The Future of the Hawks Center

[TheDude]

The Link

Many people do not think Al Horford should be the long term answer at center for the Atlanta Hawks. And in almost anyone's estimation, Zaza Pachulia would be an excellent long term solution for the back up center role. It is an odd situation to be in. Zaza has set the example for what Hawks fans desire for a backup without there being any consensus on what the starter should look like.

In his first two years, Al Horford has been a serviceable center. He rebounds well, defends admirably, and can score efficiently, but he does none of these three things at an elite level. It is tough to contend that those shortcomings are simply the facts, the reality of Horford's ceiling as a center in the is league. Considering his usage rat, youth, and the Hawks inability to play a style that benefits him, many variable that would seemingly improve Al as a player have yet to be tested. What if he received 12-15 shots a game, what if the Hawks play more up tempo, what if Al improves that 12 foot jumper as much from year two to year three as he did from year one to year two? These are questions we do not have answers to but the more likely outcome would seem to be a better Al Horford.

It leaves the Hawks with three scenarios. Move Al to power forward, accept Horford ceiling as an about average center, or switch up the variables.

Moving Al to power forward

I say move Al to power forward with the firm belief that would mean trading Josh Smith. The Inspector does not have the shooting range or lateral quickness to stay with small forwards in this league. And with the leadership, worth ethic, and desire to get better Al Horford displays on a nightly basis, it would be tough to draw a line in the sand between building around Al or Josh and choose Josh. The sentence you would have to finish is "we are moving Al Horford to power forward because _____." The answers I come up with for that word problem do not rationalize the roster overall and risk that would occur.

He is who we thought he was

Even in this system, with this amount of touches, and this role, Al Horford is going to get better. He will learn the nuances of rebounding, knock down that jumper, slightly improve his post game. Big Al's attitude and desire to win alone will push him to be a better player. So you ask, knowing slight improvement is ahead, which center in the league do you want more than Horford? Howard or course. I could go with Nene. Shaq maybe. Andrew Bynum probably (but with that contract and injuries?). That is about it. I don't want Amare at the five or old man Big Z or Samuel Dalembert or even creaky knees Greg Oden. Chris Kaman? Really. The grass just isn't always greener. Horford right now is in the better half of centers in the league, and whatever his ideal position should not factor into that truth. I think it is tough to argue for a massive change in offensive scheme or a switch in position because we are worried Al Horford is going to get destroyed by Dwight Howard. Everyone gets destroyed by Dwight Howard.

Changing the vision

Hoopinion has named it. Sekou Smith has clamored for it to change. And in this cross roads off season it must be mentioned. Mike Woodson runs an offense that caters almost completely to the back court. If the offense worked for anyone, it was Joe, Bibby, and Flip. Bibby could spot of three, Joe could shoot in bunches, and Flip had the freedom to do what he wanted (which of course was shoot). With two of those guys unrestricted free agents and the third becoming so next summer, is it time to start catering to the front court? Both Josh and Al thrive in the up tempo. Josh and to some extent Al become more focused, active players when they are involved offensively. And they are young possible cornerstones for this organization.

In 2011, Al Horford is going to have plenty of offers from other teams. If nothing changes, they are going to see a leader who is averaging 13 points and 10 rebounds and have no reservations faxing an offer sheet. If the Hawks really have no desire to move Al Horford to power forward or trade him, they are either saying they plan to invest handsomely in the long-term future of Al Horford or that they plan to lose him for nothing. Seeing as how the former seems to be the only option, now may be the time to transition this Hawks team toward one where Al Horford the center can truly thrive.

The backup

Zaza Pachulia is going to have a lot of interest from other teams. Most of that will come from teams looking for a quality backup. Unless a team throws starting money and time at Zaza, I think the Hawks sit in good position to resign him.

If they don't, this is not a "well, shoot we missed him. oh well" sort of situation. The Hawks need a backup. And no Solomon Jones is not the correct answer. They need a guy who can come in and play 15-20 minutes a night. I love Zaza, but Marcin Gortat would not be a bad consolation prize. With the Magics run to the finals, they almost certainly will want to keep their core in tact which means resigning Hedo Turkoglu to a pretty big deal. That will make it very tough to resign if the Hawks put in a market value offer.

And if the Hawks draft BJ Mullens with the idea that he will back up Horford, I will simply cry.

--

I think a center-pforward tandem of Josh Smith and Horford can work well however it has to be coached right and an uptempo style has to be played...I'd love to have Gortat in here if zaza isnt resigned and I think Gortat has more potential than ZaZa...

[MaceCase]

If D'Antoni could get a frontline of Amar'e/Marion Diaw/Marion or Lee/Harringhton to succeed yet alone dominate at times then I feel absolutely confident that a frontline of Al and Smoove will be just fine. Ofcourse the key is to keep them moving rather than settling into a halfcourt so slower bigs can rest and use their size to push them around.

[TheDude]

If D'Antoni could get a frontline of Amar'e/Marion Diaw/Marion or Lee/Harringhton to succeed yet alone dominate at times then I feel absolutely confident that a frontline of Al and Smoove will be just fine. Ofcourse the key is to keep them moving rather than settling into a halfcourt so slower bigs can rest and use their size to push them around.

stoudamire confuses me...at first i see him as someone fairly close to dwight howard in size and can dominate...but then i look at his measurements and it shows he's teh same height as horford (6'10") and only 9 pounds heavier (249 to 240)..yet he just SEEMS like a much bigger dude...

Edited June 11, 2009 by DocHawk

[bird_dirt]

If D'Antoni could get a frontline of Amar'e/Marion Diaw/Marion or Lee/Harringhton to succeed yet alone dominate at times then I feel absolutely confident that a frontline of Al and Smoove will be just fine. Ofcourse the key is to keep them moving rather than settling into a halfcourt so slower bigs can rest and use their size to push them around.

can we trade our #19 pick and speedy's expiring contract for d'antoni? this team can do what his teams have done (like what i think billy knight envisioned), but they will NEVER do it under woodson. i appreciate woody's focus on defense, but you have to cater your entire gameplan (o and d) to what you have and what matchup advantages you can use against others. woody is set on his own game plan regardless of who is on the roster and he is either unwilling or unable to play up to the strengths of the entire roster of this team.

[Packfill]

The Link

Many people do not think Al Horford should be the long term answer at center for the Atlanta Hawks. And in almost anyone's estimation, Zaza Pachulia would be an excellent long term solution for the back up center role. It is an odd situation to be in. Zaza has set the example for what Hawks fans desire for a backup without there being any consensus on what the starter should look like.

In his first two years, Al Horford has been a serviceable center. He rebounds well, defends admirably, and can score efficiently, but he does none of these three things at an elite level. It is tough to contend that those shortcomings are simply the facts, the reality of Horford's ceiling as a center in the is league. Considering his usage rat, youth, and the Hawks inability to play a style that benefits him, many variable that would seemingly improve Al as a player have yet to be tested. What if he received 12-15 shots a game, what if the Hawks play more up tempo, what if Al improves that 12 foot jumper as much from year two to year three as he did from year one to year two? These are questions we do not have answers to but the more likely outcome would seem to be a better Al Horford.

It leaves the Hawks with three scenarios. Move Al to power forward, accept Horford ceiling as an about average center, or switch up the variables.

Moving Al to power forward

I say move Al to power forward with the firm belief that would mean trading Josh Smith. The Inspector does not have the shooting range or lateral quickness to stay with small forwards in this league. And with the leadership, worth ethic, and desire to get better Al Horford displays on a nightly basis, it would be tough to draw a line in the sand between building around Al or Josh and choose Josh. The sentence you would have to finish is "we are moving Al Horford to power forward because _____." The answers I come up with for that word problem do not rationalize the roster overall and risk that would occur.

He is who we thought he was

Even in this system, with this amount of touches, and this role, Al Horford is going to get better. He will learn the nuances of rebounding, knock down that jumper, slightly improve his post game. Big Al's attitude and desire to win alone will push him to be a better player. So you ask, knowing slight improvement is ahead, which center in the league do you want more than Horford? Howard or course. I could go with Nene. Shaq maybe. Andrew Bynum probably (but with that contract and injuries?). That is about it. I don't want Amare at the five or old man Big Z or Samuel Dalembert or even creaky knees Greg Oden. Chris Kaman? Really. The grass just isn't always greener. Horford right now is in the better half of centers in the league, and whatever his ideal position should not factor into that truth. I think it is tough to argue for a massive change in offensive scheme or a switch in position because we are worried Al Horford is going to get destroyed by Dwight Howard. Everyone gets destroyed by Dwight Howard.

Changing the vision

Hoopinion has named it. Sekou Smith has clamored for it to change. And in this cross roads off season it must be mentioned. Mike Woodson runs an offense that caters almost completely to the back court. If the offense worked for anyone, it was Joe, Bibby, and Flip. Bibby could spot of three, Joe could shoot in bunches, and Flip had the freedom to do what he wanted (which of course was shoot). With two of those guys unrestricted free agents and the third becoming so next summer, is it time to start catering to the front court? Both Josh and Al thrive in the up tempo. Josh and to some extent Al become more focused, active players when they are involved offensively. And they are young possible cornerstones for this organization.

In 2011, Al Horford is going to have plenty of offers from other teams. If nothing changes, they are going to see a leader who is averaging 13 points and 10 rebounds and have no reservations faxing an offer sheet. If the Hawks really have no desire to move Al Horford to power forward or trade him, they are either saying they plan to invest handsomely in the long-term future of Al Horford or that they plan to lose him for nothing. Seeing as how the former seems to be the only option, now may be the time to transition this Hawks team toward one where Al Horford the center can truly thrive.

The backup

Zaza Pachulia is going to have a lot of interest from other teams. Most of that will come from teams looking for a quality backup. Unless a team throws starting money and time at Zaza, I think the Hawks sit in good position to resign him.

If they don't, this is not a "well, shoot we missed him. oh well" sort of situation. The Hawks need a backup. And no Solomon Jones is not the correct answer. They need a guy who can come in and play 15-20 minutes a night. I love Zaza, but Marcin Gortat would not be a bad consolation prize. With the Magics run to the finals, they almost certainly will want to keep their core in tact which means resigning Hedo Turkoglu to a pretty big deal. That will make it very tough to resign if the Hawks put in a market value offer.

And if the Hawks draft BJ Mullens with the idea that he will back up Horford, I will simply cry.

--

I think a center-pforward tandem of Josh Smith and Horford can work well however it has to be coached right and an uptempo style has to be played...I'd love to have Gortat in here if zaza isnt resigned and I think Gortat has more potential than ZaZa...

The dude who wrote that missive didn't mention other young centers like Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez and Biedrins.

[Swatguy]

If D'Antoni could get a frontline of Amar'e/Marion Diaw/Marion or Lee/Harringhton to succeed yet alone dominate at times then I feel absolutely confident that a frontline of Al and Smoove will be just fine. Ofcourse the key is to keep them moving rather than settling into a halfcourt so slower bigs can rest and use their size to push them around.

What has D'Antoni won?

[MaceCase]

What has D'Antoni won?

Well we could say he was one cut man and two suspensions away from being in a finals, other than that what point are you making? There's practically three coaches currently coaching in the league right now that have won anything and only one of their teams is still playing as I'm typing this.

Get off the snide comments and realize the point I was making is that he continously rolled out undersized frontlines and averaged 50 wins doing it with his coaching style. We don't even get the ball to our bigs in the paint and use excuses that they are undersized. Play to their strentghs, go uptempo, run the pick and roll and screens and you and others will stop bitching that niether of our guys have post games. Last I checked niether did Amar'e or Marion or Diaw or Lee.

[DrReality]

If we had D'Antoni he could make it work with what we have. Big difference though between him and Woody.

[MaceCase]

If we had D'Antoni he could make it work with what we have. Big difference though between him and Woody.

That's the problem, outside of Joe the rest of the roster is better suited for an uptempo game. It doesn't take a D'antoni to realize that, any coach could realize the best way to utilize this roster is keep them moving with their speed and athleticism but Woody decide's he's just going to let Kobe Johnson go one on one while everyone watches.

[tbhawksfan]

You need only look at the runs the team pulled off at the beginning of the last two seasons to see how well they do in an up-tempo mode. Once Woodson got them under control and into his iso, half-court scheme, they became very average. No team in the NBA has the combination of Speed, size and athleticism that the Hawks do. Why the Hawks feature a half-court, back-court, three point orientated offense, I don't know. Perhaps that's why Smoove always wants to take off up court with the ball; he knows if he gives it to Bibby, they will slow it down, go into the half-court and work an outside shot.

There should be one point that shouldn't even need to be discussed anymore; Woodson is a terrible coach for the Hawks (probably for any team).

[Admin]

Well we could say he was one cut man and two suspensions away from being in a finals, other than that what point are you making? There's practically three coaches currently coaching in the league right now that have won anything and only one of their teams is still playing as I'm typing this.

Get off the snide comments and realize the point I was making is that he continously rolled out undersized frontlines and averaged 50 wins doing it with his coaching style. We don't even get the ball to our bigs in the paint and use excuses that they are undersized. Play to their strentghs, go uptempo, run the pick and roll and screens and you and others will stop bitching that niether of our guys have post games. Last I checked niether did Amar'e or Marion or Diaw or Lee.

I'm sure if we had D'Antoni he could make it work here but in case you guys have missed it we don't have a Hall of Fame PG running the show here either and that had A LOT to do with what the Suns were able to accomplish. Now, if D'Antoni turns the Knicks into a 50 win team without having a HOF PG then I'll say that it's his coaching style that made it happen or his ability to get the most out of his players but as we saw this year with the Knicks you can play to your teams strengths all day long and still lose a ton of games if you don't have enough talent in key positions.

[DrReality]

The pace of basketball we play probably has something to do with the pace at which Woody's brain cells fire.

[MaceCase]

I'm sure if we had D'Antoni he could make it work here but in case you guys have missed it we don't have a Hall of Fame PG running the show here either and that had A LOT to do with what the Suns were able to accomplish. Now, if D'Antoni turns the Knicks into a 50 win team without having a HOF PG then I'll say that it's his coaching style that made it happen or his ability to get the most out of his players but as we saw this year with the Knicks you can play to your teams strengths all day long and still lose a ton of games if you don't have enough talent in key positions.

He had the Knicks on pace for the playoffs with a 6-3 (sound familiar?) start and some definitive wins with DUHON as their starting point before the Randolph and Crawford trades. Ole Donnie Walsh wanted a high lottery pick and capspace for his Lebron bonanza and spent the whole season tradi8ng uys and mix and matching folks. The guy can coach, Nash was a product of his system not the other way around. We have a point that could run some of the same facets of his offense, in fact we had a PG that was exceptional running that facet of his offense (the pick and roll incase you dont know what I mean) yet we never utilized it. People forget he made David Lee into the leader in the league in double doubles, Duhon a career backup look like Chauncey Billups for 3/5ths the season and Nate Robinson a 5'9" guy whoop our Flip in 6th man voting. The guy can coach, Steve Nash was no HOF before he went to Pheonix, how do you all of a sudden become a HOF candidate in your 30s?

[Johnnybravo4]

Don't also forget that the Pistons won with a 6'9 center and a 6'11 power forward who is mainly a jumpshooter. Post offense if overrated. Orlando has arguably the best post offensive weapon in the playoffs and they are down 3-1 to a team with no post offense at all.

[coachx]

Don't also forget that the Pistons won with a 6'9 center and a 6'11 power forward who is mainly a jumpshooter. Post offense if overrated. Orlando has arguably the best post offensive weapon in the playoffs and they are down 3-1 to a team with no post offense at all.

Rasheed Wallace had a dominant post up game in his prime. Much better then any current Hawks player's post game. Not to mention Okur had a little back to the basket game as well that season.

Edited June 12, 2009 by coachx

[Johnnybravo4]

Rasheed Wallace had a dominant post up game in his prime. Much better then any current Hawks player's post game. Not to mention Okur had a little back to the basket game as well that season.

Please...Sheed has never seen a 3 pointer he didn't like. They won because they out hustled everyone and had a cerebral pg.

[Joker]

Rasheed Wallace had a dominant post up game in his prime. Much better then any current Hawks player's post game. Not to mention Okur had a little back to the basket game as well that season.

Very true, and Ben Wallace at that time was the Bill Russell for three seasons. That will not happen with our guys.

Edited June 15, 2009 by nbasuperstar40

[DrReality]

Please...Sheed has never seen a 3 pointer he didn't like. They won because they out hustled everyone and had a cerebral pg.

He never saw a tech. foul that he didn't like.