speed of signing equals value" theory, Jones should be more valuable than all of these:

JR Smith

Andre Iguodala

Ron Artest

Josh Smith

Emeka Okafor

Luol Deng

Gilbert Arenas

Corey Maggette

Baron Davis

Notice on this list (top of the list last to sign) that all UFA were signed before any of the RFA.

That's an edited list - there were others that you didn't put in there.

P.S. Chris Bosh just did exactly the opposite and he is a much bigger impact player than anybody on your list....he will play another year for T and then get a MAX....wherever he wan'ts it.

Edited June 6, 2009 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

I am certainly not blaming Marvin...get what you can get is my opinion. It's almost hard to blame BK too....what with all the analysts calling him "Worthy with a jumper". Obviously that didn't work out.

I still blame BK though. He had a team with a need and didn't fill that need when he had TWO guys who could have (CP3 and Deron)....obviously in hindsight we should have taken CP3 - but if we had Deron I wouldn't b!tch (much).

Back then we needed two things - a PG and a Center. Currently we need two things - a PG and a Center - go figure.

Do you think there is someone on this board that doesn't think we would be better off with Paul and Deron?

If not then why are you bringing up the 2005 draft since it has no relevance to the issue of whether or not marvin can play the 4?

[Diesel]

Of course you wouldn't notice because you are still blaming him because he was the second pick even though he didn't pick himself.

The other day, my wife went out and bought some coffee. She didn't get the gourmet brand we normally get, she got a brand that tastes like dried monkey droppings (which some people drink?). At this point, I have a choice:

I could either:

1. Act as if this coffee is the best thing in the world since my wife brought it home.

2. Be honest and say this coffee sucks and get rid of it.

Nobody is blaming Marvin for what he is... overrated and unaggressive. However, it is sickening to see you guys constantly acting as if Marvin is some star level player. He's an overhyped slightly above average Sf. He plays the easiest position in the game of basketball and it has taken him 4 years to become useful. I really hope that our GM does not intend on overpaying Marvin because he was a #2 pick.

Take home message:

Just because we drafted him doesn't mean that we stay loyal to this guy until he's out of the league. We have to start looking at what's best for the team and paying Marvin 8+ Million is not what's best for the team.

[Admin]

Just because we drafted him doesn't mean that we stay loyal to this guy until he's out of the league. We have to start looking at what's best for the team and paying Marvin 8+ Million is not what's best for the team.

Okay Diesel then who can the Hawks sign considering their current payroll situation who is available as a FA that is young and puts up better numbers than Marvin?

[exodus]

The other day, my wife went out and bought some coffee. She didn't get the gourmet brand we normally get, she got a brand that tastes like dried monkey droppings (which some people drink?). At this point, I have a choice:

I could either:

1. Act as if this coffee is the best thing in the world since my wife brought it home.

2. Be honest and say this coffee sucks and get rid of it.

Nobody is blaming Marvin for what he is... overrated and unaggressive. However, it is sickening to see you guys constantly acting as if Marvin is some star level player.

This is just flat out dumb. Who is acting like marvin is a star level player? Nobody. You are just making up a strawman so your argument doesn't look completely retarded. News flash, it isn't working.

Marvin is a role player pure and simple. Most likely that is all he will ever be. But that has nothing to do with the 2005 draft.

Calling him unaggressive is pretty ridiculous since he gets to the foul line more often per shot attempt than anyone on the team.

[Diesel]

Okay Diesel then who can the Hawks sign considering their current payroll situation who is available as a FA that is young and puts up better numbers than Marvin?

It's not about signing anybody. It's about getting the best use out of that moving piece. There's lots of trades that can be done with Marvin.

Marvin for Hinrich?

Marvin for Howard?

Marvin for Dalembert?

I mean, we can do this all day. The point is that we shouldn't be content to just sign Marvin to a big deal when we know that Marvin is not worth the money.