Marvin may wind up playing in Europe

[gsuteke]

Saw this on RealGM. It's slow around here. It's worth discussing.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=912479

Olympiacos Is Interested in Marvin Williams

by KWSN-Men on Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:21 pm

I hate to tell you guys this but right now Olympiacos might lose their starting power forward Ioannis Bourousis to the NBA. He's got a big contract offer from the Spurs and he has been putting off his meeting with Olympiacos for days now. It appears he is going to the Spurs.

So because of this the latest news in Greece was that IF Bourousis goes to the Spurs then Olympiacos is going to try to get Marvin Williams to replace him. It seems that Josh Childress has been talking to him a lot and has been asking him to come to Olympiacos and has been telling him how much he is enjoying it in Greece.

The offer being thrown around would be supposedly the same type of money being offered to Anthony Parker. That's more than Childress got. That's about 3 years $8 million net per season. Or about the same as $16 million per season in the NBA.

Sorry to give you guys this bad news about Olympiacos trying to raid your team again. But keep in mind this seems contingent on Bourousis leaving to join the Spurs. So you guys might want to keep an eye out for that. I'll keep you guys posted on the Bourousis situation.

Edited June 11, 2009 by gsuteke

[gsuteke]

Marvin's value to NBA teams is way higher than Chillz IMO because of his potential.

If he took the short money like Chillz did he'd kill his value in the long run IMO as Chillz will likely do if he stays over there one more season.

[MaceCase]

I don't think Marvin would kill his value and I don't think Chill killed his value either. If anything playing Euro-ball only emphasized Chillz value as a player. He can't create his own offense and got the majority of his baskets by working angles all of which are entirely different with their shorter 3 point line and trapezoid lane. Marvin on the other hand is a prototypical Euro player (soft jokes aside). He is a jumpshooting bigman which, if you haven't noticed, is all they produce over there. I Don't know how he'll stack up against the rest of them but that is a league and style that he can thrive in.

[BigDirty]

Chillz wants Marvin to join Olympiacos so he can return to the Hawks and be a starter! :stirthepot:

[Bahamut]

Chillz wants Marvin to join Olympiacos so he can return to the Hawks and be a starter! :stirthepot:

When Chills originally signed with Olympiakos, I remember him saying that the only other Hawk who could appreciate playing in Europe would be Marvin.

Coincidence? :idea:

[Diesel]

Chillz wants Marvin to join Olympiacos so he can return to the Hawks and be a starter! :stirthepot:

They have the same agent... but that would be funny smart!!!

[DrReality]

Doesn't sound that plausable from the perspective that Chill was a Stanford guy for three years and more mature. But the Hawks cannot afford to lose another top draft choice without some compensation in return. Seems to me that they would be motivated to trade him before that would happen.

[coachx]

From Sekou's newest article:

One player pointed to last summer's free agent season as proof that the Hawks didn't exactly swing for the fences and insisted that their frugal ways will come back to haunt them eventually, perhaps as soon as this summer.

"They waited until the last minute on [smith] and had to wait for Memphis to put something on the table to get a deal done," he said. "They lost the other Josh to Greece and then filled the holes with role players. Let's be real man, and I’m not disrespecting anybody but signing Randolph Morris, Othello Hunter and Thomas Gardner doesn’t translate into championship moves. That sounds more like a team worried about spending some real money. And to players, that's the kind of franchise you don't want to deal with when you're a free agent."

Sounds like Chillz is the player being quoted. Who else would know Hunter and Gardner's first names ? I doubt an active Hawks player would name out their teamates and organization like that. Especially one looking to resign here. Sounds like a guy with bad grapes. A guy trying to rationalize why the Hawks did not pay to retain them. No mention of the production Mo and Flip gave the Hawks which was more production then Chillz gave and at a lesser price. No mention of how no team in the entire NBA presented Chillz with an offer sheet close to what the Greek team offered. Just alot of bad grapes is all I hear and that could have only come from Chillz.

The last thing we need is for Chillz to be talking crap in Marvin's ear. Chillz seems to not be able to accept that the entire NBA did not think he is worth what Greece offered him..........not just the Hawks.

Chillz seems to have taken the nature of how RFA negotiations go in the NBA very personal. He probably really liked BK too,and holds it against the Hawks that BK was let go.

Any how, I hope we keep Marvin and I'm getting a little tired of the Chillz act.

[NJHAWK]

From Sekou's newest article:

One player pointed to last summer's free agent season as proof that the Hawks didn't exactly swing for the fences and insisted that their frugal ways will come back to haunt them eventually, perhaps as soon as this summer.

"They waited until the last minute on [smith] and had to wait for Memphis to put something on the table to get a deal done," he said. "They lost the other Josh to Greece and then filled the holes with role players. Let's be real man, and I’m not disrespecting anybody but signing Randolph Morris, Othello Hunter and Thomas Gardner doesn’t translate into championship moves. That sounds more like a team worried about spending some real money. And to players, that's the kind of franchise you don't want to deal with when you're a free agent."

Sounds like Chillz is the player being quoted. Who else would know Hunter and Gardner's first names ? I doubt an active Hawks player would name out their teamates and organization like that. Especially one looking to resign here. Sounds like a guy with bad grapes. A guy trying to rationalize why the Hawks did not pay to retain them. No mention of the production Mo and Flip gave the Hawks which was more production then Chillz gave and at a lesser price. No mention of how no team in the entire NBA presented Chillz with an offer sheet close to what the Greek team offered. Just alot of bad grapes is all I hear and that could have only come from Chillz.

The last thing we need is for Chillz to be talking crap in Marvin's ear. Chillz seems to not be able to accept that the entire NBA did not think he is worth what Greece offered him..........not just the Hawks.

Chillz seems to have taken the nature of how RFA negotiations go in the NBA very personal. He probably really liked BK too,and holds it against the Hawks that BK was let go.

Any how, I hope we keep Marvin and I'm getting a little tired of the Chillz act.

Chills said he got 2 offers for sign and trades to other teams but the Hawks didnt want to make the deals. We dont know what the offers were but he did say the money was higher than what the Hawks offered.

[coachx]

Chills said he got 2 offers for sign and trades to other teams but the Hawks didnt want to make the deals. We dont know what the offers were but he did say the money was higher than what the Hawks offered.

Why should the Hawks take back crap players in a sign and trade ? I am sure teams were offering their versions of their most undesirable players, like our own Speedy Claxton, for Chillz. That is not the same thing as garnering a players worth on the open market. Would you not rather have the freedom to use that money at your own discretion (we used it on Mo and Flip). Its safe to say that if teams were offering players better then Flip and Mo we would have done the sign and trade.

The teams with money did not think Chillz was worth what he was asking PERIOD. If they did, he would have been presented with an offer sheet. I am sure plenty of teams would love to move there most undesirable contracts for another player but that is a entirely different situation.

Edited June 11, 2009 by coachx

[Brotha2ThaNite]

IF THIS HAPPENS..... :lol6:

PPL alway talked about BK doing the wrong thing...... well they player he did pick made the Hawks a better team. Now under Sund the Hawks could have another year were a young Up N Coming talent leaves with nothing in return :ill:

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Why should the Hawks take back crap players in a sign and trade ? I am sure teams were offering their versions of their most undesirable players, like our own Speedy Claxton, for Chillz. That is not the same thing as garnering a players worth on the open market. Would you not rather have the freedom to use that money at your own discretion (we used it on Mo and Flip). Its safe to say that if teams were offering players better then Flip and Mo we would have done the sign and trade.

The teams with money did not think Chillz was worth what he was asking PERIOD. If they did, he would have been presented with an offer sheet. I am sure plenty of teams would love to move there most undesirable contracts for another player but that is a entirely different situation.

:thumbsdownsmileyanim: ahhhhh if they didn't have the cap space they could only get him through sign N trade, right?

Oh yeah NJHAWK, there were 4 teams that wanted to do a sign in trade not 2.

[T21]

I believe Hawks will do what it takes to keep Marvin... He's very important to our system, although there are many who don't appreciate him or don't want to understand that he's still very young and keeps improving constantly...

As far as Chillz is concerned... he had a so-so season in Olympiacos. First of all, Greeks expected more from Chillz (scoring, creating for others...), eventualy they had to settle for good D, putbacks, occassional slash or two to the basket and freakish lookin' 3ball! Olympiacos is a team with so many international stars (bench deeper than many NBA teams), so at the end Chillz was in a good situation, because he wasn't under huge pressure... Before, when euro-powerhouses used to sign ex-NBA stars, there was a huge pressure and expectations...

P.S. Bourousis is a classic center, 7'1".

[Admin]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim: ahhhhh if they didn't have the cap space they could only get him through sign N trade, right?

Oh yeah NJHAWK, there were 4 teams that wanted to do a sign in trade not 2.

Not that it matters but I'm pretty sure it was 2 teams, San Antonio and someone else that I can't remember.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Not that it matters but I'm pretty sure it was 2 teams, San Antonio and someone else that I can't remember.

Nope, it was 4 remember.... I sent u the info which I still have.

[NJHAWK]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim: ahhhhh if they didn't have the cap space they could only get him through sign N trade, right?

Oh yeah NJHAWK, there were 4 teams that wanted to do a sign in trade not 2.

I would love to know what the offers were. I wish there was some type document release a few years later of trade offers that were made but declined, lol that would be cool. Kind of like when the usa does something bad and seals all the documents for like 50 years. I know Knight had Calderon for Chills all but wrapped up but ASG said no. I also am almost positive Portland wanted Marv so bad that they offered pick #3 , a late 1st rounder ( I think they had a pick in the 20's that year), and a future 1st. They didnt get Knight to budge and already had Telfair so they traded out of the point guard spot with Utah.

[gsuteke]

It was mentioned in that thread I linked (not sure if it's true because the cap is confusing as hell) the Hawks would have 25 million in capholds tied up between Marvin and Chillz if Marvin would to walk overseas.

Sooner or later you've got to find replacements for these guys and they'll likely want to get paid for playing for the Hawks.

[Diesel]

Why should the Hawks take back crap players in a sign and trade ? I am sure teams were offering their versions of their most undesirable players, like our own Speedy Claxton, for Chillz. That is not the same thing as garnering a players worth on the open market. Would you not rather have the freedom to use that money at your own discretion (we used it on Mo and Flip). Its safe to say that if teams were offering players better then Flip and Mo we would have done the sign and trade.

The teams with money did not think Chillz was worth what he was asking PERIOD. If they did, he would have been presented with an offer sheet. I am sure plenty of teams would love to move there most undesirable contracts for another player but that is a entirely different situation.

Hate to bring in some reality.. but the "teams with money" didn't have a need for a SF/SG last offseason. You're basically talking about Memphis, Golden State, Philly, and Clipps. You're talking Mayo/Gay, Maggette/Jackson/Ellis, Iguadala, and Thornton.

[coachx]

Hate to bring in some reality.. but the "teams with money" didn't have a need for a SF/SG last offseason. You're basically talking about Memphis, Golden State, Philly, and Clipps. You're talking Mayo/Gay, Maggette/Jackson/Ellis, Iguadala, and Thornton.

The Warriors did need a wing. The Warriors opted for Magette over Chillz. They could have had Chillz if they valued him and he would have been much cheaper then Maggette.

Those four teams all have one thing in common just like the 07-08 Hawks.....that being they were all sub .500 teams who Chillz was not enough good enough to start for. The good teams rarely have much money for FA.

That should tell you something about Chillz realistic value around the league. He is a 6th man at best for most NBA teams but wanted starter money.

If Sund felt the sign and trade offers were better then what he could have gotten in the open market (Flip, Evans, Morris, Hunter) then he would have surely done the deal. There was obviously either a really bad contract or inferior talent in the trade proposals. Trading inferior players and /or bad contracts for Chillz is not a sign of his true market value in any sort of positive way for Chillz. If Chillz was that good then the sign and trades offers would have had a players in there better then Flip and Evans to make the deal to good for Sund to turn down.

Edited June 11, 2009 by coachx

[coachx]

It was mentioned in that thread I linked (not sure if it's true because the cap is confusing as hell) the Hawks would have 25 million in cap holds tied up between Marvin and Chillz if Marvin would to walk overseas.

Sooner or later you've got to find replacements for these guys and they'll likely want to get paid for playing for the Hawks.

If the dooms day scenario happens then it may be worth it to cut bait (release our rights to them) and move on. Marvin's cap hold would be substantial. Marvin's cap hold ($14 mill) and Chillz cap hold ($10.89 mill) according to the salary thread at the top of the Homecourt Forum Page.

Looks like Marvin has a card to play (thanks to Chillz) and we may have to spend $40 mill over 5 years to keep him around. Marvin's agent will be posturing for $45 mill over 5 years.

I could see it making sense if we let Bibby go for a cheaper replacement like Hinrich or Ford to compensate for the $$$.

Edited June 11, 2009 by coachx